There is a lot of discussion regarding this or that being not good enough for competitive play such as ordinance, the TIE Advanced, etc. Plenty of fixes for all these problems have been thrown around from FAQs to new cards to whatever. We have some excellent examples of how FFG has fixed some of these issues in the past, like the newer more cost-effective Flechette Torpedoes or my personal favorite the Chardaan Refit.

My question is how would you, a player and purchaser of games, react to having a card in your collection rendered obsolete? I ask because I know the game designers read these forums and would like to get a mini-focus group response for them to examine as they consider ways to make everything in the game usable (a near-impossible goal, but the goal nonetheless).

If a card like Expose (a neat, but overcosted ability) was 'replaced' in some S&V set by an "I Have You Now" card that did the exact same thing but only cost 2 points how mad would you be?

In a similar vein, what would you say if an "Unguided Torpedoes" card came out that had 4 attack but no other special abilities and only cost 2 points?

New cards would not be needed. They could just reprint the old ones with different points values.

I have a higher opinion on the designers than for them to do blatant power creep like that.

I mean, look at how Expose is being seriously looked at thanks to the Decimator and/or the Experimental Interface. Look at how some are looking at Daredevil with Tycho and A-wing Test Pilot.

I have a higher opinion on the designers than for them to do blatant power creep like that.

I mean, look at how Expose is being seriously looked at thanks to the Decimator and/or the Experimental Interface. Look at how some are looking at Daredevil with Tycho and A-wing Test Pilot.

Alex Davy said in a Team Covenant interview at Worlds that he reads the forums. He may be blushing right now.

New cards would not be needed. They could just reprint the old ones with different points values.

Only fair (IMO) if they take my suggestion of printing a rules addendum with new point values for certain "over-costed" items; perhaps even printing "stickers" to apply to existing cards. I guess I'd be "really pissed" if something I paid money for became "disallowed" (vs "obsolete"). I fully accept (and expect) that some of my stuff maybe rendered "less competitive" by new releases or changes to the "meta-game"... But then, again, I say "F-the Meta"!

Or you accept that some cards are going to remain niche, and that it is impossible to design a game such as this where all cards will have equal value.

Why bother disallowing cards that don't work quite as well as they should, given the point cost

IF they decided they wanted to re-releases of "fixed cards", I think they should be packaged with an alternate paint ship.

Put out a TIE advanced, some rebel ship, and some S&V ship. Instead of including new pilots and upgrades, the fixed cards--and something like 5 of each copy. That way, people don't cry "shameless money grab!" To the high heavens. Flood the market with the new ones and the old ones can be discarded.

And people have a shiny new toy.

[card name] mark II is fine by me. I would prefer more than just a price difference though. New upgrades/pilots that make bad cards playable would be great.

Having a few 'unplayable' cards isn't the worst. It would be nearly impossible to totally balance any game, where the entire set of cards is viable.

Having an entirely 'unplayable' ship, such as the TIE-Advanced, is where FFG need to apply a fix.

And even then, "unplayable" is a tad bit too strong when you are talking about the Advanced.

And even then, "unplayable" is a tad bit too strong when you are talking about the Advanced.

I've actually been using a tempest with a Procket to great effect, it usually gets the hate of a couple enemy ships, survives the first round of shooting, doesn't get its rocket off, then hangs around until the time is right for that rocket to hit to great effect (of course there have been outliers where it has died in the 1st round or gotten its rocket off first round, but we're talking generalizations here)

It's hearty.

Im perfectly alright. If you made a mistake, it is ok to fix it by either printing the exact same card with altered stats (and errata to follow the new stats), or printing the same card with a new name and new stats

I'd be perfectly fine buying a card set with a few reprinted ship cards, some updated upgrade cards, some flight pegs. Call it the Mk 2 Booster or "****, you guys, we done goofed up good, but please buy this fix" pack for $10-15.
Think about it, Horton gets an EPT, lower the cost on generic Ewings so they see the light of day, fix Fel's Wrath, Major Rhymer, hell give the Imp Boba Fett some love. Easily 6-8 Pilot cards plus a host of tweaks for the old ordinance and all those astromechs that are terrible. They can even do an updated damage deck to make it more even between the factions (throw in some Astromech Crits). Hell I'll pay $20. Make the Mk 2 damage deck the only tourney legal one.
And before anyone gets all uppity about being force to buy something remember that a lot of other miniature games have rather released entire new editions costing players hundreds of dollars each than change a few key rules with erratas and some reprinted handbooks.

They're not going to errata anymore than they must. Much preferred for them to find uses for cards or let them be relatively rare. And for god's sake, there's not going to be a re-released deck.

it actually happened for a TCG that I used to play, where they realized they f-ed up the stats of some cards, so in subsequent prints the cards had the new corrected stats, and the old cards are still useable, but their stats errata-ed to follow the new cards instead. Both buffs and nerfs.

Community response was very positive, surprisingly. Everybody acknowledged the changes, and life goes on as if nothing happened.

The FAQ has some minor upgrade card rewordings for clarification. Other than those, what else is needed? I wouldn't want a game with a thousand bandages.

There's a difference between a thousand bandages and a dead body part, and I'm pretty sure the TIE Advanced nearly qualifies as Canseco's finger at this point.

I disagree. It has a bad rap because its strength is defensive rather than offensive. You can use that to your advantage by, for instance, moving into range 1 without fear of imminent death.

Proton rockets also help (5 dice), and more fixes are on the way according to the designers. I'm guessing it'll come as an escort in an Imperial epic ship with a host of upgrades, to include a systems slot so it can take Accuracy Corrector. Either way, the ship isn't broken and doesn't need to be reissued with new stats; it simply needed some suitable upgrades and open minds.

Problem is, an A-Wing is has a vastly better dial and costs four points less, the only tradeoff being a single hull point.

Why there does seem to be a little bit of power creep with the upgrades there are still some great cards from the core set that are still used today, Biggs is the one that comes to into mind.

However there are cards that at the time were functional but now not as efficient. For example Slave-1 title which was necessary for wave 2 as it gave imperial squadrons the capability for torpedo weapons but with the release of the TIE-bomber in wave 3 that can carry 2. Even the VT-49 decimator carries one so you don't see Slave 1 title because it is not needed as much as it was in Wave 2. With the upcoming wave 6 you will probably see more of the Andrasta Title than the Slave-1 title on Imperial Firespray-31s.

But with each wave the game meta changes and new cards tend to reappear. Take Horton for example. In Wave 3 you never saw him, With Wave 4 coming out and the need to do mass damage to heavy targets such as Fat Falcons and 4 hit point phantoms you see him returning dealing deadly proton torpedo shots to those targets.

If a good torpedo weapon shows up you might see Slave-1 make a come back but then again that weapons might be a broken "I win button" upgrade for it to be that powerful. Still some cards become good and others become not as useful.

Why there does seem to be a little bit of power creep with the upgrades there are still some great cards from the core set that are still used today, Biggs is the one that comes to into mind.

There's a siginficant difference between "power creep" and releasing new cards that are actually balanced. Take ordnance for example, there's really no doubt it was too much to pay. Then, they released munitions failure, which hasn't been enough either. So, they're left with releasing cards that fit the previous pricing model and then not having them see use, or making them cheaper so that players can actually make use of them.

I disagree. It has a bad rap because its strength is defensive rather than offensive. You can use that to your advantage by, for instance, moving into range 1 without fear of imminent death.

It's not just a bad rap. The problem with the advanced is that two attack dice ships need to fit one of two categories: 1) cheap (TIEs, Z's) or 2) provide support (HWKs).

It doesn't matter how resilient they are, because putting an expensive ship in your list that does not hit hard consistently really hurts a list overall and means you'll have trouble taking down the big ships that currently rule the game.

I don't think it's just by chance that no A-wings or Advanced ships made the top 32 at Worlds, and that's after Rebel Aces and the refit was released for the A-wing.

I say this as someone that loves flying a 39 point Vader (but his double actions, outmaneuver, and proton rockets make it workable).

I don't think it's just by chance that no A-wings or Advanced ships made the top 32 at Worlds, and that's after Rebel Aces and the refit was released for the A-wing.

Going forward, it is going to be real tough for all ships to have representation in the top tables. We do have more and more ships being released. There were A-wings at Worlds, though. And it sounds like they did okay, if just not the best.

I also remember people talking about how loading up a HWK was crazy. Hello 40pt Jan...