Activation Rules for Docking

Carrier Huge Ship

When a carrier huge ship executes a maneuver and the final position of one of its sections overlaps one or more friendly small or large ships, the small or large ships overlapped by the huge ship are immediately placed off the side of the field and the huge ship completes its maneuver. The huge ship does not skip its “Perform Action” step.

Each friendly small or large ship removed this way gains a blue docking token and removes all other tokens attached to it, and the huge ship gains a matching red docking token.

Small/Large ships

During an activation phase if a small or large ship has not taken an action, it may dock with a carrier huge ship it is touching. Remove all other tokens attached to the small or large ship, place it off the side of the field and give it a blue docking token. The carrier huge ship gains a matching red token.

Other Docking rules

Ships with blue docking tokens may not affect, nor be affected by any other ships. Ships may discard their blue docking token at the begining of a subsequent activation phase to undock and return to the field. Undocking ships are deployed touching any part of the carrier huge ship and recieve one ion token and one stress token. Discard the matching red docking token.

Cards that can utilize docking

Mechanic Team - Team Limited Once per round you may spend one energy to remove one damage card from a single small or large ship docked with this ship. You must remove facedown cards before removing faceup cards.

Small Energy Generator - Cargo Limited At the end of each round, you may spend 1 energy to allow one small or large ship docked with this ship to recover 1 shield.

Rearmament Station - Cargo Limited Discard this card to return one discarded non-unique upgrade card to a small or large ship docked with this one.

The Damage deck would have crits that mess up the docked ships as well. So a crit might deal 1 damage card to each ship docked with the carrier, or flip all facedown damage cards face up.

And they cant stay hidden in there forever:

Concusion charges - a bomb that acts like a proximity mine, it deals 1 face down damage card to a huge ship and all ships that are currently docked with it.

Agent Saboteur - If you are touching a huge ship, discard this card to do deal 2 face down damage cards to that huge ship or one small or large ship currently docked with it.

Assault Team - Team Limited If this ship is within range 1 of an opponents huge ship, discard this card to deal 2 hull damage to one ship docked with the opposing huge ship.

I don't think cards specifically targeting docked ships when it will be an incredibly rare mechanic is a good idea. You've got a high chance of the upgrades being useless. If you look even at FFG's hard counters they have utility against almost everything.

If you feel docking needs counters to it (by my assessment it doesn't look particularly overpowered) make bombs that hit a Huge Ship deal their effect to every ship docked to that section as well.

I don't think cards specifically targeting docked ships when it will be an incredibly rare mechanic is a good idea. You've got a high chance of the upgrades being useless. If you look even at FFG's hard counters they have utility against almost everything.

If you feel docking needs counters to it (by my assessment it doesn't look particularly overpowered) make bombs that hit a Huge Ship deal their effect to every ship docked to that section as well.

I agree with this assessment. As an RPer I've come to accept that both docking and boarding actions are best handled out of or between X-wing missions via a separate mechanic.

Or simply leave the docked ship in base contact with the epic ship, and rule that while the docked ship may be targeted, for damage purposes it is the epic ship's shields that are affected. That way you have a protection perk to docking, and the docked ship isn't invulnerable to everything unless you have, say, the Internal Docking Bay ship upgrade.

I don't think cards specifically targeting docked ships when it will be an incredibly rare mechanic is a good idea. You've got a high chance of the upgrades being useless. If you look even at FFG's hard counters they have utility against almost everything.

If you feel docking needs counters to it (by my assessment it doesn't look particularly overpowered) make bombs that hit a Huge Ship deal their effect to every ship docked to that section as well.

It would be for Epic Games, which you could expect to have other huge ships. Hopefully once the empire gets their hige ship, the epic rules will require a huge ship in every build.

Also I already had listed a bomb/mine in the list that matches that you suggested.

Or simply leave the docked ship in base contact with the epic ship, and rule that while the docked ship may be targeted, for damage purposes it is the epic ship's shields that are affected. That way you have a protection perk to docking, and the docked ship isn't invulnerable to everything unless you have, say, the Internal Docking Bay ship upgrade.

But Epic ships move after all the other ships, and there is a really good chance you could get run over that way. In my mind it is easier to pull them off, than it is to try and make balanced rules for staying in contact with the huge ship at all times.

In fact, the placement issues are why I put the ion/stress on them. Fluff wise it represents dropping directly into a firefight. Gameplay wise it makes it so that you can't just scoop up a ship and spit it out anywhere you'd like without penalty.

This is looking like a solution in search of a problem. Tactically, what advantage do you hope to gain from docking? What risk is worth the reward? In short, why would you do this in the middle of a fast-paced tactical battle that may only last a minute or two in 'real' time? Remember that the time frame that X-Wing operates under is really short. There may be a good reason for a single scenario to need a (simple) docking mechanic, but I don't see the need for a general set of rules, much less specific cards.

This is looking like a solution in search of a problem. Tactically, what advantage do you hope to gain from docking? What risk is worth the reward? In short, why would you do this in the middle of a fast-paced tactical battle that may only last a minute or two in 'real' time? Remember that the time frame that X-Wing operates under is really short. There may be a good reason for a single scenario to need a (simple) docking mechanic, but I don't see the need for a general set of rules, much less specific cards.

I may be doing it wrong, but my epic games can take a few hours. This would be far less time consuming than the 12 tie swarm planning out their movement.

It is a 'solution' to anything, it is a fun idea to be able to dock. If the Gozanti ends up being the next huge ship, it would be fitting if it had some sort of docking procedure.

This is a FLUFF desire with some rules to try and keep it balanced.

Oh also a tactical advantage is pulling in a high cost ship and spending a few turns getting it back into flying shape.

I may be doing it wrong, but my epic games can take a few hours. This would be far less time consuming than the 12 tie swarm planning out their movement.

It is a 'solution' to anything, it is a fun idea to be able to dock. If the Gozanti ends up being the next huge ship, it would be fitting if it had some sort of docking procedure.

This is a FLUFF desire with some rules to try and keep it balanced.

Oh also a tactical advantage is pulling in a high cost ship and spending a few turns getting it back into flying shape.

I think you missed the point about time scale. Even though regular games take an hour or so, and epic games go longer, in terms of the 'in-game' time that they represent, the battles only last a minute or two. That you suggest that there is sufficient time to repair a ship in the time scale of a battle indicates that there is confusion about the time scale.

I may be doing it wrong, but my epic games can take a few hours. This would be far less time consuming than the 12 tie swarm planning out their movement.

It is a 'solution' to anything, it is a fun idea to be able to dock. If the Gozanti ends up being the next huge ship, it would be fitting if it had some sort of docking procedure.

This is a FLUFF desire with some rules to try and keep it balanced.

Oh also a tactical advantage is pulling in a high cost ship and spending a few turns getting it back into flying shape.

I think you missed the point about time scale. Even though regular games take an hour or so, and epic games go longer, in terms of the 'in-game' time that they represent, the battles only last a minute or two. That you suggest that there is sufficient time to repair a ship in the time scale of a battle indicates that there is confusion about the time scale.

Have you watched proffesional car racing? Those pit crews can do an amazing amount of work in less than 10 seconds. I get that it is only supposed to be less than a minute per round, but based on the star wars films the space fights take longer than that.

This game plays fast and loose with the fluff already it extends the amount of health she ships have without accounting for the how much longer that would make the scenes in the movies. Every TIE/ln I have seen in the movies has exactly 1 hull point. You can breath on them funny and they pop. If they really took multiple hits to kill it would extend the time period of dogfights significantly.

I don't think cards specifically targeting docked ships when it will be an incredibly rare mechanic is a good idea. You've got a high chance of the upgrades being useless. If you look even at FFG's hard counters they have utility against almost everything.

If you feel docking needs counters to it (by my assessment it doesn't look particularly overpowered) make bombs that hit a Huge Ship deal their effect to every ship docked to that section as well.

It would be for Epic Games, which you could expect to have other huge ships. Hopefully once the empire gets their hige ship, the epic rules will require a huge ship in every build.

Also I already had listed a bomb/mine in the list that matches that you suggested.

You misunderstand. I said make all bombs hit all ships docked to the section. I'm saying having a specific bomb that specifically targets the docking mechanic is unwise, because if the opponent doesn't have a carrier then it's wasted points. You don't go into an Epic Game certain a Tantive's going to turn up. Even hard counters have some universal utility: your anti-docking upgrades are wasted points if no docking ship appears.

I can say for near certain they will never make Huges compulsory in Epic because it would prevent it from being played by players that only own one Huge Ship.

Have you watched proffesional car racing? Those pit crews can do an amazing amount of work in less than 10 seconds. I get that it is only supposed to be less than a minute per round, but based on the star wars films the space fights take longer than that.

This game plays fast and loose with the fluff already it extends the amount of health she ships have without accounting for the how much longer that would make the scenes in the movies. Every TIE/ln I have seen in the movies has exactly 1 hull point. You can breath on them funny and they pop. If they really took multiple hits to kill it would extend the time period of dogfights significantly.

Except that repairing battle damage is nothing like changing a tire or filling a tank full of gas. The game really does account for how long it takes to kill ships in the movies. Each round is on the order of a few seconds, not a minute. If you watch an extended battle (say, from ROTJ) the ships do get killed left and right. It only takes a few seconds' worth of shooting to kill even the Rebel ships.

I'd like to expand on why I don't think this is a good idea.

Source material - the games, movies, Rebels series,

99% of the time escort fighters have already been launched well in advance of combat engagement - this is by design, in the instances that this is not the case that's a special scenario, mission control can do that.

Returning to base: A standard off board disengagement more or less simulates this, for smaller ships like the gozanti or carrack a fighter attaches externally, not in a bay. There are examples of smaller huge ships with hangar bays but they are an exception - not the rule. moving into them with a 2 straight maneuvre or slower AND action-docking / action tractor beam from the carrier would be needed. Barely worth doing.

Returning close to a carrier ship such as a Neb B, ISD etc.

Standard disengagement + off board artillery a'la escape from hoth scenario 2.

I've barked up similar trees before with questions RE boarding mechanics. I'd still like to see something like it, but I believe currently that would best be played out with a different game system inbetween x-wing games, example - mission 1 protect a boarding shuttle as it gets from A to B.

mission 2 Fly cover, ship and shuttle being centre of board big terrain whatever. Mission 3 Extract out, or protect big ship, or whatever.

Ultimately a mechanic would be nice as a special scenario, but shouldn't be permanently attached to any ship.

I tend to agree with all the arguments presented here so far. It would be cool to have a docking option/rules for it in this game in Epic play. And I think that the OP has some good ideas about how to go about it. I also agree that the "real time" of a game of xwing is minutes and that docking and reloading or getting repairs seems unfeasible. Maybe just have a "undocking" mechanic so fighters could benefit from the huge ships shields until later in the game, when they indock and fly normally. This would kind of harken back to the aircraft carriers of WW2 on which that wars dogfights space combat in SW was modeled off of. Huge ships could scramble fighters as an action or something.

Also the idea of the huge ship automatically docking any ship they overlap is a bad idea. Someone could just say "I want to dock" after making a bad move and hitting their own ships. The small ships should have to bump the huge ship.

I don't think cards specifically targeting docked ships when it will be an incredibly rare mechanic is a good idea. You've got a high chance of the upgrades being useless. If you look even at FFG's hard counters they have utility against almost everything.

If you feel docking needs counters to it (by my assessment it doesn't look particularly overpowered) make bombs that hit a Huge Ship deal their effect to every ship docked to that section as well.

It would be for Epic Games, which you could expect to have other huge ships. Hopefully once the empire gets their hige ship, the epic rules will require a huge ship in every build.

Also I already had listed a bomb/mine in the list that matches that you suggested.

You misunderstand. I said make all bombs hit all ships docked to the section. I'm saying having a specific bomb that specifically targets the docking mechanic is unwise, because if the opponent doesn't have a carrier then it's wasted points. You don't go into an Epic Game certain a Tantive's going to turn up. Even hard counters have some universal utility: your anti-docking upgrades are wasted points if no docking ship appears.

I can say for near certain they will never make Huges compulsory in Epic because it would prevent it from being played by players that only own one Huge Ship.

You are correct, I misunderstood. I like your idea of all bombs affecting docked ships.

I didn't mean that you could only use Huge ships, just that a team should include one. I am not sure why that would preclude people from being able to play if they only had one huge ship. If you mean they couldn't have a team on both sides, then yes, that is true. But that argument applies to ships in general: If I don't have any imperial ships, I can't field an imperial squad.

Also the idea of the huge ship automatically docking any ship they overlap is a bad idea. Someone could just say "I want to dock" after making a bad move and hitting their own ships. The small ships should have to bump the huge ship.

That is a very good point.

I tend to agree with all the arguments presented here so far. It would be cool to have a docking option/rules for it in this game in Epic play. And I think that the OP has some good ideas about how to go about it. I also agree that the "real time" of a game of xwing is minutes and that docking and reloading or getting repairs seems unfeasible. Maybe just have a "undocking" mechanic so fighters could benefit from the huge ships shields until later in the game, when they indock and fly normally. This would kind of harken back to the aircraft carriers of WW2 on which that wars dogfights space combat in SW was modeled off of. Huge ships could scramble fighters as an action or something.

In WW2, if your fighters were caught on deck, they were usually destroyed on deck. You want your fighters in the air (or out in space), so they can use their agility. I can see an individual scenario, where a huge ship is surprised and it needs to scramble its fighters. As a general tactic, however, I think that you would lose a whole lot more by waiting. Generally, ships are more important than the fighters that they carry, so why wouldn't you overwhelm a huge, and freely kill its fighters in the process? Or wait until they are at their most vulnerable (at launch), and pop the fighters as they come out?

I tend to agree with all the arguments presented here so far. It would be cool to have a docking option/rules for it in this game in Epic play. And I think that the OP has some good ideas about how to go about it. I also agree that the "real time" of a game of xwing is minutes and that docking and reloading or getting repairs seems unfeasible. Maybe just have a "undocking" mechanic so fighters could benefit from the huge ships shields until later in the game, when they indock and fly normally. This would kind of harken back to the aircraft carriers of WW2 on which that wars dogfights space combat in SW was modeled off of. Huge ships could scramble fighters as an action or something.

In WW2, if your fighters were caught on deck, they were usually destroyed on deck. You want your fighters in the air (or out in space), so they can use their agility. I can see an individual scenario, where a huge ship is surprised and it needs to scramble its fighters. As a general tactic, however, I think that you would lose a whole lot more by waiting. Generally, ships are more important than the fighters that they carry, so why wouldn't you overwhelm a huge, and freely kill its fighters in the process? Or wait until they are at their most vulnerable (at launch), and pop the fighters as they come out?

A lot of valid points in there. I do think that being able to heal a smaller ship and/or pull it in when it is about to get shot to hell could be useful and fun. Example:

Bob: Oh man remember that time I had five TIEs aimed at your Wedge, I was totally going to obliterate him.

Other Bob: Oh yeah, that was crazy. If I wasn't able to dock him, that would have royally sucked.

Bob: Yeah, but I nearly got him anyway, that carrier only had 2 hull left when my ties were done.

Other Bob:Fortunately you had to peel away and I was able drop wedge behind you for a couple of pot shots.

Bob: I wouldn't call it fortunate, but it was memorable. Anyway wanna grab some beer or something?

Other Bob: Sure thing Bob, lets just clean up the mess you made when you flipped the table first.

I tend to agree with all the arguments presented here so far. It would be cool to have a docking option/rules for it in this game in Epic play. And I think that the OP has some good ideas about how to go about it. I also agree that the "real time" of a game of xwing is minutes and that docking and reloading or getting repairs seems unfeasible. Maybe just have a "undocking" mechanic so fighters could benefit from the huge ships shields until later in the game, when they indock and fly normally. This would kind of harken back to the aircraft carriers of WW2 on which that wars dogfights space combat in SW was modeled off of. Huge ships could scramble fighters as an action or something.

In WW2, if your fighters were caught on deck, they were usually destroyed on deck. You want your fighters in the air (or out in space), so they can use their agility. I can see an individual scenario, where a huge ship is surprised and it needs to scramble its fighters. As a general tactic, however, I think that you would lose a whole lot more by waiting. Generally, ships are more important than the fighters that they carry, so why wouldn't you overwhelm a huge, and freely kill its fighters in the process? Or wait until they are at their most vulnerable (at launch), and pop the fighters as they come out?

True but in WW2, the carriers didn't have shields that would envelop a docked ship on its deck. If they had, I bet more commanders of carriers would have tried to launch their fighters after the initial engagement until some of the anti aircraft guns were gone. Also when a carrier got caught with its pants down and its fighters weren't scrambled, they usually were unsuspecting of an attack at all. If they had known and the pilots were already in their fighters, then I bet it wouldn't have been so bad(assuming the above shieid scenario, of course!!) That way you could launch your fighters at a moments notice(1 game turn) and be good to go. I do agree that a plane was more vulnerable during launch. This could be incorporated into the launch system. Maybe minus 1 agility the turn it launches? Might be good.

True but in WW2, the carriers didn't have shields that would envelop a docked ship on its deck. If they had, I bet more commanders of carriers would have tried to launch their fighters after the initial engagement until some of the anti aircraft guns were gone. Also when a carrier got caught with its pants down and its fighters weren't scrambled, they usually were unsuspecting of an attack at all. If they had known and the pilots were already in their fighters, then I bet it wouldn't have been so bad(assuming the above shieid scenario, of course!!) That way you could launch your fighters at a moments notice(1 game turn) and be good to go. I do agree that a plane was more vulnerable during launch. This could be incorporated into the launch system. Maybe minus 1 agility the turn it launches? Might be good.

I was thinking of the Battle of Midway, of course. I would argue that agility should be down to 1 or 0, since even with inertial dampeners, ships don't go from zero to battle speed that quickly. There should be a real vulnerability to balance out the advantage. After all, most of the time fighters are launched outside of battle range. This must happen for a reason.

True but in WW2, the carriers didn't have shields that would envelop a docked ship on its deck. If they had, I bet more commanders of carriers would have tried to launch their fighters after the initial engagement until some of the anti aircraft guns were gone. Also when a carrier got caught with its pants down and its fighters weren't scrambled, they usually were unsuspecting of an attack at all. If they had known and the pilots were already in their fighters, then I bet it wouldn't have been so bad(assuming the above shieid scenario, of course!!) That way you could launch your fighters at a moments notice(1 game turn) and be good to go. I do agree that a plane was more vulnerable during launch. This could be incorporated into the launch system. Maybe minus 1 agility the turn it launches? Might be good.

I was thinking of the Battle of Midway, of course. I would argue that agility should be down to 1 or 0, since even with inertial dampeners, ships don't go from zero to battle speed that quickly. There should be a real vulnerability to balance out the advantage. After all, most of the time fighters are launched outside of battle range. This must happen for a reason.

Good point. Maybe 1 agilty and only white or green maneuvers?

True but in WW2, the carriers didn't have shields that would envelop a docked ship on its deck. If they had, I bet more commanders of carriers would have tried to launch their fighters after the initial engagement until some of the anti aircraft guns were gone. Also when a carrier got caught with its pants down and its fighters weren't scrambled, they usually were unsuspecting of an attack at all. If they had known and the pilots were already in their fighters, then I bet it wouldn't have been so bad(assuming the above shieid scenario, of course!!) That way you could launch your fighters at a moments notice(1 game turn) and be good to go. I do agree that a plane was more vulnerable during launch. This could be incorporated into the launch system. Maybe minus 1 agility the turn it launches? Might be good.

I was thinking of the Battle of Midway, of course. I would argue that agility should be down to 1 or 0, since even with inertial dampeners, ships don't go from zero to battle speed that quickly. There should be a real vulnerability to balance out the advantage. After all, most of the time fighters are launched outside of battle range. This must happen for a reason.

That is what the stress and Ion tokens are for. No actions and a ramp up speed wise. Agility doesn't represent acceleration in all ships, and having a penalty like that would unfairly benefit the slower ships. A stress and ion token affect all ships equally.

Good point. Maybe 1 agilty and only white or green maneuvers?

I would go as far as 1 agility, and one of the slowest white or green maneuvers. So an A-Wing could do a 1-Hard Turn (white), a 2-Bank (green), or a 2-Straight (green), but not a 5-Straight or a 2-Hard Turn.

What about ONLY green straights, but any speed?