I wrote up a session report of a casual tournament at my FLGS.

CHECK IT OUT HERE

Pretty good write-up and pictures. You have to admit, though, that your list was just a teensy bit sub-optimal, especially vs Fat Han.

Maybe Proton Torpedoes and/or Proximity Mines on the bombers would make them a little more rounded for facing all comers? Most people don't run any ordinance except bombs on Jonus anyway, since he cant affect himself (sadly).

Pretty good write-up and pictures. You have to admit, though, that your list was just a teensy bit sub-optimal, especially vs Fat Han.

Maybe Proton Torpedoes and/or Proximity Mines on the bombers would make them a little more rounded for facing all comers? Most people don't run any ordinance except bombs on Jonus anyway, since he cant affect himself (sadly).

That's why I put homing missiles on Jonus. Then he can spend the TL to reroll. Also I had never ever used homing missiles before.

My list was totally sub-optimal. I put it together in like 5 minutes. Didn't put a lot of thought into it.

Hmm, how do Homing Missiles interact with C3PO? Do they only prevent usage of the evade token from the MF title, or do they prevent all evade results?

Edit: derp my bad. My brain didn't fully process the word "token" on the homing missile card

Anyway, seems like a (too expensive) way to sneak some damage in on old fatty.

Haha Jonus never had a shot. Though I would assume 3PO doesn't care about homing missles. He adds an Evade result to the dice, not an evade token.

Hmm, how do Homing Missiles interact with C3PO? Do they only prevent usage of the evade token from the MF title, or do they prevent all evade results?

C-3PO is not an evade token. Only evade tokens are evade tokens

Homing Missiles prevents evade tokens from being spent, regardless of their source - so Lando, Jan Ors, etc, all give tokens that will be useless against the Homing Missile. But any other evade source - C-3PO, Autothrusters, etc, works fine.

It was an interesting article and lots of nice pictures. I can picture what happened vs Han:

- Your opponenet plotted a course so he would never get within range 1 of Vader (proton rockets).

- If you had initiative then it meant you could not get a lock on the initial pass (and could not even with a K-turn the following turn)

- If he had the initiative, it meant that you could use Vader to give another bomber a target lock, but that meant only 1 dangerous attack (which could be mitigated by evade and C3PO).

- This most likely left only the Z-95 as viable targets, which you used your ordinance against, but then that meant that you no longer had the firepower to take the Falcon down afterwards.

Did I deduce some of the elements correctly?

It was an interesting article and lots of nice pictures. I can picture what happened vs Han:

- Your opponenet plotted a course so he would never get within range 1 of Vader (proton rockets).

- If you had initiative then it meant you could not get a lock on the initial pass (and could not even with a K-turn the following turn)

- If he had the initiative, it meant that you could use Vader to give another bomber a target lock, but that meant only 1 dangerous attack (which could be mitigated by evade and C3PO).

- This most likely left only the Z-95 as viable targets, which you used your ordinance against, but then that meant that you no longer had the firepower to take the Falcon down afterwards.

Did I deduce some of the elements correctly?

Pretty much. I had initiative.

A couple things here since I was the Fat Han player. If you want to test something, there is nothing like testing it in the wild. A tournament setting gives you the most games per unit of time, as well as exposing you to people you do not usually get to play, especially in my case since I live in the middle of nowhere and have exactly one other X-wing player in town. Yes there is Vassal, which I use, but it is not quite the same thing. You still may not get the same game density, and it is an untimed environment.

It sounds very much like you are saying Fat Han is "cheesy" and should not be played in "casual" tournaments. Even if Morbidly Obese Freighters are a problem (and I agree they are), both of those terms are subjective, as is "not fun to fly against." We play the game we are given, and everything legal within it is fair game. The issue has already been discussed extensively.

Unless the tournament is specific about what you can and can't bring ( in my experience, x-wing tourneys aren't), you should expect people to bring what they want to play, that includes bringing whatever top lists they want, maybe because they enjoy that.

In the end, it was the expectations you placed on others (to bring a quirky list) that ruined your enjoyment of the final game. Had you accepted that you might end up playing a highly competitive list, especially the final game, you might have set a different goal or result since you brought a list that really couldn't handle it, especially if you hadn't played it before.

Two more things worth noting, IMO.

One is that, from what I know of him (we played in a TC tourney and attended the same regional earlier this year), Rekkon tends to take original lists himself, even in highly competitive tournaments, and is very good. That brings me to my second point, which is that from the limited damage you inflicted, it sounds like you were outplayed. I don't say this to be insulting, as it's fully understandable due your inexperience playing against any Fat Han (your first time) and your choice of list, but I believe it's worth examining that as well.

Finally, I say this even though I do wish Fat Falcons weren't so prevalent and don't play them myself. I've seen players who don't finish in the top half of tournaments turn to them and then win it all and have lost to lists with them even though I hadn't lost to that player with any other list before.

Good for both of you bringing what you wanted to to the tournament. Good luck to you both enjoying your next event.

Ya, I was not running an original list for a number of reasons. Worlds showed that I had prepared insufficiently against fat Falcons, and like it or not they are going to be dominant in the meta for a while. If you want to beat a particular squad, you need to know how it works, and that means using it. Anything that wins Worlds is going to see copycat play, so examining Paul's list in depth is prudent if you have any intentions to play competitively. Additionally, I had more or less written off the R2-D2 crew when it first came out. Obviously that was a huge oversight, so I wanted to use it in the wild. Theorycrafting only goes so far.

It's annoying to fight against, sure, but that's kind of where the game is heading. There are finally ships and upgrades that really DO allow you to outplay and outright win games more easily with certain ships. Fat Han, Corran + R2D2, Phantoms, Outrider HLC Dash, etc. If these ships get into optimal positions, it becomes very difficult to beat them. It's just the game the way it is, and likely the way it is going to be. Choices are to either practice against these ships and gain some sense as to how to beat them, or....JOIN THEM! Haha.

Ya, I was not running an original list for a number of reasons. Worlds showed that I had prepared insufficiently against fat Falcons, and like it or not they are going to be dominant in the meta for a while. If you want to beat a particular squad, you need to know how it works, and that means using it. Anything that wins Worlds is going to see copycat play, so examining Paul's list in depth is prudent if you have any intentions to play competitively. Additionally, I had more or less written off the R2-D2 crew when it first came out. Obviously that was a huge oversight, so I wanted to use it in the wild. Theorycrafting only goes so far.

I had a similar experience at World's. I had had very good success against falcons until that point, but at World's I encountered only Fat Han (no Lando or Chewie) with an Engine upgrade included and that was the big difference-- most falcons I had done well against didn't include that or were lower PS.

If you go to a tournament, don't be naive.... EXPECT to see Fat Han. EXPECT IT!

If you cannot fight it....learn.

....for tournaments.

"To be fair, my opponent said he was only running the list to see just how much of a problem it was and gain some perspective on it, but that’s something you do at home with friends, not at a casual tournament."

Why would you spring it on a friend at home? So you can curbstomp him into oblivion when he's not expecting it? Home is the place to test out UNTESTED squads. Not ones that are proven.

WTF is a "Casual Tournament"? Tournaments are tournaments...and by their own definition...competetive. I don't understand your viewpoint.

For the record...I used Pauls "Biggs walks the Dogs" at my Imdaar Alpha tournament....smashed everyone...and didnt bat an eye.

Tournaments are for winning.

Home is for fun.

Both have an element of "Casual" but the tournament's "casual" means 'try not to take everything so serious' not 'bring a dumbed down list.

A couple things here since I was the Fat Han player. If you want to test something, there is nothing like testing it in the wild. A tournament setting gives you the most games per unit of time, as well as exposing you to people you do not usually get to play, especially in my case since I live in the middle of nowhere and have exactly one other X-wing player in town. Yes there is Vassal, which I use, but it is not quite the same thing. You still may not get the same game density, and it is an untimed environment.

It sounds very much like you are saying Fat Han is "cheesy" and should not be played in "casual" tournaments. Even if Morbidly Obese Freighters are a problem (and I agree they are), both of those terms are subjective, as is "not fun to fly against." We play the game we are given, and everything legal within it is fair game. The issue has already been discussed extensively.

Yeah I understand, especially since, like you said, it's hard to get games in with lots of people at once sometimes.

No hard feelings man.

Just sharing my opinions which are clearly not popular. Cheers.

Good, It seem you have a nice and fun time in the tournament, thanks for share with us, please put the next, greettings

Good write-up, Rogue Lt.... as a new player you describe a large part of why I, as a newer player, I'm not interested in tournaments. By large, I play mostly with friends who don't have ships of their own, that I've introduced to the game and they draw from my resources; we play builds to learn and aren't ready for the grim, meat-hook realities of meta and tournament play. Anyway, thanks for the photos and words, very helpful!

Man you make tournaments sound like its the death sentence. Every tournament I have gone to has just been multiple games in a row and an enjoyable time. If you think tournaments are evil, you are missing out on a lot. Most players actually just want to get a few games in a row and if they win, happy day. People are just excited to get some games in.

What is wrong with flying a fat han list? If its the "academy" would it not be wise to show the newbies what to expect? I don't think you are doing them a service by shoveling the "evil" lists off into the corner and for them to find out about these later in a major event. What happens if they see this then and feel disheartened like you and just give up and feel they wasted time with this game? No list is cheese, some are indeed easier than others, but no list is a insta-win button. How you write this makes it sound like you yourself are inexperienced against the list and thus didn't do well. How do you get better against this list if you don't use it or see it in casual games or "casual" tournaments against different opponents?

This is just where the game is at the moment; Fat Hans need sorting out, and even those who play them agree. That puts Fat Han in a category above hi-ps Phantoms, which are also overly popular (because they bring massif win), but are often defended by Phantom pilots shouting "learn to play", or some such thing. I think it is somewhat obvious that FFG can't really fix the one without fixing the other, and they need to do this real clever like, so that they do not simply introduce another alpha predator, but actually level the entire playing field a bit.

Expect to face any legal list at any tournament, regardless of the name of the tournament. 'X wing academy' equally applies to people wanting to learn how to fly fat Hans, or phantom lists or whatever. Sorry, but your write up sounds like sour grapes. In the near future, expect to tackle fat decimators, fat dash's etc etc. the quicker you get to grips with it, the more fun you'll have. They aren't indestructable, and when you DO take one down, it's all the more satisfying.

it's not fun to take out C3P0 falcons or ACD phantoms, it is just annoying and clockwork with very minimal brain functions needed. Up against ACD phantom? bring in your anti phantom stuff, declare GG, ask if your opponent wishes to conceed to be spared an unnecessarily painful 30mins. Against falcons? shoot at it until it dies, no strategies whatsoever needed, just sheer dice quantity.

everything has already been dictated at the deck-building part, whether your list will straight out eat ACD phantoms or fail terribly against them, there's virtually no middle ground barring exceptional dice rolls (on either side), Falcons not so much, but not even the power of the Force can help you when you are down to 1 fully equipped untouched PTL chardaan Awing named ace pilot vs a 2hp left falcon. You will lose, simple as that.

it's not fun to take out C3P0 falcons or ACD phantoms, it is just annoying and clockwork with very minimal brain functions needed. Up against ACD phantom? bring in your anti phantom stuff, declare GG, ask if your opponent wishes to conceed to be spared an unnecessarily painful 30mins. Against falcons? shoot at it until it dies, no strategies whatsoever needed, just sheer dice quantity.

everything has already been dictated at the deck-building part, whether your list will straight out eat ACD phantoms or fail terribly against them, there's virtually no middle ground barring exceptional dice rolls (on either side), Falcons not so much, but not even the power of the Force can help you when you are down to 1 fully equipped untouched PTL chardaan Awing named ace pilot vs a 2hp left falcon. You will lose, simple as that.

As always, your vision of the game is very bleak. I would not play this game you speak of, but it is also not X-wing.

it's not fun to take out C3P0 falcons or ACD phantoms, it is just annoying and clockwork with very minimal brain functions needed. Up against ACD phantom? bring in your anti phantom stuff, declare GG, ask if your opponent wishes to conceed to be spared an unnecessarily painful 30mins. Against falcons? shoot at it until it dies, no strategies whatsoever needed, just sheer dice quantity.

everything has already been dictated at the deck-building part, whether your list will straight out eat ACD phantoms or fail terribly against them, there's virtually no middle ground barring exceptional dice rolls (on either side), Falcons not so much, but not even the power of the Force can help you when you are down to 1 fully equipped untouched PTL chardaan Awing named ace pilot vs a 2hp left falcon. You will lose, simple as that.

As always, your vision of the game is very bleak. I would not play this game you speak of, but it is also not X-wing.

wave 3 post Imperial Aces pre Tantive days were simply the golden age of Xwing, where any homebrew list actually stood a chance, and the way to deal with key combos was flying and in-game tactics, not so much what you build into your deck. People could fly what they loved, and had a really decent shot at winning, even with lists that werent that optimized.

yes, wave 4 is no longer the Xwing that I loved, and while I still do enjoy it, ACD and C3P0 have completely perverted the game to its current status, from the glory wave 3 era.

I doubt any player who had some games back during the wave 3 time would argue that current Xwing is a better game than it was back then.