Hi,

I would love to see a shadows mechanic that utilizes the fact that cards are played but unknown to the opponent to an even larger extent, something like installed corp cards in Netrunner. What do you think about this:

When you play a shadows card, you don't pay gold for it. You can then 'scheme' the shadows card by playing gold tokens on those cards, basically like advancing in netrunner (maybe this can only be done in the marshalling phase or some other restriction to slow the buildup of tokens on the shadows cards).

When a shadows card is to be brought out of shadows, you can only bring those out that has enough scheming/gold tokens on them.

During an intrigue (and maybe also/instead on a mil/pow) challenge, the opponent who attacks can choose to target specific shadows cards instead of normal claim. The shadows cards can then be dealt with before they become a real threat, OR they can be traps that initiates upon being targeted with 'shadows-claim' leading to all kinds of mind games.

I think it wouldn't change the game too much and still be a very nice ways to add more bluffing and mind-games to AGoT.

Not sure I necessarily like it as it's really just advancing and rezzing.

I like the idea of it. Sort of an added facet to the game that players can engage in if they choose.

There are a couple of downsides I see with this, though. The first is that it forces additional pressure on the intrigue player: Does she bank on the card in shadows being an actual threat, or go for cards in the defender's hand? The only balancer for this is that any card played to shadows is a lost resource unless it actually bears the shadows crest. The other issue is that it limits the design space for effects that count the number of cards in shadows, since you are now eligible to put anything you want there at no cost.

Basically, I like the bluffing element it adds to the only game that matters, but it would need some tweaking to get just right.

The shadows mechanic is probably my favorite thing that 1ED ever added over the years, so I'd love to see it return in some form for 2ED. Something very close to this would actually be pretty sweet.

I think it could work and be a lot of additional fun. Obviously, my version above is crude but I am sure someone of the FFG'ers could turn this into something great. Maybe the rules could leave it open for this but not being included from the core. Also, I don't know if intrigue would be the best way to allow 'attacks' into shadows, but somehow, in order to open up for traps and bluffing later, the game would have to allow some way of interacting with the opponents shadows cards. Maybe, instead of my original suggestion, the intrigue challenge could allow a player a peak at one of the opponents shadows cards, in addition to the normal claim?

Thanks Kennon, BTW, for your great work for the community with the podcast!

The only thing I would hope is that FFG takes the chance to clean up the Shadows timing. I think the mechanic is a lot of fun, but I've always found it more confusing than necessary that it more or less creates a player action window within a framework action window. I'd really like to see the mechanic revamped to keep the good, but ditch that blemish.

I like the idea of being able to interact with opponent's shadow cards. How about if you win an intrigue challenge, in addition to normal claim, you can reveal up to X cards in your hand to choose and look at X cards in shadows that you don't control? And if you win that intrigue challenge unopposed , in addition to normal claim, you can discard X cards in your hand to choose and discard X cards in shadows that you don't control?

How about if you win an intrigue challenge, in addition to normal claim, you can reveal up to X cards in your hand to choose and look at X cards in shadows that you don't control? And if you win that intrigue challenge unopposed , in addition to normal claim, you can discard X cards in your hand to choose and discard X cards in shadows that you don't control?

I love the Shadows mechanic myself. However, I think that it would make timing significantly easier if it were treated more like an Ambush effect where you can pull the card out of the shadow as a Player Action by paying the rest of it's cost. That would then be a way to protect the card a little more but at the same time, make the timing as easy as using Ambush. It would then keep it within the spirit of what Shadows are sort of meant to do. (I doubt the vision for Shadows was to limit it to the beginning of the phase, but instead was more akin to bluffing and protecting the card from discard effects)

IIRC Nate said in an interview on Beyond the Wall that Shadows in playtesting was actually a Player Action to bring out as per ambush, but it turned out to be overpowered, so only being able to bring one card out, and that one only at the start of phase, was a nerf.

Imagine if Dragon Skull or Sorrowful Man or Pyromancer's Apprentice or god help us, the Kingsguard could all pop out as freely as Meera Reed.

(Or for that matter, how much more balanced and less confusing Meera would be if she were a standard Shadows card with the usual timing.)