Chestnuts roasting on a flamewar

It's like watching landwhales dance. Horrifying, clumsy, and you wish you could look away but you can't.

Chestnuts roasting on a flamewar

Now you've got me feeling all xmasy inside!! :-)

@Shake-A-Noodle (because it’s FUNNY!)

First, lets be clear! You called me out! So please don’t try to play the, “I’m Innocent Card.”

Actually the title, “Shake-A-Noodle”, doesn’t really fall under name-calling. It falls under puns.

Pun

The pun, also called paronomasia, is a form of word play that suggests two or more meanings, by exploiting multiple meanings of words, or of similar-sounding words, for an intended HUMOROUS or rhetorical effect. These ambiguities can arise from the intentional use of homophonic, homographic, metonymic, or metaphorical language.

I believe in proving what I state.

1) If you want proof that your opinion on this idea is the minority, all you have to do is go back and reread all the post of the subject. The evidence is there! And neither you or I can Change it!

2) As for the Variant Idea, I will prove you wrong. Play test the idea. (I have! It didn't unbalance anything!) You want me to prove my idea to you, Play test it. That’s Your proof! Play test the idea, and you will find that your arguments are all wrong. (I suggested you do this awhile back, but I see you haven’t accepted My challenge.) If you didn't play test the idea, then your opinion doesn't have any facts to back it up. I have play tested the idea, and I have proven you comments wrong. So if you want Me to prove You wrong, then you are going to have to play test it, because that is the only way to prove it, one way or the other! When it comes down to it, Proof over Opinion.

This is the reason for this “Dispute”, I will not except an opinion when I have facts that prove other wise.

You are making the claim and the burden of proof is on you. I will go count if you provide the link to the old threads...though as I recall there wasn't much support claiming your idea was a good one...though now that you have changed the criteria to simply "interesting" who really knows. I am still pretty **** certain the support isn't as strong as strong as you think. All of the criticism you received was fair and should have been used to work with your idea

You are correct I haven't playtested your idea. YOU HAVE STILL FAILED TO PROVIDE POINT COSTS!!! Am I supposed to make up my own? Give them whatever slot I want for free? You straight up said you had no idea what these costs should be and left the onus on the designers to figure that out. How did you playtest without set point costs?

I don't have the time to playtest a half baked unfinished idea. Nor does my gaming group have any interest in your little variation. Show me these "facts" you claim to have. Battle reports ships used points spent maybe storyline of the battle. You have made this claim before and never showed said facts to the rest of us. Near as I can tell you have pulled it from your nether regions.

Edit to add here:

So let me get this straight. Not only can you not provide me with solid "facts" (your claim that it worked well and my criticisms are for naught) but you then expect ME to provide you with the very "facts" you have yet to produce? I don't think so...and as I said earlier...without points costs I can't even try.

End edit.

I wasn't playing innocent with you either...I am simply trying to stay civil and on task. You are the one calling me names and using behind "oh it's a pin and fun"...whatever dude. Stop acting like a a child and confront the criticism...both of us know you won't. More proof in my mind of the inferiority of your "super awesome" idea.

I am curious to hear from the "vast majority" out there as well who thought this was a good, it Nevermind I'll allow him to change the criteria, interesting idea. What did you like? Why do you think this will work? Did you experience balance issues or concerns during your playtesting. I guess I will have to call upon you to provide the facts that thus super awesome poster is unable to provide me.

I look forward to your responses.

And it appears I hit the wrong button...quoted myself (adding in mg edit) instead of hitting the edit button!!

Sorry everyone...sucks posting on this forum from a mobile phone.

You may now continue enjoying your popcorn and chestnuts...I also have delicious pestachio milkshakes for anyone interested.

I have no idea what's going on, but it's not a healthy exchange of ideas. Are you guys even talking about the original post? I can't tell.

I have no idea what's going on, but it's not a healthy exchange of ideas. Are you guys even talking about the original post? I can't tell.

Not exactly though it does fall in line with hour original post a bit...apologies for derailing your thread. I have been posting from my phone all day thus starting a new thread would be difficult until I get home.

There isn't anything unhealthy about this exchange. Here we have an amateur designer trying to show us why his idea is worth considering. He and I have had this discussion before and it was never settled for the reasons you can see. I'll start up a new thread when I get home...if he doesn't do it before me which he is welcome go do.

It's settled then. Light saber hilts are cool.

It's settled then. Light saber hilts are cool.

And FFG will never update the damage deck or add prequel ships.

I would like an expanded damage deck.

HalfBaked idea, How would you know. You don’t. What’s the matter, afraid you will be wrong if you actually play tested the idea. I hear a lot of words, but I see no action. All your blah blah is just an excuse no to find out if your wrong.

Do I have battle reports, well no I don’t. But Buddy, You want battle reports, I give you battle reports. And remember you asked for it. So you best not complain about it. But you will, because that’s what you do.

So that every one knows what is going on, and can come up with their own conclusion. Don’t take my word for it, try it your self.

The variant idea basically states, that there are more than one model of the spacecraft. So take any ship in the X-Wing game, and change out some of the upgrade in the upgrade bar (Maximum two), or add an extra modification slot. This cost nothing, but you must pay to fill the upgrade or modification.

Example 1.

Tie fighter that has two modification “slots”

I will use a Black Squadron Pilot (14) and add a Targeting Computer (2) and a Hull Upgrade (3), the Black Squadron pilot has an “Elite Upgrade” so I will add Veteran Instincts (1) ship cost equals (20).

Example 2.

Luke Skywalker (28) I will change out the Torpedo Upgrade for a Missile Upgrade and add a Concussion Missile (4), and add R2D2 (4). Cost 36.

That’s it, Test it your self.

I have no idea what's going on, but it's not a healthy exchange of ideas. Are you guys even talking about the original post? I can't tell.

Not exactly though it does fall in line with hour original post a bit...apologies for derailing your thread. I have been posting from my phone all day thus starting a new thread would be difficult until I get home.

There isn't anything unhealthy about this exchange. Here we have an amateur designer trying to show us why his idea is worth considering. He and I have had this discussion before and it was never settled for the reasons you can see. I'll start up a new thread when I get home...if he doesn't do it before me which he is welcome go do.

So I take it your ARE a game designer. AND you are GETTING paid to Design Games. Please accept my apologies.

My apologies to the original poster. Unfortunately, for some reason I was called out for a post I made 4 months ago.

My apologies to the original poster. Unfortunately, for some reason I was called out for a post I made 4 months ago.

This spat is 4 months old?

I'll take that milkshake. I need something comforting after all this silliness I've just witnessed.

My apologies to the original poster. Unfortunately, for some reason I was called out for a post I made 4 months ago.

This spat is 4 months old?

I guess. He really doesn't like my idea, but every one who tried it thought it was interesting and fun.

Once again you have my apologies.

He is correct. I dont like his idea as many of you can very well see. His personal attacks and general ignorance of pretty much everything I said grinded my gears. I can go search the old threads if any one is interested...though I doubt any of you are. I love debating people...especially people I vehemently disagree with. I tend to learn things...I dont feel as if I learned anything here. As most of you well know when I am wrong I am more than happy to admit it and eat my hat, as anyone from the 3rd faction threads can attest to.

I called it up because his idea combined with his attitude about it made it the worst idea suggested in this forum, in my opinion. His idea could have been palatable 4 months ago had he actually engaged me back then. I might have even actually tried his idea out back then...he told me to go playtest but never gave me solid rules or pts values. By that point he had already informed me that he wasnt listening to anything I said. Since then, I have neither the time nor inclination to even attempt to prove his points for him. I have literally no reason to. He can go out and create his own facts...I look forward to seeing them as well as any other Battle Reports done by people utilizing his rules. I also encourage people to think of the most off the wall combinations they can and try to break this...by finding solid facts with regard to his flaws he should be able to improve on his idea. I guess what I am saying is keep me posted...I will eat my hat if I am proven incorrect. But its going to take many games and many improvements...I look forward to seeing if this will happen. Maybe once the mathwingers are able to calculate the actual value of these upgrade slots (as I know they are trying to do) we can get a better picture of the drastic changes this would bring if adopted.

I am glad to see progress was made at least in that he finally has answered one of my main questions (ie the cost) and gone more into detail with how his idea works...and its a far cry from what i saw only yesterday about bombers being able to shoot behind them a la the slave one or his EW bomber. Perhaps I got confused and lumped them into the same idea? Thats what I recall it being advertised as back then. The other still hasnt been addressed, the balance issues I see cropping up both now and in the future...and I dont expect him to address it.

EDIT to add:

It was suggested that his idea could work as a title...he resoundingly rejected that idea as well. Even though it could have very well been worked easily into the game that way.

End EDIT.

I still dont like it as now i can give any a wing/hawk/y wing accuracy corrector for little to no cost, plus it completely nullifies the Royal Guard title (which is one of the primary reasons I dont think it will ever be adopted officially in its current form.) It could probably also be used w PTL to give any ship w boost or BR the manuverability of a TIE Int and retain the ability to take autothrusters. I could be wrong on that as I dont fully recall the auto thruster but I think all you needed was the ability to boost...which EU could give you. Thats just what I can think of off the top of my head. But as I said its pretty much irrelevant now as we wont see eye to eye on this.

I am willing to call it off here...I am confident his idea will be house rule for some but go no further. He is, of course, welcome to disagree. And do yourself a favor next time you debate DK. Stick to the topic...personal attacks, name calling, and general ignorance of your opponents arguments do a disservice to your argument. I never insinuated I was a game designer, though I have had the opportunity to play with them. I wouldn't want to be...too many critical people like myself to make happy.

EDIT to clarify:

I played Resident Evil the Deck Building Game several times with the games creator. Not Xwing and its devs.

End EDIT

Ill bury the hatchet on this debate if you want...but the next time I would come up with an opinion different from yours I would ask that you actually engage me like an adult. Based on your sig...at least we seem to be on the same side of this war...

@LeoHowler

SHAKE POWER ACTIVATE!!