Story was very vanilla for Dan Abnett, he's better than this. Character models and animation was massively dissapointing. Firewarrior on PS2 had better cut scenes. Altough I 'll admit that it's not easy to animate a guy in armor that must weight a ton, but who moves faster than a normal human (Initiative 4). But they did odd stuff, like having the thunderhawk drop them off so far away from the objective. It's not like the black legion had tons of anti aircraft guns. They could have taken a Rhino is all i'm saying. And they left the landspeeder behind! Tech heresy! Gaaaah!!

Besides, I'm not sure how everyone else imagines Space Marines to move, but I think it'd look comically wrong to have such huge troopers jump around like they're 16 year old ballerinas.

Well, I do know some novels have depicted Space Marines moving as little more than blurs, in some cases moving faster than Guardsmen could track with their naked eyes, and even occasionally deflecting bullets (I can recall at least one quote in which a Space Marine stopped a bolter round by deflecting it with his bare hand).

Also, while Bolters are armor-piercing they're armor piercing with regards to punching through stuff like Flak Armor. 3+ saves on Space Marines means as far as tabletop goes, even Heavy Bolters have trouble getting through Power Armor.

If you want to see how terrible animation and what an utter place holder the Space Marine movie was, have a look at Lord Inquisitor:

Well, I do know some novels have depicted Space Marines moving as little more than blurs, in some cases moving faster than Guardsmen could track with their naked eyes, and even occasionally deflecting bullets (I can recall at least one quote in which a Space Marine stopped a bolter round by deflecting it with his bare hand).

Yeah ... novels, is all I can say. They have some crazy stuff in them sometimes.

Matter of preferences, though - I prefer GW's own approach, but technically speaking, there is no right or wrong, as far as the fluff is concerned. I still maintain it'd look ridiculous in a movie, tho!

Also, while Bolters are armor-piercing they're armor piercing with regards to punching through stuff like Flak Armor. 3+ saves on Space Marines means as far as tabletop goes, even Heavy Bolters have trouble getting through Power Armor.

Dammit, you're right about the heavy bolters; for some reason I had 4+ in mind ... but that was carapace, come to think of it.

Still, armour saves even being necessary means that technically anything you can encounter on the battlefield can punch through it, even if not everything is guaranteed to do so. I would agree that it'd be better represented by explosive detonations on the surface, blowing off chunks of ceramite and leaving bleeding wounds, though.

Was it really shown as if the ammunition would fly straight through the Marines? It's been some time since I saw it.

Well, I do know some novels have depicted Space Marines moving as little more than blurs, in some cases moving faster than Guardsmen could track with their naked eyes, and even occasionally deflecting bullets (I can recall at least one quote in which a Space Marine stopped a bolter round by deflecting it with his bare hand).

Yeah ... novels, is all I can say. They have some crazy stuff in them sometimes.

Matter of preferences, though - I prefer GW's own approach, but technically speaking, there is no right or wrong, as far as the fluff is concerned. I still maintain it'd look ridiculous in a movie, tho!

Also, while Bolters are armor-piercing they're armor piercing with regards to punching through stuff like Flak Armor. 3+ saves on Space Marines means as far as tabletop goes, even Heavy Bolters have trouble getting through Power Armor.

While i agree that SM moving as blurs to normal human eyes is a bit rediculous and better kept to the likes of primarchs or super sayians, I will bring up a horus heresy novel (yes, the novels- I know...) where the the SM were getting nowhere shooting at the entrenched enemies, but when they charged, the sight of something so big and bulky moving at such fast speeds caused a psychological reaction in the enemy that gave the SM the opening they needed to storm their positions.

@Lynata

I think that at the time that GW should have asked Graham Mcneil (he of most of the ultramrine novels) to do the scenario, i think Dan has gotten better at writing them. As of "know no fear" they have become something like a cross between Tsun Tzu and Batman, having plans and strategies for everything. His style has also changed recently: while "Know no fear" was a combination of his old Gaunts Ghosts style and comes across as "Seconds from disaster: Calth", his new book "The Unremembered Empire" reads quite diffrently and is very good. Plus he made the AL and Nighthaunter look boss, wich is always good.

Was it really shown as if the ammunition would fly straight through the Marines? It's been some time since I saw it.

Yeah, pretty much. The "good guy" Space Marines were a little hardier but that seems more due to their physical toughness than anything else. The Chaos Marines on the other hand were going down about as easily as the Uruk-Hai in Lord of the Rings to Legolas's arrows. Either way, the power armor seemed about as effective as paper mache. Even a chainsword was ripping through it with almost no resistance.

See, selective memory can be a boon as well as a curse...

In terms of visual effects, I rather like how the Space Marine videogame did it.

While i agree that SM moving as blurs to normal human eyes is a bit rediculous and better kept to the likes of primarchs or super sayians, I will bring up a horus heresy novel (yes, the novels- I know...) where the the SM were getting nowhere shooting at the entrenched enemies, but when they charged, the sight of something so big and bulky moving at such fast speeds caused a psychological reaction in the enemy that gave the SM the opening they needed to storm their positions.

Uh-oh, Horus Heresy .. the books where people shrug off Titan-grade weaponry.

But no, I'm with you on the psychological effect, sort of. To me, it'd be less about the speed and more about the sheer bulk, though. I kind of imagine charging Marines like little elephants, or enraged bulls. Something you just want to get out of the way of.

And thanks for the "update" on the authors' writing style!

Uh-oh, Horus Heresy .. the books where people shrug off Titan-grade weaponry.

Even better: Fulgrim going solo against a (I think a) Reaver titan, and casting Fleshy Curse on the princeps and moderati. Resulting in a reaver with a cockpit full of writhing mounds of flesh and tentacles.

Or the warhound trying to grind angron into the dust...and failing, altough this is just Angron being badass.

Yeah; Reading "the unremembered empire" had me going "Abnett wrote this?" severall times. Have you read "Necropolis" from the Gaunt's ghost series? At points it's like you're reading the historical textbooks rather than the story. "...carnage wich would only be matched when the gates fell open again three weeks later." I think he got that all out of his systhem with "know no fear". My fave authors are Aaron (not gonna try to get his last name right) and Graham Mcneil.

I dread to ask you which HH novelist you like...

I dread to ask you which HH novelist you like...

Aaron Dembski-Bowden, but that's more due to his attitude, openness and opinions - I have not read a single HH book to date; the subject matter isn't very interesting to my personal interests, and what I have heard in excerpts and descriptions from other fans only made me want to read them less .

Totally a matter of opinion, though. I understand the HH novels were written more as if someone took all those legends and myths from existing material and treated them as "this is how it was" rather than .. y'know, legends and myths that have some truth at their core, but otherwise mustn't be taken at face value. I assume it makes for a more epic and heroic read, but I prefer a more gritty, down-to-earth approach (as you may have guessed from my posts on various subjects)

That's not to say that I think it's all rubbish, mind you. For example, I did read the short story "The Last Church", and whilst I still don't agree with the contents, I thought it was well-written.