What are the most competitive lists uv seen running at least one Tie-Defender?

By The_Brown_Bomber, in X-Wing

exactly, what the heck is a tie defender good for? I dont think it does anything best.

It's a solid all-rounder as a ship that sports what is probably the most durable small-ship profile (between solid hull, shields, and 3 agility), held back mainly by its lack of viable pilots (with the generics being really silly expensive and Rexlar being incredibly expensive and situational, imo)

It's big defining gimmick is the white K-turn, which players new to it really love to over-use and render themselves incredibly predictable :P Apart from jousting superiority (which is noticable, but as said predictable) it's fun to fly behind a formation and then used to intercept ships that can outmanuever the main body of the squad.

The Defender (Vessery) is also one of I think 3 ships the empire has that combines 3 red dice with decent durability & cost, the others being the Firespray and the Shuttle. I also like that, while it has 3 agility, it doesn't spontanesouly combust when RNGesus coughs on it (unlike other Ties I could mention..).

I hold Colonel Vessery to be a very solid list option, because he is one of few imperials that can nab himself an easy TL + Focus combo (provided you have another TL floating around) while remaining fairly durable and decently priced. His combination of accuracy and manueverability is not something you can match with the Firespray (manueverability enhanced, imo, by the rear arc) or Shuttle (system and crew slots provide accuracy...but dat dial).

Agreed with Vessery's quality dice.

but what im really asking about is not how the function but what function do they serve? roles? what specific problems do they address? what weaknesses do they shore up?

The most competitive lists in the worlds results were Vessery, shuttle, int/phantom builds. typically soontir.

The attempt was to put two beefy tanky ships into play that could damage the falcon. sadly, the falcons really good dial and boost makes it much easier to dodge both of those ships. and taking down soontir is relatively easy. just one or two turns or damage will do the trick. something you can easily afford with Han and the 3Zs to run interference on vessery and the shuttle. boosting out of arc with the falcon will be much better in this limited ship match up.

i for one dont really want to play tie swarm. not good enough yet, dont have that many ties. and i hate seeing them get one shot and chewed up with my bad green dice luck. seriously. my opponent's ties never die fast enough. mine get one shotted, 3 hits, or 1 hit 1 direct hit every time i play them. There are times where I am at R3 with an evade, and showing much more promising targets and my opponents says: "ill try my luck with the tie AT RANGE THREE WITH AN EVADE"

Oh, hit crit crit. youre gonna dodge that surely right?

blank blank blank FOCUS. spend a evade, take a direct hit. rage quit.

Edited by Blail Blerg

I like this build:

Vessery

- VI

- HLC

Echo

- VI

- ACD

- FCS

- Weapon Engineer

Backstabber

Agreed with Vessery's quality dice.

but what im really asking about is not how the function but what function do they serve? roles? what specific problems do they address? what weaknesses do they shore up?

Just think of it in terms of what would happen if Vessery was replaced with the another ship on either side of the lists' extremes

Vessery is more expensive than the shuttle, but he doesn't get absolutely lost in his dial (white K turn brings him right back while the shuttle stares in envy :P)

Vessery is not as manueverable nor damaging as the Phantom (at least, not when the Phantom has its FCS lock set up), but it also doesn't get wrecked by Turrets or attacks that manage to by-pass Cloak + defensive tokens.

Vessery is not as manueverable as Soontir, but the addition of 3 shields does wonders :D

The balance Vessery adds as opposed to another space-cow or space-fly is that it makes the list far less suspectible to hard counters. Vessery will have a much easier time dealing with nimble ships than the Shuttle, and will have a much easier time eating turret shots than the Phantom.

Ran this once, testing vs. super Dash

Rexler + HLC + VI + Engine

Omicron + RebCap + Adv Sensors + Fleet Officer + Engine

Dark Curse

Rexler has got some serious game, and at PS 10 he can burst down Whispers and move after even a VI Dash, boosting into R1 if needed to deny Dash a shot. Might be a little overcosted for such a situational ability, but when it connects it's oh so sweet.

What are the most competitive lists uv seen running at least one Tie-Defender?

I will let you know what I find when I am done pulling in all the squad lists for Worlds. No Defenders made the Top 32, so it makes it difficult to tell.

Edit: if I can cheat by using my House Rules, I would have to say 3x Delta + Backstabber. :D

Edited by MajorJuggler

I've had great luck with this one:

Rexlar with Predator

Howlrunner with Swarm Tactics

Backstabber

Academy Pilot x2

Gives you two PS8 attackers to strip tokens/shields before Rexlar fires. Backstabber provides a solid flanker, and the Academies block. Howl's reroll stacks with the one granted by Predator, allowing Rexlar to reroll two dice against PS3+ defenders.

Best one I've tried is this. Almost won a tournament:

REXLER BRATH (37)

-Push the limit (3)

COLONEL VESSERY (35)

-Veteran instincts (1)

CAPTAIN YORR (24)

For a total of 100 point squad

Colonel Vessery (35)

- Veteran Instincts (1)

- Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

-Darth Vader (3)

Bounty Hunter (33)

100 Points

2x Delta Squadron Pilot w/HLC

Captain Jonus w/Squad Leader and Flechette torpedoes

I thought Id build a 150 pt list and WOW! This is what I came up with!

DEATH STRIKE

150 points

PILOTS

"Whisper” (42)

TIE Phantom (32), Rebel Captive (3), Fire-Control System (2), Veteran Instincts (1), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Soontir Fel (33)

TIE Interceptor (27), Push the Limit (3), Hull Upgrade (3)

Colonel Vessery (47)

TIE Defender (35), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Veteran Instincts (1), Shield Upgrade (4)

Turr Phennir (28)

TIE Interceptor (25), Adrenaline Rush (1), Targeting Computer (2)

I like this;

Brath 40

-predator

Soontir 30

-push the limit 3

Carnor 30

-push the limit 3

Only lost 1 match with it because of my own stupidity. I should have pushed the limit with Soontir since he was range 3 of something and he got one shot by a hit and crit. Other than that this list is fun to play. It's been effective against phantoms so far but I don't see VI Whisper locally.

Rexler Brath

HLC

Predator

Kath Scarlet

HLC

Predator

Rebel Captive

Seismic Charge

Hard hitting, does well against a variety of lists you'll come across. Haven't lost with it yet.

looks pretty solid. have you played versus FatHan, tie-swarm and phantom lists? how it go versus these juggernauts?

It eats Swarms and Phantoms. No one in my local meta plays Fat Han.

Agreed with Vessery's quality dice.

but what im really asking about is not how the function but what function do they serve? roles? what specific problems do they address? what weaknesses do they shore up?

Just think of it in terms of what would happen if Vessery was replaced with the another ship on either side of the lists' extremes

Vessery is more expensive than the shuttle, but he doesn't get absolutely lost in his dial (white K turn brings him right back while the shuttle stares in envy :P)

Vessery is not as manueverable nor damaging as the Phantom (at least, not when the Phantom has its FCS lock set up), but it also doesn't get wrecked by Turrets or attacks that manage to by-pass Cloak + defensive tokens.

Vessery is not as manueverable as Soontir, but the addition of 3 shields does wonders :D

The balance Vessery adds as opposed to another space-cow or space-fly is that it makes the list far less suspectible to hard counters. Vessery will have a much easier time dealing with nimble ships than the Shuttle, and will have a much easier time eating turret shots than the Phantom.

I really disagree. That's how I used to think about t before I tried some actual games. What's the biggest problem is that the cost makes most vessery lists three ship lists. The other expensive ship is the ps9 counter in the list to phantom. You also usually can't take too many ties as they don't have TL.

There fore you're going to find vessery blocked very often and also concentrated. His lack of maneucerability then does him in since he can't dodge like Soontir or whisper.

Also those turret shots? No way. I was one shot from 5 health. Two hits and two crits. Four rerolls suck. My opponent just had better dice due to gunner and Han. Crits for every first result that I had to cancel. Then I didnt roll enough to even matter the second shot even though I had two focuses and an evade.

the Defender may start seeing alot of use as a HLC platform behind an Interference Decimator with Tactical Jammer, essentially picking up the scraps that the Decimator leaves from breaking formations etc.

Theres an Oicunn build with Intimidation that works really well at smashing in, interfering with opponents and leaving it to something with more Firepower to mop up. Its either a Phantom or a Defender that fits that slot.

I like this;

Brath 40

-predator

Soontir 30

-push the limit 3

Carnor 30

-push the limit 3

Only lost 1 match with it because of my own stupidity. I should have pushed the limit with Soontir since he was range 3 of something and he got one shot by a hit and crit. Other than that this list is fun to play. It's been effective against phantoms so far but I don't see VI Whisper locally.

Carnor w/PTL is only 29 points. This a 99 point list.

Fun with this list, I have

Darth Vader (29)
Outmaneuver (3)
Proton Rockets (3)
Engine Upgrade (4)

Rexler Brath (37)
Predator (3)
Autoblaster (5)

"Backstabber" (16)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Rexler Brath

HLC

Predator

Kath Scarlet

HLC

Predator

Rebel Captive

Seismic Charge

Hard hitting, does well against a variety of lists you'll come across. Haven't lost with it yet.

looks pretty solid. have you played versus FatHan, tie-swarm and phantom lists? how it go versus these juggernauts?

It eats Swarms and Phantoms. No one in my local meta plays Fat Han.

A list like this killed my slim Han list

Han Solo (46)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Recon Specialist (3)

Millennium Falcon (1)

Luke Skywalker (28)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Airen Cracken (19)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Jonus brothers.

Jonus brothers.

Funny you mention the Jonus Brothers lists. Played against a 4 TIE Bomber list last night and crushed it with Rexler's ability. Having no shields is a major disadvantage. He couldn't get ordinance off fast enough to kill Rexler or Kath.

Edited by InquisitorJesus

I finally got around to fielding Vessery for the first time last week. He shot up a YT2400 inflicting 3 hits then flipped them over to crits with the focus token. What a beautiful thing.... LOL If you are only going to have one Defender, Vessery is the guy for sure.

Jonus brothers.

Funny you mention the Jonus Brothers lists. Played against a 4 TIE Bomber list last night and crushed it with Rexler's ability. Having no shields is a major disadvantage. He couldn't get ordinance off fast enough to kill Rexler or Kath.

Funny you mention that, because jonus brothers (Jonus + 2 HLC defenders) i had killed every Rexler list i had played against.

"Oh, so you used your focus to see if you managed to get something useful out of that 1-2 hits ? eat HLC x2 with focus + Jonus ability."

Anecdotes are fun hahaah.

Edited by DreadStar

I finally got around to fielding Vessery for the first time last week. He shot up a YT2400 inflicting 3 hits then flipped them over to crits with the focus token. What a beautiful thing.... LOL If you are only going to have one Defender, Vessery is the guy for sure.

I assume you mean Brath? :)

I finally got around to fielding Vessery for the first time last week. He shot up a YT2400 inflicting 3 hits then flipped them over to crits with the focus token. What a beautiful thing.... LOL If you are only going to have one Defender, Vessery is the guy for sure.

I assume you mean Brath? :)

Probably! I fielded both Vessery and Brath together, first run for either either. The one that flips damage cards to crits anyway!

I like this build:

Vessery

- VI

- HLC

Echo

- VI

- ACD

- FCS

- Weapon Engineer

Backstabber

I just flew a very similar list (drop the VIs in exchange for Outmaneuver on Vessery) and did well. I think I like your PS8 with an int bid, though. Having all PS6 is nice for when the furball starts, but I think that having a PS8 echo at 99 points is probably worth the drop in flexibility (also, I'm very bad at remembering to invoke outmaneuver).