Can the Battle Meditation Basic Force Power be activate multiple times (by spending multiple Force Points)?

If so (as it seems), what's the point of the Battle Meditation Strength upgrade?

"Spend 2 FP to add 1 additional automatic Success to all affected characters’ checks. The Force user may
activate this multiple times."

But the basic power is:

"Spend 1 FP to add 1 automatic Success to all checks a number of engaged friendly targets up to the user's Presence make before the end of his next turn."

If this one can be activated multiple times...

It can't be, it would say so if it could.

It can't be, it would say so if it could.

This was true BEFORE the last update. In the last update:

"Each form and upgrade may be activated multiple times unless it specifically says it cannot."

Okay, but logically they wouldn't have made an upgrade to do what the base power does but require more pips if you could just trigger the base power again.

So, no.

Pretty much what whafrog said. Likely they just forgot to put in "can't be activated multiple times" after Battle Meditation's base power.

Pretty much what whafrog said. Likely they just forgot to put in "can't be activated multiple times" after Battle Meditation's base power.

Either that or there is some massive typo in the Strength upgrade

But given the power behind the current version of Battle Meditation, it would make sense that they forgot to add in the new clause with that big rules change.

So, the example in this thread is not correct:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/128698-using-force-powers-lets-see-if-i-have-this-right/

As the basic effect of Battle Mediation is currently worded and in light of the Beta Updates, you can trigger the power multiple times without needing the Strength Upgrade.

The power doesn't say otherwise, so in line with the updated "Spending Multiple FP on Basic Powers and Upgrades Sidebar" you could spend 3 FP on just the basic power to give an additional 3 successes to a number of PCs equal to the user's Presence on their skill checks before the end the user's next turn.

I do agree this makes the Strength Upgrade a lot less useful... unless the precedent set for Bind in the updates is accounted for in regards to the Duration Upgrade. If so, then that means unless the Strength Upgrade is triggered as part of the initial activation of Battle Meditation, then the affected allies would only get a single automatic success once the Duration Upgrade was activated.

The power probably could use a bit more review and possible clarification/revision before the final version of the book goes to the printers, if only to clear up the issue in regards to the Strength Upgrade.

So, the example in this thread is not correct:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/128698-using-force-powers-lets-see-if-i-have-this-right/

Based on the state of the rules as of the Final Beta Update, the example I gave is correct for the reasons noted above.

Since there's no more Beta Updates coming, it's how things stand until the Force and Destiny core rulebook gets published in summer of 2015.

I do agree this makes the Strength Upgrade a lot less useful... unless the precedent set for Bind in the updates is accounted for in regards to the Duration Upgrade. If so, then that means unless the Strength Upgrade is triggered as part of the initial activation of Battle Meditation, then the affected allies would only get a single automatic success once the Duration Upgrade was activated.

Sorry, but I'm a little lost.

- "I do agree this makes the Strength Upgrade a lot less useful"

It seems to me that the Strength Upgrade is completely useless.

Basic Power: "Spend 1 FP to add 1 automatic Success... The Force user may activate this multiple times."

VS

Strength Upgrade: "Spend 2 FP to add 1 automatic Success...The Force user may activate this multiple times."

If you spend FP for the Basic Power, you can't spend them for the Strength Upgrade too.

What am I missing?

- "unless the Strength Upgrade is triggered as part of the initial activation of Battle Meditation"

How else could the Strength Upgrade be triggered if not as part of the initial activation of Battle Meditation?

- "then the affected allies would only get a single automatic success once the Duration Upgrade was activated"

Why?

Sorry to bother, but I would like to understand how it works.

I believe what Donovan is trying to imply is that you can only up the the automatic successes (past the 1 given from the base power activation) in conjunction with the Duration upgrade if you use the Strength Upgrade. So I suppose that an example of the would be a player rolling 5 Force Points from 3 Force Dice, so they would have to choose to activate the Base Power 5 times to give 5 successes until the end of their next turn; committing the Force Dice would only let the initial Base Power's 1 success remain activated past the end of the next turn. Whereas if you spent 1 Force point to activate the Base, and 4 to activate Strength twice, then committed the Force Dice, the power would give 3 automatic successes until the end of the turn and for as long as the dice are committed.

Personally, I find that unlikely, and find it more likely that they just forgot to throw the text on locking the Base Power into only activating once.

So by this interpretation the Strength Upgrade would be useful only with the Duration Upgrade active (and useless without it).

The Strength Upgrade is normally bought just before the Duration Upgrade (unless you go all the way around it): it would be very strange to buy it without gaining any benefit until later (when you buy the Duration Upgrade).

- "Personally, I find that unlikely, and find it more likely that they just forgot to throw the text on locking the Base Power into only activating once."

Me too.

I don't think you can stack the base power on-top of each other by spending more force pips.

I think it is meant to expand the magnitude of people you can affect.

You have 6 allies, but you can only affect 3 of them with the basic power, and you got two pips. You can't give 3 of them 2 successes, but you could spend the pips to give all six of them one success on their rolls.

That's how i read it anyway.

Having the base power only be able to be activated once would make the most sense, but sadly that's not how the rules allow the power to work. Hopefully it will be addressed in the rulebook when released next year.