Sure it works but why would you?

You can only use it once per round, and your odds of guessing right with 2 dice is not as good as with 1 die, yet they yield the same result, adding 1 evade result. So just wait until you're attacked to use 3PO for your better odds...

If you guess 0 in 1 dice throw, that's 5/8=0.625

If you guess 1 in a 2 dice throw, that's 0.469, which is not bad

What I am interested is the following scenario:

Han Solo (46)

Predator (3)

Concussion Missiles (4)

C-3PO (3)

Lando Calrissian (3)

Experimental Interface (3)

Millennium Falcon (1)

Kyle Katarn (21)

Wingman (2)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Jan Ors (2)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Moldy Crow (3)

Total: 100

Some points are just filler, but the idea is this:

Han evades, then rolls for Lando, guesses 2, gets 2, derives 3 more evades, then kyle gives him a focus, which he turns with Jan into an evade, that's 5 evades!

Another variant is to evade, then lando with guessing 1, you have 39% chance of having 2 evades (1 from Kyle), 61% chance of having 4 evades, sometimes with an extra focus.

I'm not sold about this being any better than normal C3PO, but this is super fun and a genius combo nonetheless! Next up, R5-K6 + C3PO = FCS

BTW where does it say which ship makes the roll? Who is "you"? Isn't "you" the player? Are we 100% sure that C3PO is constrained to the same ship? Or is it just implied?

Nope Fat Falcons are not getting any fatter this Holiday Season, we are putting it on a diet. Here is how.

You know who can shut down 3PO on a falcon, Wedge as he removes the evade dice by reducing the falcon 0 agility, so range 1 and 2 means no dice rolled means no C-3PO. Also put Test Pilot + Intimidation on Arvel and as so as you bump into the falcon that's 3 dice that negates C-3PO for Arvel and all his friends.

You gotta read the OP, man.

This use of C-3PO is in the activation phase, triggered by the Lando crew card (which instructs you to roll 2 defense dice, regardless of your agility). Outmaneuver and Wedge only wish they could stop it. Arvel can, if he blocks. Have fun using Arvel, I bet he's super viable and really easy to block with multiple turns in a row.

What's less useful than using C-3PO like this as compared to during the attack is you have two dice being rolled, so your most probable outcome is one evade- but if you guess that, there's a real and reasonable probability of blanking. C-3PO's main aggravation is that guessing zero ensures that you got an evade for the attack he was used on; guessing zero with Lando keeps the safety element but also feels a lot less useful because it's less probable.

BTW where does it say which ship makes the roll? Who is "you"? Isn't "you" the player? Are we 100% sure that C3PO is constrained to the same ship? Or is it just implied?

It looks nice and could surprise an opponent, but I'm still more scared of Han with a gunner.

The question is, for 3 points, how many time will 3P0 really come into play when used with Lando? Would you really try for the 1 evade or take it as a safety net and still predict 0?

It looks nice and could surprise an opponent, but I'm still more scared of Han with a gunner.

The question is, for 3 points, how many time will 3P0 really come into play when used with Lando? Would you really try for the 1 evade or take it as a safety net and still predict 0?

39% 0 evades

46.9% 1 evade

14% 2 evades

I'd still go for the 1 evade guess, especially if I'm already covered with 2 existing evades (check my post higher up).

nvm

Sure it works but why would you?

You can only use it once per round, and your odds of guessing right with 2 dice is not as good as with 1 die, yet they yield the same result, adding 1 evade result. So just wait until you're attacked to use 3PO for your better odds...

They don't quite have the same effect actually. 3/8ths of the time 3PO gives you nothing if you're using it against an attack as you roll 1 anyway. If you use him with Lando, you could both get the evade token and still roll a natural evade on his first attack.

Simply: 3PO guarantees one and only one evade if used on an attack. Used with Lando, you could get 2 evades out of him (one from the guess, and another on the defense roll when attacked).

Chances of getting 0 evades with Lando: 39%

Chances of getting 1 evade with Lando: 23%

Chances of getting 2 evades with Lando: 14%

None of these odds are better than the defense roll which has a 62.5% chance of not getting 0 evade results and a 37.5% chance of getting 1 evade result.

If you're talking about guaranteeing yourself an evade with Lando by guessing 0 and then hoping you roll and evade on your defense the difference in probability is only 1.5%.

I would not pursue such a combo for a simpler reason: the plan either works beautifully or fails miserably during the activation phase (unlike the standard use of C3PO which takes place during the combat phase). Therefore, if Lando's luck fails miserably, the opponent knows that he's hitting a defenseless Falcon. If Lando's luck holds then the opponent knows (in advance) that attacking it is useless, so he can target other ships instead (or just keep his token for defense).

That's how one of my games against a YT-2400 with Lando turned out recently.

Sure it works but why would you?

You can only use it once per round, and your odds of guessing right with 2 dice is not as good as with 1 die, yet they yield the same result, adding 1 evade result. So just wait until you're attacked to use 3PO for your better odds...

They don't quite have the same effect actually. 3/8ths of the time 3PO gives you nothing if you're using it against an attack as you roll 1 anyway. If you use him with Lando, you could both get the evade token and still roll a natural evade on his first attack.

Simply: 3PO guarantees one and only one evade if used on an attack. Used with Lando, you could get 2 evades out of him (one from the guess, and another on the defense roll when attacked).

I'm not seeing how you can get two evades out of 3PO. You can only use his ability once per round. Using him with Lando is not all that better than using him with your defense roll. The odds of you guessing correctly on the defense roll are simpler than guessing with Lando's two dice. Trying to guess correctly with Lando and then hoping you roll an evade on your defense roll is not much better than just being risky and guessing a result of one on your defense roll.

Chances of getting 0 evades with Lando: 39%

Chances of getting 1 evade with Lando: 23%

Chances of getting 2 evades with Lando: 14%

...for a grand total of 76% of rolling 0, 1, or 2 evades? What happens to the dice the other 24% of the time?

There seems to be a massive amount of misinformation and broken logic going on in this thread. I want to clear a few things up a bit. People are putting things in terms of "guaranteed evades" etc and it is mucking up how C-3PO works.

C-3PO's ability either succeeds or fails once per round. So you either get his evade or you don't.

If he succeeds during Lando's roll he provides an evade token, which can be spent as an extra evade result during an attack

If he succeeds during an attack he provides an evade result (identical to if you had used an evade token).

We can see based on the above, that the end result of what 3PO provides is the same regardless of when he is triggered. He can only ever provide 1 evade result each round. So, to get the best bang for your buck, you need him to succeed as often as possible. To do this, you need to trigger him when you have the best chance of being right.

Best odds while rolling 1 defense die:

Guess 0 results: 62% chance of being right.

Best odds while rolling 2 defense dice:

Guess 1 result: 46% chance of being right.

So, based on this information if you trigger 3PO during an attack (assuming you are rolling 1 die) you have a 62% chance of succeeding. If you trigger during Lando's your best odds are only 46% that you will succeed. When you trigger him is irrelevant. There is no difference when it comes to evades between having 2 evade tokens and rolling 0 evades and having 1 evade token and rolling 1 evade.

Sure it works but why would you?

You can only use it once per round, and your odds of guessing right with 2 dice is not as good as with 1 die, yet they yield the same result, adding 1 evade result. So just wait until you're attacked to use 3PO for your better odds...

They don't quite have the same effect actually. 3/8ths of the time 3PO gives you nothing if you're using it against an attack as you roll 1 anyway. If you use him with Lando, you could both get the evade token and still roll a natural evade on his first attack.

Simply: 3PO guarantees one and only one evade if used on an attack. Used with Lando, you could get 2 evades out of him (one from the guess, and another on the defense roll when attacked).

I'm not seeing how you can get two evades out of 3PO. You can only use his ability once per round. Using him with Lando is not all that better than using him with your defense roll. The odds of you guessing correctly on the defense roll are simpler than guessing with Lando's two dice. Trying to guess correctly with Lando and then hoping you roll an evade on your defense roll is not much better than just being risky and guessing a result of one on your defense roll.

Chances of getting 0 evades with Lando: 39%

Chances of getting 1 evade with Lando: 23%

Chances of getting 2 evades with Lando: 14%

None of these odds are better than the defense roll which has a 62.5% chance of not getting 0 evade results and a 37.5% chance of getting 1 evade result.

If you're talking about guaranteeing yourself an evade with Lando by guessing 0 and then hoping you roll and evade on your defense the difference in probability is only 1.5%.

Of course, but where's the fun in that? I would like to do this for the singular moment of seeing my opponent's face when I have 5 evade tokens.

People are putting things in terms of "guaranteed evades" etc and it is mucking up how C-3PO works.

You're right. In terms of actual effect, using C-3PO has the same basic effect no matter when you use him. He can provide at most 1 extra Evade result either way.

The question is somewhat physiological. Do you want that action you took with Lando to always net you one evade. Or do you want the best return on the points spent for C-3PO. Either way it's the same result, you may or may not get an evade result from C-3PO.

There seems to be a massive amount of misinformation and broken logic going on in this thread. I want to clear a few things up a bit. People are putting things in terms of "guaranteed evades" etc and it is mucking up how C-3PO works.

C-3PO's ability either succeeds or fails once per round. So you either get his evade or you don't.

If he succeeds during Lando's roll he provides an evade token, which can be spent as an extra evade result during an attack

If he succeeds during an attack he provides an evade result (identical to if you had used an evade token).

We can see based on the above, that the end result of what 3PO provides is the same regardless of when he is triggered. He can only ever provide 1 evade result each round. So, to get the best bang for your buck, you need him to succeed as often as possible. To do this, you need to trigger him when you have the best chance of being right.

Best odds while rolling 1 defense die:

Guess 0 results: 62% chance of being right.

Best odds while rolling 2 defense dice:

Guess 1 result: 46% chance of being right.

So, based on this information if you trigger 3PO during an attack (assuming you are rolling 1 die) you have a 62% chance of succeeding. If you trigger during Lando's your best odds are only 46% that you will succeed. When you trigger him is irrelevant. There is no difference when it comes to evades between having 2 evade tokens and rolling 0 evades and having 1 evade token and rolling 1 evade.

There are situations where rolling on Lando is better:

* When playing 1v1 against Wedge or an Outmaneuver-equipped ship

* When you know you're going to defend at range 3 with an obstructed shot (also 1v1, or if all shots are the same), then Lando with guessing 1 is better than trying to guess the number of evades when you roll 3 dice.

But you are of course correct, in that most of the times you will get better results from using C3PO on pure defense dice, and the situations where you won't are just the ones where it makes more sense to guess the result of 2 dice.

post fail

There seems to be a massive amount of misinformation and broken logic going on in this thread. I want to clear a few things up a bit. People are putting things in terms of "guaranteed evades" etc and it is mucking up how C-3PO works.

C-3PO's ability either succeeds or fails once per round. So you either get his evade or you don't.

If he succeeds during Lando's roll he provides an evade token, which can be spent as an extra evade result during an attack

If he succeeds during an attack he provides an evade result (identical to if you had used an evade token).

We can see based on the above, that the end result of what 3PO provides is the same regardless of when he is triggered. He can only ever provide 1 evade result each round. So, to get the best bang for your buck, you need him to succeed as often as possible. To do this, you need to trigger him when you have the best chance of being right.

Best odds while rolling 1 defense die:

Guess 0 results: 62% chance of being right.

Best odds while rolling 2 defense dice:

Guess 1 result: 46% chance of being right.

So, based on this information if you trigger 3PO during an attack (assuming you are rolling 1 die) you have a 62% chance of succeeding. If you trigger during Lando's your best odds are only 46% that you will succeed. When you trigger him is irrelevant. There is no difference when it comes to evades between having 2 evade tokens and rolling 0 evades and having 1 evade token and rolling 1 evade.

There are situations where rolling on Lando is better:

* When playing 1v1 against Wedge or an Outmaneuver-equipped ship

* When you know you're going to defend at range 3 with an obstructed shot (also 1v1, or if all shots are the same), then Lando with guessing 1 is better than trying to guess the number of evades when you roll 3 dice.

But you are of course correct, in that most of the times you will get better results from using C3PO on pure defense dice, and the situations where you won't are just the ones where it makes more sense to guess the result of 2 dice.

So basically C3PO can provide insurance that when you use Lando's action you don't roll double blanks. But you are still paying 6 points for an action that you don't quite control. You may get two evade, you may get focuses, you may get one of each, but you are more likely to get evades that you are focuses.

Compare this to Recon Spec

I would usually prefer 2 focuses to 2 evades.

I have complete control over what I get

Recon Spec cost 3 points rather than 6 points

recon spec uses fewer crew slots.

I think I would prefer a Recon Spec to Lando+C3PO

This discussion makes me somewhat sad. Reminds me far too much of beardy 40K rules lawyers discussing RAW vs RAI. I thought I left those benighted days behind me on WarSeer.

So basically C3PO can provide insurance that when you use Lando's action you don't roll double blanks.

Or double <focus> or some other combo of results that don't include a <evade> result. You could for example end up with 2 Focus and 1 Evade using Lando + C-3PO.

Reminds me far too much of beardy 40K rules lawyers discussing RAW vs RAI.

That's a rather condescending thing to say. It's a completely legit combo, and doesn't require any sort of rules lawyering or anything.

That's a rather condescending thing to say. It's a completely legit combo, and doesn't require any sort of rules lawyering or anything.

Oh, I didn't say it wasn't legit.

As far as I was awear c3po gives an evade result to a die roll not an evade token and it states that in the in the auto blaster section as well that it's an evade result. Since you are in the activation phase you have nothing to use that evade result on.

Since you are in the activation phase you have nothing to use that evade result on.

Lando uses it. He doesn't care where the results comes from, only what results are there after you roll the dice.

I guess you could headcanon it as Lando having an argument with C3PO about the merits of a particular maneuver...

Reminds me far too much of beardy 40K rules lawyers discussing RAW vs RAI.

That's a rather condescending thing to say. It's a completely legit combo, and doesn't require any sort of rules lawyering or anything.

Yup. The question is not if it is legal or not, but if it is worth it or not.

I personally don't think it is. There is still 39% per turn that you won't get an evade and paid for 3P0 for nothing. It's too unreliable. Just guess 0 on your first evade roll and be done with it. And yes, there is circonstances that you won,t have a die to roll (Wedge, Outmaneuver), but there will also be situations where your evade token won't be useful (Jax, Homing missiles)

And pairing the Falcon with a Kyle+Jan HWK just so you can get even more evade is overkill and leaves you with only 4 damage max per turn. If I were to face this team, I would try to get rid of kyle asap (which should not be that hard since the HWK is easy to pin down and doesn't have a lot of HP) then focus the falcon down which should also not be that hard since it is stuck doing green maneuver each turn, can't boost to reposition and doesn't have gunner to make up for the eventual bad roll.

And yes, there is circonstances that you won,t have a die to roll (Wedge, Outmaneuver), but there will also be situations where your evade token won't be useful (Jax, Homing missiles)

The whole point of 3PO is the same as Gunner, it's an insurance policy. You use him to make sure you get at least one evade per turn.

How you use him, doesn't really change anything. You use him when being attacked or when using Lando, the result is the same. It's just a question of the odds of him actually providing a net evade or not.

Using him without Lando, you still have a chance of never getting a net evade out of him.