So chaps, quick brain storm. I'm thinking of adding a limited number of the Old Ones into the campaign which starts proper next week. Don't worry they wont be in for a while. Rumours suggest from various sources that after the big war in heaven, a small number of them survived and fled. Others suggest extinction. I would however like to keep a single one behind just as a potential intriguing plot point.

To you then, the assembled, what would one of these Old Ones look like to you as theres little concrete of their appearance? What might their tech look like to you and what might a servant of the ruinous powers do with such a being of immense power?

Any ideas are welcome.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Slann

They were once called the Old Slann and looked like giant toads/lizards.

Jokaero are keepers of Slann technology, however most of it is super science, anything is possible. They are the kind who build ring worlds.

See I got the impression that they were the creation of the original race as opposed to the race themselves as I also found references to Slann and Jokaero (the latter of which somewhat annoys me purely because it's a **** ape in 40k!) which means that the original race themselves seems to be something of an unknown...vexxing.

Canon is conflicting on what they looked like, but your two most-supported choices would be 'giant frog' and 'something that looks like both the Eldar and the Humans might have descended from them'. Maybe something like the Engineers from Prometheus; then at least something useful will have come from that movie.

As to their technology, I image that it would be 'sufficiently advanced' enough to come across more like magical artifacts. Stargate (or even Thor) could perhaps provide some inspiration there.

As to your third question, I think that would vary considerably depending on which particular ruinous power the servant served.

P.S.: You're not alone; I hate Jokaero with a passion.

I know very little about jokaero. What's their beef?

Imagine an orangutan with metallic hands and fingers. The wording from the GK 5th Ed Cheesedex stated:

"Jokaero are technosavants without peer and have an instinctive understanding of machinery and technological systems. Given sufficient time and fragments of alloy and circuitry, a Jokaero can make almost anything, from a spaceship to a food synthesizer"

Basically, more tech knowledge in ONE ape than the entirity of the Adeptus Mechanicus combined and yet has no grasp of language or conversation and just "does what it likes" to Imperial or any tech it finds which brasses off the Ad Mech. It's an ALIEN ape and a mutation and yet it was an Inquisitorial Henchman. It's got digital weapons on it and rumoured to have made them, got more advanced tech and yet the Inquisitors are USING them rather than following universal Imperial Mandate of killing everything that isn't human.

Then when you actually fielded the **** thing roll a D6 for each squad and it basically upgrades them adding extra AV, Rending, range, an Invun or multiple of the above as well as itself being armed with either Las Cannon, Multi Melta, Heavy Flamer. All from...an ape.

The concept was cheesy but it was established in Necron 3rd Ed and even from the original Rogue Trader 1987 book so I guess they wanted to keep it in again but my question is why it exists at all. I just wonder what the hell was someone on when they wrote that thing in? It just seems the most deranged thing ever added and this is in a galaxy full of Xenomorphs, Daemons, oriental themed Tau, overpowered Spahzz Mahrines, Orks with no concept other than "if we think it works, it works" and whatever other oddities. It is without question the single greatest WTH moment ever.

</endrant>

Maybe they are Terry Pratchet fans?

Or they really hate the squats: going "you see this space monkey with the super tech? We'll bring that silly thing back rather than your space dwarves! Up yours squat fans!"

Now for me, I like the Jokaero. But i'm a sucker for refernces to older editions.

In Rogue trader they could take stuff apart and build new weapons in the middle of the game.

Their tech was perhaps similar to the eldar, I read somewhere the eldar sorta inherited the webway from the Old ones.

The old ones we're also into creating new species (Slann, Eldar, Krork) to fight the necrons/c'tan But i wonder how canon that stil is since the newcron codex came out.

I don't think any chaos servant can handle an old one. But their technology would be very valuable to the forces of chaos. Creating warp portals on imperial worlds, or breaching the webway. Massivly boosting psychic powers, Creating 4 new species, each dedicated to a single chaos god...

Chaos Gods have no need in any kind of species "devoted" to them - they already have innumerable humanity which perfectly suits their needs, sustains them, worships them and forms the absolute, undisputed majority of the ranks of their mortal armies. How many Ork daemon princes can you name? Eldar daemon princes? Yu'Vath, Rak'gol, Kroot, Sslyth, Stryxis aspiring champions of chaos?

That's because all of them (even the slaanesh, created by Eldar) embody emotions and concepts very human in nature, and thus easily percieved by humans, but harder to grasp by alien mind. It is indeed safe to assume that should humanity ever fall - the chaos gods will soon follow, and no artificial race could help.

Technically Eldar are of interest to Slaanesh which sustains them...also some of the images of the Ork deities (Gork and Mork) do have bestial horned characteristics which can resemble to some degree Khorne. It may be possible that Khorne and one of these two are the same which implies worship to this being further involves worship to the chaos gods.

Eldar both dark and regular take protecting their souls from turning out in the hands of She Who Thirsts EXTREMELY serious, and it is exceedingly rare for a dead eldar to sustain chaos instead of being brought back to craftworld infinity circuit or resurrected by homunculus. Humans, on the other hand, die in trillions, and only warp awaits them in afterlife.

There is plenty of evidence that Gork and Mork are NOT khorne. Also, it happends that an ork may go bananas and start fighting for da blud god. The rest of the boys usually treat those symptoms by lethal applying of propa smacks in da head for falling out of orkish kultur.

I think you misunderstand. I know what you're getting at already and this is more as a hypothetical or alternative view point.

An Eldar soul though is more valuable to Slaanesh and they would forgo countless human ones to enjoy another Eldar if it were not carefully guarded. Slaanesh delights on rare treats and it gives them immense pleasure for one of these so why would they deny themselves an Eldar soul if they had the chance. What I refer to then is that while not intentionally feeding She Who Thirsts, they still do as an Eldar life is snuffed out.

Also while there is a plethora of evidence suggesting they arent Khorne, as mentioned this is purely from an aesthetic stand point and a basic ideology of "just bloody kill it" there are some similarities which while it may not be Khorne, could easily be a manifestation or something within the Warp.

Finally, humanity and the chaos gods are not necessarily linked. If we go back to the original topic it was suggested within one of the books somewhere that the Chaos Gods are a creation of the Old ones and that before them the warp and the Immaterium were just other realms of power which these beings ended up twisting and distorting and creating the lesser races which we all know. I do not believe that without humanity, all chaos would cease. Human souls are valuable but in time they would seek out a new source...

Plus given how insane GW have been lately I wouldn't be surprised if they did change all this.

Eldar souls are consumed very rarely, and as eldar numbers diminish and their effectivenes at preserving their souls increases, it becomes rarer still. Yet the power of slaanesh only grows - precisely because it is not eldar-only diety.

From aesthetics and ideoligy Khorne is vastly different from Gork and Mork. It is as if you would call Isha a manifestation of Nurgle because both are friendly and generous.

And I was talking about uselessness of other races until humanity is there - and by the look of it humans aren't going anywhere from the milky way galaxy.

When I brought the Old Ones into my game they were in a Dyson Sphere within a pocket dimension only accessible via Webway. The Tech in the shell of the Dyson Sphere was clean, smooth, diffuse light. Inside on the "world" face was 'Aztec chic' Temples and jungles. The Old Ones never spoke, playing up the mysticism, I had a Skink shaman be the "godspeaker". Old One tech specifically? A whole lot of hand-wavey deus ex machine.

I like to imagine the Old Ones as Slann but I do have a crazy theory... Ethereals are the Old Ones! I know, laugh all you like but to me it makes sense. What is the chance a new alien race comes to Tau as they destroy themselves and save them and rise them to power. I thought Old Ones. The tech could be styled on Old One tech and the Tau use their Xeno allies very cleverly.

The Chaos gods might not be as physical or singular instead they could just be a momentous and massive collection of emotions. This could mean that their palaces and fortresses don't exist (sorry Khorne but you just can't pay the rent for that skull fortress) but are just legends and myths made up by Chaos Worshippers.

I hate Jokaeros too, ape people scum.

Y u no like tech monkey?

Atleast they don't b*tch and moan about "perverting the holy shape and purpose of the standard device" when you want a gun altered

You're going to be slapped around hard by the Librarian, Robin.

Don't you mean the adeptus mechanicus?

And it's okay really, btw, wanna see my monkey pall just made?

*Tosses Vortex grenade*

Vortex grenades tend to win arguments

I guess i like xenotech to much huh? Really like eldar D-cannons. Chicks want the D.

I was referring to Discworld actually, wondering if you would catch it.

As you know, if you don't want to be clubbed, don't call the Librarian a monkey.

Ape, not monkey, ape.

What the hell is that thing?! Don't tell me they've infiltrated the library. Better run kiddies cause Ape-man is gonna get you!

And it's okay really, btw, wanna see my monkey pall just made?

*Tosses Vortex grenade*

It's at this point you realise that due to the random and unpredictable nature of a Jokaero upgrade, that thing which looks like a Vortex grenade is actually a decorative and fancy looking glow orb and you stand there with a pin looking rather silly...

I kid ye not the rules for it in codex were that crap that it could redo your entire weapon aesthetics and somehow make it look different to what it actually is and that's it.

I was referring to Discworld actually, wondering if you would catch it.

As you know, if you don't want to be clubbed, don't call the Librarian a monkey.

Ape, not monkey, ape.

Yeah didn't catch that becuz when i read "librarian" in 40k contex i think psyker marine.

But yeah I do wonder if the jokaero were included in rogue trader as a nod towards Terry Pratchet.

And it's okay really, btw, wanna see my monkey pall just made?

*Tosses Vortex grenade*

It's at this point you realise that due to the random and unpredictable nature of a Jokaero upgrade, that thing which looks like a Vortex grenade is actually a decorative and fancy looking glow orb and you stand there with a pin looking rather silly...

I kid ye not the rules for it in codex were that crap that it could redo your entire weapon aesthetics and somehow make it look different to what it actually is and that's it.

Thats still ok, everybody runs when they see a vortex grenade comming at them. Nobody can survive that.(And don't say Kaldor Draigo can! )

Chuck Norris can.

(I knew you'd say that )

Well yeah, He's Chuck Norris!