I wonder if the OP is a x-wing designer who doesn't like people complaining about his work.

Or not. In either case, he wins today's Hypocracy Award for posting a complaint about complaints. Oh the Irony!

I'm not. (In an interview one of them said FFG has a rule against employees posting, but not reading.) My gripe is very specific.

Aw to bad, but i guess it's for the better.

But people are gonna overanalyse and complain and discus and rant, etc. about the stuff they like. It's just human nature.

And you have a point that this might get people to think something is bad if a lot of people complain about something. But they should learn to draw their own conclusions and not take what people say on a forum at face value. Not everything on here is gospel truth. (yes, that also counts for this post!)

But complaining about threads will end in mayhem and parody threads and the admins bringing out the locks again.

It's as much my forum as it is yours and theirs. I'm expressing what I'd like to see of it.

And I like to see other forum member's ideas about fixes to things i feel don't work right.

It's as much my forum as it is yours, and theirs. I'm expressing what I'd like to see of it.

You see what i did there?

I'm really not trying to mock you but your argument is ridiculous.

Most of these threads that you say "annoy" you have titles that clearly state what they're about.

JUTS. DON'T. CLICK. ON. THEM. Show some self control if they bother you that much. Geez.

No, they clearly say some ship is broken or some mechanic is broken, and that misleads new players into believing a falsehood. Share your house rule if that's what you want to do and clearly state so in the title, but JUTS DON'T MISINFORM.

Dealing with you makes my head hurt. You've now switched to saying that we're scaring off new players? You're just pissy people are holding opinions different from yours and you don't like it and if you aren't happy THEN NOBODY IS HAPPY.

Your own thread title is misinformation, as we clearly aren't X-wing Miniatures designers, they aren't even allowed to post. As a proponent of Thread Title Accuracy you should had labeled it "Why are we trying to act like X-wing Miniatures Designers? Stop it because i do not like it."

How can we be more inclusive towards x-wing designers?

*Runs away real fast*

You a$$hat

How can we be more inclusive towards x-wing designers?

*Runs away real fast*

Is that regular people real fast, or just a respectable pace for a nerd?

Well thats my bit of trolling done for tonight.

But on a serious note- Everybody: Don't let people stop you from disccusing your hobby! And it's okay to disagree with other people. Just be civil aboiut it and have fun.

Ah that's my good deed PSA message done for today.Now I'm off to complain about teh lightsaber from ep VII.

How can we be more inclusive towards x-wing designers?

*Runs away real fast*

Is that regular people real fast, or just a respectable pace for a nerd?

This fast

It's as much my forum as it is yours and theirs. I'm expressing what I'd like to see of it.

And I like to see other forum member's ideas about fixes to things i feel don't work right.

It's as much my forum as it is yours, and theirs. I'm expressing what I'd like to see of it.

You see what i did there?

I'm really not trying to mock you but your argument is ridiculous.

Most of these threads that you say "annoy" you have titles that clearly state what they're about.

JUTS. DON'T. CLICK. ON. THEM. Show some self control if they bother you that much. Geez.

No, they clearly say some ship is broken or some mechanic is broken, and that misleads new players into believing a falsehood. Share your house rule if that's what you want to do and clearly state so in the title, but JUTS DON'T MISINFORM.

Dealing with you makes my head hurt. You've now switched to saying that we're scaring off new players? You're just pissy people are holding opinions different from yours and you don't like it and if you aren't happy THEN NOBODY IS HAPPY.

Your own thread title is misinformation, as we clearly aren't X-wing Miniatures designers, they aren't even allowed to post. As a proponent of Thread Title Accuracy you should had labeled it "Why are we trying to act like X-wing Miniatures Designers? Stop it because i do not like it."

The thread title is clearly metaphoric. Could you not see that?

It's as much my forum as it is yours and theirs. I'm expressing what I'd like to see of it.

And I like to see other forum member's ideas about fixes to things i feel don't work right.It's as much my forum as it is yours, and theirs. I'm expressing what I'd like to see of it.

You see what i did there?

I'm really not trying to mock you but your argument is ridiculous.

Most of these threads that you say "annoy" you have titles that clearly state what they're about.

JUTS. DON'T. CLICK. ON. THEM. Show some self control if they bother you that much. Geez.

No, they clearly say some ship is broken or some mechanic is broken, and that misleads new players into believing a falsehood. Share your house rule if that's what you want to do and clearly state so in the title, but JUTS DON'T MISINFORM.

Dealing with you makes my head hurt. You've now switched to saying that we're scaring off new players? You're just pissy people are holding opinions different from yours and you don't like it and if you aren't happy THEN NOBODY IS HAPPY.

Your own thread title is misinformation, as we clearly aren't X-wing Miniatures designers, they aren't even allowed to post. As a proponent of Thread Title Accuracy you should had labeled it "Why are we trying to act like X-wing Miniatures Designers? Stop it because i do not like it."

You have a habit of misunderstanding and paraphrasing incorrectly.. Misinforming is not scaring off.

The thread title is clearly metaphoric. Could you not see that?

First world problems

@z0m4d

1) It’s fun and entertaining! (I love to hear new ideas, and out of the box thinking!)

2) It’s a social thing where like minded people share ideas! (It is how new ideas might be sparked!)

3) If you listened to the interviews with FFG staff, they read and listen to the forum. Because IT IS in their best interest!

@Shake-a-noodle

Since you singled my idea out, I can only concluded that you wish that I respond. Though I have little time for negative and socially repugnant people, I will respond for benefit of the Wonderful X-Wing players who love the game and wish to see it evolve.

The Variant Bomber idea, is actually Variants for all ships. The idea is to “Custom Your Ship” like you would custom your car. (And there is a historical aspect to it.) It is the advancement of new technology through time. New tech comes out and that tech replace the old tech, while the space craft rolls off the assembly line. AND, to make my point clear, I have had MANY more posters like the idea then the few (loud and negative posters!) who didn't.

What is really sad is that there are posters who don’t understand that one idea, (no-matter how good or bad), generates many more ideas. This is how good ideas are created! Everyone throws in an idea, everyone discuses it, and the idea evolves into something great. This is how Civilizations, Nations and Businesses advanced and prosper. New ideas are the life blood that fuels greatness!

Always remember there are two kinds of people:

1) Those who create new ideas, and think out side the box. These are the people who put a men on the moon.

2) And those who resist new ideas, who would still be living in a cave bashing each other with sticks, if it wasn't for the first group.

For Mr, at least, tearing the rules apart and rebuilding them helps me understand the rules better, and thus understand the game better. If I find myself coming to similar conclusions as the designers, then I'll know that the mechanic is probably sound. If we differ, than either I am wrong about a game effect (good to know!), or the game itself has a rough edge (also good to know!).

Plus it's fun to crack the hood and see the engine purr.

It's as much my forum as it is yours and theirs. I'm expressing what I'd like to see of it.

And I like to see other forum member's ideas about fixes to things i feel don't work right.

It's as much my forum as it is yours, and theirs. I'm expressing what I'd like to see of it.

You see what i did there?

I'm really not trying to mock you but your argument is ridiculous.

Most of these threads that you say "annoy" you have titles that clearly state what they're about.

JUTS. DON'T. CLICK. ON. THEM. Show some self control if they bother you that much. Geez.

No, they clearly say some ship is broken or some mechanic is broken, and that misleads new players into believing a falsehood. Share your house rule if that's what you want to do and clearly state so in the title, but JUTS DON'T MISINFORM.

Dealing with you makes my head hurt. You've now switched to saying that we're scaring off new players? You're just pissy people are holding opinions different from yours and you don't like it and if you aren't happy THEN NOBODY IS HAPPY.

Your own thread title is misinformation, as we clearly aren't X-wing Miniatures designers, they aren't even allowed to post. As a proponent of Thread Title Accuracy you should had labeled it "Why are we trying to act like X-wing Miniatures Designers? Stop it because i do not like it."

You have a habit of misunderstanding and paraphrasing incorrectly.. Misinforming is not scaring off.

The thread title is clearly metaphoric. Could you not see that?

I apologize, I should have said ruining new players. And as for metaphoric, you can't rely on the tone in your head to convey to readers on teh interwebz, and you're just as likely to misinform new players as those dirty, filthy, houserulers.

But I'm really glad we have you to lay down the law on what/how we should post. Please come up with an article, some sort of guideline for posting so we don't offend you with erroneous titles. Hell, do it just for me, send it to me in a PM, and I'll set it as my desktop so i can always have your words of wisdom close to hand. I'll also send any topic titles i ahve to you in a PM so you can approve of them before i put new threads down. I don't want to create a negative atmosphere for you.

There are a significant fraction of posts along the lines of "problem X-fix idea X" that are decently productive.

But there are also lots and lots of posts about some perceived problem that are just players blaming the game for their losses. Those players are lowering their own enjoyment of the game. They are also bringing down the level of discourse on the forum and discouraging other new players from enjoying their own games. This second version is not useful for anyone and while it might feel good to shoot off on the Internet about how the other guy had it easy because of his list it's only hurting your chances of enjoying future games.

Nothing wrong with theorycrafting, although it is kinda annoying when people talk as if they know better than the designers with nothing to back such a statement up.

Actually, if you watched Alex Davy's interview by Team Covenant, he admitted that they actively lurked on the forums. They are reading these posts.

There's probably a reason scum and villany, the defender, huge ships, and Chardaan Refit exists. It's no coincidence the community callef for these thinga and they came to be.

There's probably a reason scum and villany, the defender, huge ships, and Chardaan Refit exists. It's no coincidence the community callef for these thinga and they came to be.

I agree with the first sentence and not the second. Scum and Villainy exists because there are only so many suitable Rebel and Imperial ships: Scum allows more releases without resorting to mining obscurity. The TIE defender was somewhat inevitable: it's an EU staple. Chardaan Refit is a balancing measure, huge ships, if the SKUs are to be believed, started development a very long time ago indeed.

Basically I just like talking about ships and pilots that aren't in the game but that might bring some more dimention and possibilities. I don't like placing limitations on something that feels like it would add more fun to my fun. We obviously love this game enough that we want to maybe think of new ways to approach the existing material with whatever concepts we happen to have. There are also the "math wing" people who break down things into an odds game, which is a big part of the gameplay, and I applaud them for looking at things from a pure balance perspective.

My point is we aren't doing the forum any harm by looking at new angles and then asking for input from our fellow players for helping with fictitious additions. Why do you have such an issue with us? We just want a good game to be even better.

But I'm really glad we have you to lay down the law on what/how we should post. Please come up with an article, some sort of guideline for posting so we don't offend you with erroneous titles. Hell, do it just for me, send it to me in a PM, and I'll set it as my desktop so i can always have your words of wisdom close to hand. I'll also send any topic titles i ahve to you in a PM so you can approve of them before i put new threads down. I don't want to create a negative atmosphere for you.

It'd be wonderful if my opinion--and that's all it is--stated in this thread changed the dynamic of the forum so there are fewer "Let's Play Designer To Fix Something Not Broken in a Way FFG Never Ever Would". It may or may not happen, but I don't delude myself a moment into thinking I can control you or others. Do what you want. I'm merely sharing how I feel. Why is it upsetting you so much?

Actually, if you watched Alex Davy's interview by Team Covenant, he admitted that they actively lurked on the forums. They are reading these posts.

There's probably a reason scum and villany, the defender, huge ships, and Chardaan Refit exists. It's no coincidence the community callef for these thinga and they came to be.

I answered that earlier.

They did admit they read the forums. However, the lead time on development is about 18 months, so whatever our concerns are are already probably answered and in the manufacturing-shipping pipeline by the time we start whining about them.

But I'm really glad we have you to lay down the law on what/how we should post. Please come up with an article, some sort of guideline for posting so we don't offend you with erroneous titles. Hell, do it just for me, send it to me in a PM, and I'll set it as my desktop so i can always have your words of wisdom close to hand. I'll also send any topic titles i ahve to you in a PM so you can approve of them before i put new threads down. I don't want to create a negative atmosphere for you.

It'd be wonderful if my opinion--and that's all it is--stated in this thread changed the dynamic of the forum so there are fewer "Let's Play Designer To Fix Something Not Broken in a Way FFG Never Ever Would". It may or may not happen, but I don't delude myself a moment into thinking I can control you or others. Do what you want. I'm merely sharing how I feel. Why is it upsetting you so much?

Because you are literally turning into a troll. We went from a thread discussing perceived problems with the A-wing, i left and started a thread discussing one potential fix, you jumped in and continued the same **** discussion from the previous thread, and now you've created your very own thread complaining about the people complaining about broken/subpar ships. You are the one upset at people discussing things you don't like. No one forced you to click on all these threads discussing fixes, and then post in them. And apparently you're doing it because you are annoyed and trying to protect the new players from our malevolent influence. What? Yeah, because you posting threads practically attacking a substantial user base of the forum makes us look reeaaallll good for new players checking this out. Ridiculous.

Why is it upsetting you so much?

Because you are literally turning into a troll. We went from a thread discussing perceived problems with the A-wing, i left and started a thread discussing one potential fix, you jumped in and continued the same **** discussion from the previous thread, and now you've created your very own thread complaining about the people complaining about broken/subpar ships. You are the one upset at people discussing things you don't like. No one forced you to click on all these threads discussing fixes, and then post in them. And apparently you're doing it because you are annoyed and trying to protect the new players from our malevolent influence. What? Yeah, because you posting threads practically attacking a substantial user base of the forum makes us look reeaaallll good for new players checking this out. Ridiculous.

I don't know what the first thread is that you're talking about. In the second thread, which you started, I wrote

That set you off. We devolved into a derailed banter and it died. Then I created my own thread about my own view. You're welcome to post here, but it seems to be upsetting you. Now you're calling me a troll. For some reason you're drawn to it like a moth that keeps smacking into a light bulb. You're just as welcome to ignore the thread, too, you know.

shhhh. I'd love to design games. =P

For now. I'm gonnna focus on just house ruling for my own enjoyment. Fel's Wrath yeah?

@z0m4d

1) It’s fun and entertaining! (I love to hear new ideas, and out of the box thinking!)

2) It’s a social thing where like minded people share ideas! (It is how new ideas might be sparked!)

3) If you listened to the interviews with FFG staff, they read and listen to the forum. Because IT IS in their best interest!

@Shake-a-noodle

Since you singled my idea out, I can only concluded that you wish that I respond. Though I have little time for negative and socially repugnant people, I will respond for benefit of the Wonderful X-Wing players who love the game and wish to see it evolve.

The Variant Bomber idea, is actually Variants for all ships. The idea is to “Custom Your Ship” like you would custom your car. (And there is a historical aspect to it.) It is the advancement of new technology through time. New tech comes out and that tech replace the old tech, while the space craft rolls off the assembly line. AND, to make my point clear, I have had MANY more posters like the idea then the few (loud and negative posters!) who didn't.

What is really sad is that there are posters who don’t understand that one idea, (no-matter how good or bad), generates many more ideas. This is how good ideas are created! Everyone throws in an idea, everyone discuses it, and the idea evolves into something great. This is how Civilizations, Nations and Businesses advanced and prosper. New ideas are the life blood that fuels greatness!

Always remember there are two kinds of people:

1) Those who create new ideas, and think out side the box. These are the people who put a men on the moon.

2) And those who resist new ideas, who would still be living in a cave bashing each other with sticks, if it wasn't for the first group.

Ah, name calling...the final refuge of those who cant effectively argue with those who disagree. I am so glad you decided to respond to me though...being as "negative and socially repugnant" as I am. Have we met before outside of an internet forum...yeah didnt think so. Your opinion of me makes no nevermind to me and my opinion of you shouldnt really matter to you...this is a message board about pushing little starfighters from a fantasy universe around, besides I thought you were still busy ignoring everything I post. Hell, in all honesty I thought you were gone...I guess you aren't...

I singled out your idea because it combined with your inability to accept any other feed back other than "Yeah that is Super Awesome" made it hands down the worst idea I have read on this forum. I see you are at least, finally, attempting to make some change though i see you once again have failed to take into account balance issues which are the biggest issues your idea had (I assume you feel point costs, which you have said yourself you are unable to figure out, will "balance" this out)...you marketed it as an idea for bomber as I recall, and now you want to extend it to every ship?. And when those of us who saw the flaws in your idea pointed them out (balance issues in particular) you retreated to "Ha Ha I am just going to not listen to anything you say." I look at this again and think "Why even have action bars?" Lets just allow everyone to build any custom ship they want? Regardless of how broken it can become?

As far as MANY more agreeing with you...maybe, but those must have all come via PM or maybe you are counting "likes?". As i recall (and I am willing to link back to those threads if anyone would like) no one with more than 1 or two lines worth of text (ie anyone with anything to add really) had much positive to say about your "Super Awesome" idea. You subsequently blew all of us off. And as I recall there were more posts criticizing your idea and offering fixes and work arounds (or straight up telling you it was a bad/repetitive idea, which it is) than there were praising it as it stood.

Keep comparing yourself to those who put us on the moon...this is a game, nothing more nothing less. Those with new ideas should be open to criticism and naysaying. You need positive and negative feedback to come to the best idea. You cant handle negative criticism based on what I have seen...and you deserve to be called out on that. You can lump yourself in with your self styled "Group 1" and me in "Group 2" if you so desire. It means nothing, you will continue to banter on about your idea and I cant stop you. But I will continue to call you out on it as long as you fail to address the very real balance issues that exist with your "Super Awesome" idea.

There's probably a reason scum and villany, the defender, huge ships, and Chardaan Refit exists. It's no coincidence the community callef for these thinga and they came to be.

I agree with the first sentence and not the second. Scum and Villainy exists because there are only so many suitable Rebel and Imperial ships: Scum allows more releases without resorting to mining obscurity. The TIE defender was somewhat inevitable: it's an EU staple. Chardaan Refit is a balancing measure, huge ships, if the SKUs are to be believed, started development a very long time ago indeed.

EDIT TO ADD: the smug gets so thick sometimes you can cut it with a knife

Well, I think it's ok for people to discuss different aspects of the game. That shouldn't be discouraged. However, the OP's right in saying that forum members have a tendency to speak with authority and offense that hasn't, and cannot, be earned. I've thought, word for word, the OP's post ititle in my head very recently.

Yes, people have great ideas on the forums, but they don't have access to the big picture. That, and there really is very limited "design space" (buzzword!) So it's only a matter of odds that someone's idea matches closely with the designers.

I know it helps people feel closer to the community, like they're privy to the behind the scenes activity of FFG. There's nothing bad about it, but it can make the forums a rough place when people get emotional and authoritative about the game.

Just take the OP's comment as a gentle reminder, don't insult anybody, and move on.