Rear Admiral Chiraneau + Gunner + Isard + Rebel Captive + Determination/VI + Engine

Soontir Fel + PTL + Title + Shield + Hull

Determination may work out better if VI isn't popular on Dash, otherwise VI will be strong vs. VI Dash and VI Whisper

The reason I prefer Gunner over the EI/Expose combo is that the mod slot is critical for the Engine, and being soft-restricted to green maneuvers every turn to get the extra attack die isn't worth it to me. Haven't tested it vs. Fat Han yet but it works nicely vs. 58 pt. Dash

Fat Ken is by far worse than Fat Falcons.

Commander Kenkirk + PTL + Moff Jerjerrod + Ysanne Isard + Rebel Captive + Engine Upgrade

Obsidian Tie x3

How it works:

Before you are reduced to 11 hull points = fly normally. Use PTL to Focus and TL.

Once you are at 11 hull, Ysanne Isard will activate.

Now you only take the Focus action on your turn. During the Combat Phase, after everything else has moved and you know everyone's arc, Ysanne activates and gives you a free evade action. You activate PTL off that evade action and you boost out of arcs.

This build makes Chiraneau harder to kill than a Falcon with C3P0. Jerjerrod can also unflip 2 crits that you dont like, saving you from nasty ones like Direct Hits.

Sure, you only get the agility and evade at 11 hull points, whereas the Falcon always has it, but the Falcon only had 13 damage, whereas the Devastator has 16. Ysanne and Kenkirk kick in a 2 hull less than the Falcon, which isnt that bad.

But its the combat phase arc dodging that is beastly.

If you really want to be nasty about it, swap the Obsidians for a pair of Scimitar+Proxy. 2 points left for initiative or a Seismic on Kenkirk (by the way, you typed Chiraneau once instead of Kenkirk).

It ought to add some decent fattie-killing ability since the Proxy mines laugh at 3P0.

Sure, you only get the agility and evade at 11 hull points, whereas the Falcon always has it, but the Falcon only had 13 damage, whereas the Devastator has 16. Ysanne and Kenkirk kick in a 2 hull less than the Falcon, which isnt that bad.

It's a minor quibble, but 11 hull points is necessarily when those abilities kick in. 11 hull is just the earliest that those abilities could kick in. Ysanne doesn't take place until the start of the first combat phase after the ship she's on is out of shields and has at least one damage card. Kenkirk's agility doesn't kick in until the next attack after getting that first damage card dealt. I don't think that it would be unusual for a VT-49 to take 8+ damage in the first turn from a lot of lists.

Like I said, it's a minor issue but something to keep in mind.

If you are VERY good, I'd expect you could get into R1 of dash every time from boost. Then, you can take PTL instead of daredevil. This bumps up your damage potential by giving you back a focus

Did you mean to stick the Dauntless title or Experimental Interface in there somehow? Otherwise I can't see how you'd trip Daredevil when bumping with Oicunn.

I dont expect to. cuz dauntless will stop your isard evade. now that you mention it though, yes. I'd take dauntless still. just in case, but rarely use it. two stress means youre pretty gimped.

Oh I see, you're talking about Daredevil just in case you can't bump your target? It'd still prohibit Isard but works great while you've got shields!

And honestly, for two points, I think Dauntless as a threat alone is totally worth it, never mind actually using it (although double-stressing to bump/Dauntless/Daredevil to finish off a Han or something would be priceless).

Unless you activate daredevil after isaard gives the evade.

I can see there being 3 builds/templates of the Decimator offensive, defensive, and run you over.

Chiraneau + EI + Expose + isaard(Honestly I can't see spending so many points on this ship and not having isaard so you don't die as fast) Is the template for the Offensive one, I could see EI and expose being dropped for gunner but I don't think you will do as much damage without expose.

Kenkirk + Isaard is pretty much the defensive one. This is most likely where you will see gunner, as well as jerjerod

Ociunn + Dauntless + Daredevil + isaard + EI and maybe a ion torp maybe gunner too

The non unique will fall into either the offensive or defensive builds.

I guess I should actually say I see all of them running isaard the ship is too pricey not too. I see every one of them except ociunn running either EI + expose or Gunner for the offensive boost. As we have seen with the falcon when you have so few shots they need to count or you are doomed. If you want a more lethal ship you will run chiraneau, more tanky will be kenkrik. As I pointed out earlier I would run and I imagine we will see it done this way the most chiraneau with EI and expose and kenkirk with gunner. I also imagine we will see alot of either mara or rebel captives on these ships.

There... is... anothhhhher....

DoomNarwhal

Not to get too terribly far off topic, but I've played against a Worlds top-16 player that ran Dash a few times (3p0, EU, HLC, title, maybe PTL) against a Phantom list and I was not terribly impressed. The phantom was all "sup Dash, I'll just stay in R1 and kill you in 3-4 turns, mkay?"

well, tahts what people have been saying. whisper actually is a good counter to dash

Not if you run VI instead of PTL on Dash. We tested his Barrel Roll and that alone is enough to take him out of Range 1 of even a ship that has bumped him, so I'm not sure needing a Barrel Roll and a Boost is necessary in one turn. PS9 might be more valuable.

Also, Whisper will always have one turn where she has to take fire from Dash before she can engage him at Range 1 unless Dash is flying full throttle toward her right off the bat. The key for Dash is to make that turn count. Even with a Cloak up, HLC should be doing some damage.

Yes. Agreed.

I am really hoping this does not turn out to be the case, as then the PS bid will be 9 AGAIN. And that makes the meta much more stale.

I expect there will be some VI variants though.

Either way, I intend to ram those MFas to death moving first.

Rear Admiral Chiraneau + Gunner + Isard + Rebel Captive + Determination/VI + Engine

Soontir Fel + PTL + Title + Shield + Hull

Determination may work out better if VI isn't popular on Dash, otherwise VI will be strong vs. VI Dash and VI Whisper

The reason I prefer Gunner over the EI/Expose combo is that the mod slot is critical for the Engine, and being soft-restricted to green maneuvers every turn to get the extra attack die isn't worth it to me. Haven't tested it vs. Fat Han yet but it works nicely vs. 58 pt. Dash

Agreed with the engine.

Most of these builds are going to be green-locked though. in some form. PTL for multiaction and after combat boosting. Daredevil for severe ramming.

Maybe we should call up Cap Yorr. Or a black with Wingman. I think that might be ok. 16 12 12.

My problem with this build (i came up with the same thing) is that you don't have a theoretical chance vs Fat Han i think.

Rear Admiral Chiraneau + Gunner + Isard + Rebel Captive + Determination/VI + Engine

Soontir Fel + PTL + Title + Shield + Hull

Determination may work out better if VI isn't popular on Dash, otherwise VI will be strong vs. VI Dash and VI Whisper

The reason I prefer Gunner over the EI/Expose combo is that the mod slot is critical for the Engine, and being soft-restricted to green maneuvers every turn to get the extra attack die isn't worth it to me. Haven't tested it vs. Fat Han yet but it works nicely vs. 58 pt. Dash

Agreed with the engine.

Most of these builds are going to be green-locked though. in some form. PTL for multiaction and after combat boosting. Daredevil for severe ramming.

Maybe we should call up Cap Yorr. Or a black with Wingman. I think that might be ok. 16 12 12.

My problem with this build (i came up with the same thing) is that you don't have a theoretical chance vs Fat Han i think.

True. A few TiEs sounds like the way to go then as far as support ships, if Fat Han is still popular. Wingman is sweet. I'm wondering how good a Black Squad with Ruthlessness will be.

If you are VERY good, I'd expect you could get into R1 of dash every time from boost. Then, you can take PTL instead of daredevil. This bumps up your damage potential by giving you back a focus

Did you mean to stick the Dauntless title or Experimental Interface in there somehow? Otherwise I can't see how you'd trip Daredevil when bumping with Oicunn.

I dont expect to. cuz dauntless will stop your isard evade. now that you mention it though, yes. I'd take dauntless still. just in case, but rarely use it. two stress means youre pretty gimped.

Oh I see, you're talking about Daredevil just in case you can't bump your target? It'd still prohibit Isard but works great while you've got shields!

And honestly, for two points, I think Dauntless as a threat alone is totally worth it, never mind actually using it (although double-stressing to bump/Dauntless/Daredevil to finish off a Han or something would be priceless).

Unless you activate daredevil after isaard gives the evade.

I can see there being 3 builds/templates of the Decimator offensive, defensive, and run you over.

Chiraneau + EI + Expose + isaard(Honestly I can't see spending so many points on this ship and not having isaard so you don't die as fast) Is the template for the Offensive one, I could see EI and expose being dropped for gunner but I don't think you will do as much damage without expose.

Kenkirk + Isaard is pretty much the defensive one. This is most likely where you will see gunner, as well as jerjerod

Ociunn + Dauntless + Daredevil + isaard + EI and maybe a ion torp maybe gunner too

The non unique will fall into either the offensive or defensive builds.

I guess I should actually say I see all of them running isaard the ship is too pricey not too. I see every one of them except ociunn running either EI + expose or Gunner for the offensive boost. As we have seen with the falcon when you have so few shots they need to count or you are doomed. If you want a more lethal ship you will run chiraneau, more tanky will be kenkrik. As I pointed out earlier I would run and I imagine we will see it done this way the most chiraneau with EI and expose and kenkirk with gunner. I also imagine we will see alot of either mara or rebel captives on these ships.

There... is... anothhhhher....

DoomNarwhal

I wasn't maxing them out just setting up a template and posisble add ons but you are right I forgot about adding vader which I think is a useful upgrade on kenkirk

Is that game legal???

I will MAKE it legal...

Not to get too terribly far off topic, but I've played against a Worlds top-16 player that ran Dash a few times (3p0, EU, HLC, title, maybe PTL) against a Phantom list and I was not terribly impressed. The phantom was all "sup Dash, I'll just stay in R1 and kill you in 3-4 turns, mkay?"

well, tahts what people have been saying. whisper actually is a good counter to dash

Not if you run VI instead of PTL on Dash. We tested his Barrel Roll and that alone is enough to take him out of Range 1 of even a ship that has bumped him, so I'm not sure needing a Barrel Roll and a Boost is necessary in one turn. PS9 might be more valuable.

Also, Whisper will always have one turn where she has to take fire from Dash before she can engage him at Range 1 unless Dash is flying full throttle toward her right off the bat. The key for Dash is to make that turn count. Even with a Cloak up, HLC should be doing some damage.

In practice, I think Echo has a better chance against PTL Dash, because of her ability to always get the right angle (barring asteroids) at Dash. VI Dash is much harder, so will require some guessing and help from Echo's wingmen.

Kind of frustrating that the Imperial side still doesn't have much to take down Fat Han (now that Paul and Ira have found ways to defeat TIE Swarms). Super Dash might be the new rock to Fat Han's scissors, and then Phantoms the paper to Super Dash. We shall see!

Not to get too terribly far off topic, but I've played against a Worlds top-16 player that ran Dash a few times (3p0, EU, HLC, title, maybe PTL) against a Phantom list and I was not terribly impressed. The phantom was all "sup Dash, I'll just stay in R1 and kill you in 3-4 turns, mkay?"

well, tahts what people have been saying. whisper actually is a good counter to dash

Not if you run VI instead of PTL on Dash. We tested his Barrel Roll and that alone is enough to take him out of Range 1 of even a ship that has bumped him, so I'm not sure needing a Barrel Roll and a Boost is necessary in one turn. PS9 might be more valuable.

Also, Whisper will always have one turn where she has to take fire from Dash before she can engage him at Range 1 unless Dash is flying full throttle toward her right off the bat. The key for Dash is to make that turn count. Even with a Cloak up, HLC should be doing some damage.

In practice, I think Echo has a better chance against PTL Dash, because of her ability to always get the right angle (barring asteroids) at Dash. VI Dash is much harder, so will require some guessing and help from Echo's wingmen.

Kind of frustrating that the Imperial side still doesn't have much to take down Fat Han (now that Paul and Ira have found ways to defeat TIE Swarms). Super Dash might be the new rock to Fat Han's scissors, and then Phantoms the paper to Super Dash. We shall see!

I do not like that idea at all. Swarm lists look fun and expressive, and involve skillful flying. Im really against the anti-swarm things that they want to do NOW, now meaning after the whole Phantom problem and then the current Hans figuring out how to beat swarms.

Let's hope that wave 6 fixes that.

I'm still a fan of including gunner in on the VT49. Never under estimate your ability to really fudge a roll. Plus it heps remove C3PO from the equation, 3PO can only be used once while gunner allows a new attack.

In our games that pitted the VT49 vs the Outrider, the VT49 has come out on top every game. That 0 evade though is a big glass jaw. In contrast, our more defensive builds fared worse than the more offensive builds.

Last weekend we saw a VT49 emerge victorious over 4 b-wings and an x-wing (secluded part of a 300 point game) thanks to some wonderful maneuvering and a well placed proton bomb.

The thing with Gunner against Falcon is that with only 1 agility die, it's rare that you will fail to hit. If I were the Falcon, if I see 1 hit, I won't use C3PO to take a hit, the same way that other ships use the evade token to take 1 hit to bypass gunner.

I see gunner as more useful against Phantoms, Interceptors, and other 3+ agility ships. But Vader is also very effective.

Right now I'm always debating Vader+Moff (guaranteed crit and good defense against crits) vs Gunner.

What is this new method of dealing with swarms that fat Han can use now?

What is this new method of dealing with swarms that fat Han can use now?

The person using Fat Han flies better and the swarm doesn't win.

Seems the biggest complaint is not so much fat han but tournie timed rounds win conditions that make it difficult for a flightly Han to get murdered before killing more than his points worth of ties

Seems the biggest complaint is not so much fat han but tournie timed rounds win conditions that make it difficult for a flightly Han to get murdered before killing more than his points worth of ties

Yeah, this is the issue I found at our regionals. Taking down a Falcon (or worse, two) within the time limit means you need to play quite aggressively, which limits your manoeuvring options. Disengaging and regrouping for a turn or two can mean you don't have time to chew through the hull.

I'm itching to try this:

Oicunn / PTL / Ysanne / Rebel Captive / EU (56)

Echo / Ruthlessness / FCS / Gunner / ACD (44)

Ysanne/PTL/EU boosting-during-the-combat-phase shenanigans + an improved Echo buzzsaw?

ehh h eheh hehe eh ehehh eh ehhehhhe eh eh eh {/beavis}

Shōyu-Ken: Commander Kenkirk with some salty black sauce to deliver Force uppercuts.

Commander Kenkirk (44)

Darth Vader (3) + Moff Jerjerrod (2)

Ysanne Isard (4) + Push the Limit (3) + Engine Upgrade (4)

Total: 60 points

You can Vader to strip your own shields early game, or for some clutch damage, or toss him moff the ship if he's outlived his usefulness.

40 points left to season to taste.

What is this new method of dealing with swarms that fat Han can use now?

Use engine to avoid as many arcs as possible. Then, with those that can't be dodged, use 3PO and Evade to limit incoming damage while returning fire with gunner. Meanwhile, three escorts are relatively durable and provide three more guns and decent blocking options.

Fat Ken is by far worse than Fat Falcons.

Commander Kenkirk + PTL + Moff Jerjerrod + Ysanne Isard + Rebel Captive + Engine Upgrade

Obsidian Tie x3

How it works:

Before you are reduced to 11 hull points = fly normally. Use PTL to Focus and TL.

Once you are at 11 hull, Ysanne Isard will activate.

Now you only take the Focus action on your turn. During the Combat Phase, after everything else has moved and you know everyone's arc, Ysanne activates and gives you a free evade action. You activate PTL off that evade action and you boost out of arcs.

You can Vader to strip your own shields early game, or for some clutch damage, or toss him moff the ship if he's outlived his usefulness.

Gotta love the irony in using a Moff to execute Vader.

I also would like to try:

"Killer Whale"

100 Points

The idea is to ram enemy ships, then use Dauntless+Expert Handling to get out of B2B so I can still fire back while dodging firing arcs. The added bonus of removing a TL is icing on the cake(or baby seal). Between Mara, the Captive, and bumping, your enemy has very little opportunity to ever take an action. If that action happens to be a target lock, laugh as you dance around them and lose it. The Wingmen keep the Killer Whale stress free with a possible -3 stress each turn, and the action denial increases survivability exponentially for all ships. They also have respectable Piloting skill, so they can at least go before all the Rooks and Dagger Squads the Rebels can offer. All 3 ships are rolling 4 dice at range 1, so he idea is to get in close and stay there.

Stilgod, If you take any stress during the activation phase you cannot then use Yassne to get the evade. (Since it says take an evade action.) Is that taken into account in your calculations?

What is this new method of dealing with swarms that fat Han can use now?

The person using Fat Han flies better and the swarm doesn't win.

Engine Upgrade helps a lot. Being Paul Heaver is good too.

Playing for time is very effective in tournaments. As you can likely bust a few more ties and stall.

Having Predator as the EPT instead of VI will help a lot too. However you put your Whisper matchup to a dice roll and harder game.

Also, that Barrel Roll Oicunn is pure utter comedic gold.