Hi All,

I tend to play with newer players so I wanted to create some guidelines to help beginners build reasonable lists for casual play.

Heres what I've come up with so far...

General List-building Guidelines

- Aim to have about 3-5 ships in your list

- Spend only about 15 points in upgrades

- Do not spend more than 25 points on any ship with less than 3 Dice attack

- Aim to have at least 9 attack dice in your list

- Aim at have at least 16 Shields and Hull in your list

- Some Pilot abilities (to be maximised) dictate the style of list they should be played in (Howlruner, Biggs Darklighter, Etahn A'baht, Captain Jonus, Colonel Vessery)

- To review your completed list... line up your ships by offense, and then by defense; try to align these orders as much as possible to ensure a balanced list

General Ship Guidelines

- Generic low PS ships are generally points efficient and can be solid additions to a list

- Ships with less than 5 points of combined Hull and Shields are considered fragile because they can be one-shot to death

(putting lots of points into fragile ships can be a risky proposition)

- The TIE Advanced is generally considered weak for its points cost (except Darth Vader who is a total boss!)

General Upgrade Guidelines

- Actions are powerful, be wary of any upgrade that costs you your action as often the cost isn't worth the outcome

- Ordnance (Missiles & Torpedoes) are generally considered expensive and unreliable

(Munitions Failsafe is often throwing more points at trying to make a bad option work)

(Some of the newer options: Ion Pulse Missiles, Flechette Torpedoes, Proton Rockets aren't as bad)

- 'Infinite Fletchettes' - by combining flechette torpedoes (2pts; Torpedo) with munitions failsafe (1pt; Modification) you have the option of deliberately missing and not discarding the tordepo to continually cause stress

(While stress is powerful, foregoing damage to do it is probably not worth the opportunity cost)

- Veteran Instincts (1pt; EPS) is always a reasonable option

- Engine Upgrade (4 pts; Modification) is good on practically any ship (that doesn't naturally have boost)

- Stealth Device (3 pts; Modification) is generally a poor choice on any ship with an agility less than 3

- Heavy Laser Cannon (7 pts; Cannon) is awesome if you can afford the points

-'Buzzsaw Combo' of Fire Control System (2 pts; System) plus Gunner (5pts; Crew) is powerful on any ship that can take both (Shuttle; B-Wing [+1pt for BWing/E2 Modification])

- Draw their fire (1pt; EPS) and R2-D2 (4pts; Astromech) are a good way to keep a teammate alive a little bit longer (Named X-Wing & E-Wings only)

- Expose (4pts; EPS) is generally bad

- Autoblaster (5pts; Cannon) is generally bad

Remember these are just guidelines and there are exceptions to every rule.

What additions or changes would you suggest?

Tren

EDIT: Comments from below incorporated

list your ships by most offensive from 1 to however many ships you have. now list your ships in terms of most defensive from 1 to however many ships you have. If you're looking at close to the same list you have a good squad.

I would add this.

1. order your ships by their offense
2. order your ships by their defense
3. make sure those lists match

Not bad, Tren. One thing needs clarification. The "Buzzsaw" is the nickname for the FCS+Gunner combo, not FCS+HLC. As the game grows, so will it's lexicon of shorthand, and I think it best to aim for consistency in that regard to avoid confusion.

@Kelvan & MrFroggles: nice... will include

@Ansible ... thank-you for the correction... <Edited above>

I'd add something about being careful about adding upgrades that require an action to use. I think that's a trap that's easy to fall into.

When I started building lists I only looked at total number of guns (ships) and how powerful those guns were (red dice rolling). I had loose numbers of how many red dice I'd like to have and how many ships I'd feel comfortable fielding.

However, more recently, I've discovered that building lists based on ship roles is vital. What I mean by this is that I prefer to have ships that can handle a variety of abilities while at the same time forming some type of synergy with each other.

First, if possible, I start with a high pilot skill ace. In this example I'll pick Soontir Fel. And what is the Baron without Push the Limit. Pretty standard...30 points. Fel is highly maneuverable but weak against turrets. If he can't get out of arc and gets focused he could go down quick. So to kind of cover this weakness I wanted some type of tanky ship to accompany him. In this example I'll choose a Delta Squadron Defender (30 pts). The Delta squadron has 3 in all stats, which means excellent defense and firepower. In an ideal situation it can be a 'tank' for your opponent to focus on while Soontir flanks. Now that I have my Ace and a ship to help compliment him, I can fill in the gaps. I've got 40 points left. You can go a number of directions in this example but I wanted some more blockers and a number of guns, so I chose three Academy Pilots (36 pts). I've got 4 points left so I'll stick a hull upgrade on Soontir. I end up with a well rounded squad...I've got some beef and some firepower and an Ace to round it all out.

I generally follow these steps now when building. Choose a single ship as your starting point and build around it by complimenting it. If you have a specific strategy that can start with your first ship and then grow into something you didn't think was possible (or feasible). I still think about the total number of guns and the firepower my squad is bringing, but I no longer have hard numbers set in my head. I instead focus on what my ships can do for me and how they can work together to my advantage.

Paul Heaver mentioned something about building for defense, then offense.

Expect your green dice to fail and plan\play accordingly.

I was under the impression that the advanced was over-priced not weak. Never played it but that's the impression I got reading the forums.

@WWHSD - now included

@Deepspace5 - Good advice, but I wonder if its the next step once a beginner is comfortable putting together lists

@Tuls - Good point, updated though I'm not sure a beginner would understand the distinction

I would add this.

1. order your ships by their offense
2. order your ships by their defense
3. make sure those lists match

Scott and I got this from Theorist... here are some good articles in regard to list building

http://teamcovenant.com/theorist/ (some of his very old stuff has specifics to list builiding basics)

http://teamcovenant.com/theorist/2014/04/05/building-ships-to-perform/

Infinite flechette: put in an Accuracy Corrector, as you can cancel all hits and it is optional to add two hits.

- Do not spend more than 25 points on any ship with less than 3 Dice attack

- The TIE Advanced is generally considered weak for its points cost (except Darth Vader who is a total boss!)

First you auto-exclude Vader, then suddnly hes' a total boss ...

Do you man this fluff-wise?

If your opponent brings lots of TIE interceptors with stealth devices, autoblasters are bloody brilliant.

My most opponent brings the above.

Not to put a damper on things, but would not recommend the 'Infinite Flechette' tactic. Purposefully negating your damage to add stress isn't going to do you any favors the majority of the time. The possibility of doing up to 3 damage AND a stress is what makes flechettes amazing (against ships with less hull, of course). Munitions failsafe can still be worth taking, but I wouldn't use it to deliberately miss.

@Tren - It definitely could be the NEXT step, but if you are dealing with true beginners we may want to simplify things. As a beginner, I'd just recommending starting with a ship you like and try to compliment it's role or style of flying. You want to keep it about fun (using a ship you like) but still not get stomped as bad when you start due to your list.

Consider using your current guidelines without considering roles or favorite ship: A 4x OGP shuttle squad would be viable...but is it beginner friendly?

It hits everything on the basic guidelines.

4 ships

15 points in upgrades with 1 pt initiative bid

Not overspending for ship/ship has 3 attack

12 attack dice total

20 shields and 20 hull (40 total HP)

Generic Pilots

Line them up Offense/Defense for review and they seem balanced.

While this squad could be great if flown correctly, I wouldn't recommend it to beginners because the ships all share in the same role (tanky heavy hitter) and weakness (maneuverability/low agility). It looks great on paper if you aren't considering the ship's role, but if you ARE you'd realize that you could get more mileage out of your squad if you put some other types of ships in the list (maybe even add your favorite ones). Random side note: I wouldn't want to buy 4 shuttles as a beginner player...

Anyway...

If you are truly a beginner, focus on flying different ships and get comfortable with how they move. Once you figure out what ships you like, start your lists there. Once you nail down the ships you want to use, fly them a few times while experiementing with the upgrades they can use. See for yourself how different ordinace or crew members perform on your favorite ships. You can learn what's useful or fun from having first-hand experience with using the various upgrades.

@DariusAPB - I totally agree. Don't discount the Autoblaster. It seems expensive and limiting, but it can be amazing. You just have to make it happen.

As a final note, I support the generic guildelines as things to 'consider', but not hard rules. If want to spend 25 points on Jan Ors, I shouldn't be deterred because of her low attack. Her role is a support ship and she can be used to great effect in many lists.

When helping new players construct lists, I try to keep the moving parts to a minimum. The less they have to remember and assimilate the better. So straight forward pilot abilities and a minimum of upgrades. This allows them to just fly and try to shoot some spaceships I would only add a couple things to your list:

-If you can, keep the squads ps's on the same number. This really helps new players not get in their own way.

-Band new players will probably like x's and TIE's the most. Use them. They are easy to learn and the most recognizable.

After a few games most players have seen or read some ability they want to try, so when helping these players I take their preferred pilot/upgrade and try to support it so it can live longer or get used. Nobody likes trying a new pilot out for the first time just to see him go down in flames before that bitchin' ability kicks in.

I was reading through your list getting ready to do lots and lots of edits but I was reading through it I was surprised to find that I agreed with all bullet points! Nicely done! This is a great guideline for new and more experienced players alike.

Thanks for this! As a brand spanking new player (just picked up my stuff this week) I am stuffing my head full of new acronyms, rules, and daydreaming about builds. And that's where I was running into problems: what's a basic build strategy across the board? I'm also new to wargaming in general, too. So, this is a big help.

I don't understand:

- To review your completed list... line up your ships by offense, and then by defense; try to align these orders as much as possible to ensure a balanced list

What exactly is that doing and how is it balanced? And why is that good?

I don't understand:

- To review your completed list... line up your ships by offense, and then by defense; try to align these orders as much as possible to ensure a balanced list

What exactly is that doing and how is it balanced? And why is that good?

I think the point is that your biggest threats should also be the hardest to kill since they will be the ship that your opponent will most want to remove from the board.

Thanks for this! As a brand spanking new player (just picked up my stuff this week) I am stuffing my head full of new acronyms, rules, and daydreaming about builds. And that's where I was running into problems: what's a basic build strategy across the board? I'm also new to wargaming in general, too. So, this is a big help.

Welcome to the game Kamicosmos!

At the most basic level, I recommend playing with a ship(s) you enjoy. If you like specific Star Wars Universe pilots...go with them and see how you like them. Test a few different ships if you don't have a preference. If you play what you like you will have a more enjoyable time. Nearly every ship is viable in the game in some manner at this point, so it shouldn't be hard to include your favorite.

Like others have said in this thread, start simple with just ships. Add upgrades after you get familiar with how different ships fly. When you do add upgrades, just start with a few.

Another very basic build strategy is to know that your actions are valuable. Be cautious when using an upgrade that takes your action to perform.

Aiming to have at least 16 hull and shield is a tad rebel biased I think. After all, 5 TIE fighters (and/or interceptors) weigh in at 15 hull

Aiming to have at least 16 hull and shield is a tad rebel biased I think. After all, 5 TIE fighters (and/or interceptors) weigh in at 15 hull

5 tie fighters is also a little light too.

@TheRealStarKiller: As per the final line of the guidelines "these are just guidelines and there are exceptions to every rule". (Also Vader is awesome from a fluff-wise point of view!)

@Deepspace5: I agree with your advice for a beginner who is buying into the game and wants to learn it in depth. It is best to play a lot with something you like and grow upon your experience (like kamicosmos above). Unstated in my original post was that the people I play with: use my ships, are experienced gamers, only played every month or so and therefore don't want to go all-in on one tactic. For these players, a 4-shuttle build would be entirely reasonable. (Assuming I had 4!). Also I agree infinite fletchettes is probably being too cute.

I've found that it's very easy to get bogged down with upgrading this and that whilst trying to be clever.

After I've come up with a plan I always sanity check by comparing to 4 basic x wings (if I'm rebel) or 8 basic ties (if I'm imperial). It's quite surprising how many times I then abandon my cunning plan when I realise that I've come up with something worse.