We all know that the 360 HLC is a fun new tactic with a glaring weakness that's relatively easy to exploit. So how does the outrider stack up without the title?

That is a really good question actually, as I have NEVER run one without it!

I can tell you the two attack dice is not very attractive to me, having had a taste of 4 with the HLC. That would really make this ship feel more mid to low tier actually with so very little firepower.

Now, Dash, even without the HLC + Outrider title would still be amazing, just not nearly as hard hitting and perhaps not worth the points. Like a big A-Wing... Insanely maneuverable but doesn't have the punch to do anything with it.

I don't think Outrider HLC is going to be so omnipresent as it might seem at first. Not when the dust settles.

Eaden Vrill is useless with the title, for one.

Well it has 1 PS and 1 Agility over a Outer Rim Smuggler, otherwise the stats are about the same. Both have 2 attack and 10 HP but the 2400 has 5 hull 5 shield vs 6 hull 4 shield. It can carry 1 less crew, but has the barrel roll action.

All for 3 points more. So i'd say all in all, it's every bit as good as the ORS, which isn't used a ton but was seen as effective at one point.

We all know that the 360 HLC is a fun new tactic with a glaring weakness that's relatively easy to exploit. So how does the outrider stack up without the title?

Personally, I think the only pilot that can handle the Doughnut is Dash. The others are too low in PS to barrel-roll out of the way, and also can't BR over asteroids.

Leebo and ESPECIALLY Eaden Vrill both enjoy having the penumbra of damage surrounding their actual firing arc, and in particular having a Range 1 attack of 3 dice (4 for Eaden).

How does vrill get 4 dice at range one?

The reason I asked is because I've beaten a fat dash with wedge and Corran. X wings are largely considered low maneuverability, and it wasn't all that difficult to stay in range one with either ship.

And for 13 points, all by itself, you could buy 4 more health via a bandit.

I don't get where this community sits on upgrades. 3 months ago 13 upgrade points was a touch too many. Now it's an auto include.

3 months ago 13 upgrade points was a touch too many. Now it's an auto include.

That's largely due to the Z-95 coming out.

Vrill gets one extra attack die when shooting at someone who has stress. So shots at R3 and R2 go from two to three attack dice and R1 shots go from three attack dice to four.

Jan makes Vrill 5 dice, as well. Vrill also isn't necessarily taking any actions to bolster that number. Experimental Interface and Lando could get him some focus, evade, and a target lock. He might throw fewer dice than the donut but I think his damage would be more consistent.

and heavy laser cannons go from 4 to 5!!!

ouch!!!

5 die turret sounds pretty enticing.

and heavy laser cannons go from 4 to 5!!!

ouch!!!

5 die turret sounds pretty enticing.

Negative, Vrill's card states "When performing a Primary Attack..." The HLC, though it replaces the main turret, is not a Primary attack.

Side note, Gunner does not function on the Outrider because you no longer have a Primary attack.

You can still take a HLC, but you just don't get it as a turret. Aren't these ships pretty manueverable? I could see a ship take an HLC without the title. Of course.....it's no where near as worthy as with the title.

So, I don't think anyone will take a non Outrider ship.

Outside of the Vassal TCO tournament we have had very little data gathered on our wave 5 friends. The top 16 of the TCO was littered with VT-49's and YT-2400's. That speaks volumes to the effectiveness of these ships in the newly forming meta. I personally love the new meta and where it's heading. The Super Dash builds are very strong and should not be so easily dismissed because of this donut hole. I have had many games where Dash was killed out right and never even got shot at. If you can get the jump on him you stand a good chance of taking him out, slip once and it will likely be lights out for you.

I have tried a few variations of the YT-2400 with no title and had moderate success with it. This is largely due to the fantastic dial this ship has. Outside the 5 forward he has access to all the moves. The hard 1 turn is such a big deal and the only red he has is the Kturn. As the meta shapes we should see non-outrider 2400's pop in here and there but will never be as popular as the Super Dash builds we are already seeing. In a few short months we will have wave 6 in the mix and everything will change once again, and at that point your guess is as good as mine.

I would just go back to wave 4 and run the falcon at that point

You can still take a HLC, but you just don't get it as a turret. Aren't these ships pretty manueverable? I could see a ship take an HLC without the title. Of course.....it's no where near as worthy as with the title.

So, I don't think anyone will take a non Outrider ship.

I have yet to fly the 2400, but its got a great dial (and that barrel roll!). I really don't think it would be hard to keep targets in the front arc with a HLC. Now against Interceptors or Phantoms, you are going to be in trouble. That 2 dice insurance you get with the turret isn't going to do much to them.

I agree with the comments that the dial can make the ship worthwhile.

Last night I flew:

2x Wild Space Fringers

> HLCs

> Recon Specialists

1x Prototype

> Proton Rockets

I don't think the "joust" slang has ever applied to a ship more than it does to an HLC Fringer. They literally want to line up, take a pass with the HLC, then turn around and do it all over again. The cool thing is that the turret, while weak, allows you to get some damage in on the stages of the joust where you end up either beside or behind your targets. In my game I probably did as much damage chipping away with the turret as I did with the big HLC runs.

The amazing maneuverability of the 2400 plus the barrel roll means you usually have somewhere sneaky to go to dodge arcs.

The major problems with the build are that it's difficult to get more than two consecutive rounds of HLC fire off, and almost impossible against a single target. And they're turret bait, since any time you're dodging and taking your 2-dice turret potshots against a 3 or 4 dice turret, you're going to lose the battle of attrition. Maneuverable high-PS ships will pose a threat, since they're moving after you.

I plan to try the same build with Engine Upgrades and a Bandit wingman instead of the Prototype. The boost move will really help expedite the repositioning/turning around.

So, generally, I think the Fringer can do ok against mid-tier lists, but doesn't really have much to offer against some of the power builds, like Han, Phantoms, Decimators, etc.

You can still take a HLC, but you just don't get it as a turret. Aren't these ships pretty manueverable? I could see a ship take an HLC without the title. Of course.....it's no where near as worthy as with the title.

So, I don't think anyone will take a non Outrider ship.

I think that on anyone but Vrill the HLC is mandatory, but not Outrider!

The YT-2400 has an excellent dial even against small ships. It also has access to leebo crew if you dont have him as pilot, or EU. I would consider the ship with HLC and no Outrider as very competitive. Sure you can get cheaper HLCs but with the turret as backup, crew options and nice durability, i will consider it especially for dash. Keeps him cheaper and with his ability he will get arcs for his HLC no one else could hope to get. Might even run VI especially for that reason on him.

The YT-2400 is highly maneuverable and could easily use the HLC without a turret mount. The Turret then acts as a nice "deterrent" to those sneaking behind you.

With the correct crew and upgrades, it could be very nasty.

With the correct crew and upgrades, it could be very nasty.

At the very least it might be interesting to try to run it as a 'buzzsaw' type ship.

Wave 6 adds two more cannon options for the YT-2400 to choose from.

I just added the PS2 YT-2400 + HLC to my MathWing thread. It's OK, but not earth shattering. It pairs well with 58 Dash, because you can aim the PS2 HLC at whatever is chasing Dash - see Theorists TCO replays as an example.

The YT-2400 is highly maneuverable and could easily use the HLC without a turret mount. The Turret then acts as a nice "deterrent" to those sneaking behind you.

With the correct crew and upgrades, it could be very nasty.

Just an example although i am sure you could come up with better!

YT-3700 "HANDASH"

100 points

PILOTS

Han Solo (54)

YT-1300 (46), Predator (3), C-3PO (3), Intelligence Agent (1), Millenium Falcon (1)

Dash Rendar (46)

YT-2400 Freighter (36), Veteran Instincts (1), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), "Leebo" (2)

I haven't run it yet, but I have done a lot of experimenting with the ORS. and it has a 360 degree firing arc, but only shoots 2 attack dice. It is a lot less punishing that Han with his three attack dice and a gunner. In fact I the flaw that I found was that it was too easy to kill not that it didn't do enough damage.

The YT-2400 is going to be a lot harder to kill. I am willing to bet that it will soon be known as the hardest ship in the game to kill.

I will say that when you only have 2 attack dice then the need for something else to boost your attack. This can be a simple as making sure you always get your action. This is where Dash comes in. Dash can fly willy nilly through asteroids and never lose his action.

Outside of the Vassal TCO tournament we have had very little data gathered on our wave 5 friends. The top 16 of the TCO was littered with VT-49's and YT-2400's. That speaks volumes to the effectiveness of these ships in the newly forming meta. I personally love the new meta and where it's heading. The Super Dash builds are very strong and should not be so easily dismissed because of this donut hole. I have had many games where Dash was killed out right and never even got shot at. If you can get the jump on him you stand a good chance of taking him out, slip once and it will likely be lights out for you.

So do you think Ion Pulse Missiles might be a good buy to counter YT-2400's? I don't see them very often, but if maintaining control of the 2400 is critical, then getting an early Ion on it would be extremely effective at knocking him out in the first few rounds.