Okay, I have some challenge questions.

1. First off, just to make sure, I challenge with Dark Riku against his lv 2 Sora and he plays a lvl 3 goofy friend. He can only play one friend throughout the whole challenge, and as many magic friends during challenge, right, or he can play more than one friend card during the challenge.

2. And for Dark decks, what's the maximum dark cards I can play during the challenge? Like can I only play one heartless, or I can play as many heartless as I want during the challenge phase. Also one heartless at a time, or as many heartless as I can play during the challenge?

3. Also a quick question about general challenge phases, I challenge with a lvl 3 riku against opponent's lvl 2 sora. Since my attack is higher, he can play a friend, magic, magic friend, or attack card. Can he do that all at the same time, or does he have to play like an attack card, then it's my turn to play something, then his turn again? What i'm trying to ask is can he only play one thing when it's his turn to fight back, or can he play as many magic friends, friend, attack cards, and magic all in one go?

Thank you

this should answer all of your questions but the way challenges work is the person with the lower score can continue to add friends/attack/ magic/magicfriend card until he or she has a higher score.

ex lvl 3 riku-7att- challenges lvl 2 riku-6 att-

lvl 2 riku gets to add friends/magic/etc until they get to 7or higher then it goes to the lvl 3 riku. you can play as many friends as you want during a challenge-if you have 10 friends all of them may participate in the challenge-. dark friends are the same.

also though is players may "pass" an example is lvl 2 riku doesnt want to add anything so they can pass to lvl 3 riku who adds soul eater who is then at 9 att and riku lvl 2 then has the oppertunity to play a card b/c lvl 3 riku did and is at a higher att value.

just as a heads up you generally dont want to make your support way to much-use all your friends/att/ card beat your opponet by about 16 support b/c 1 fairy harp and your in trouble-fairy harp switchs both players values.

Thanks that cleared up a few things. Just making things sure. So they can use as many friends as they want during challenges? And say Riku lvl 3 7 challenges the riku 6 attack, lvl 2 riku plays sephiroth making total attack value (6+9=15). Can riku during his turn to get a higher value, play a lvl 4 goofy and a soul eater, making his total attack value 7+7+2=16 thus making the score 16>15, winning the challenge? Same applies for playing another friend instead of the soul eater? Thank you

It's actually both players get to add one at a time until both choose to do nothing.

oh okay. Sorry for being a little slow i just want to make sure on the rulings. so during challenge, each player takes turn playing a card until both do nothing.
EX: Dark Riku lvl 3 8 attack challenges Riku lvl 3 7 attack. Riku lvl 3 uses sephiroth, making it 7+9=16. The Dark Riku has to play a card to make it more than 16 to beat Riku lvl 3. So what i'm trying to ask is in order for the Dark Riku to beat Riku lvl 3 total of 16 attack, is he limited of only playing one heartless, or one attack card, or one magic for this turn to counter? Or can he use multiple heartless to match that sephiroth? Just really trying to clarify all of this. Also like i was saying, can he use a combination of attack cards and magic cards and heartless cards, for example divine rose and fire at the same time to make his total value 8+5+4=20 attack value thus 20>19, winning the challenge considering the Riku lvl 3 has nothing else to play? Thank you

No, Attack and Magic have to be played separate. You can combine Attack Cards with a Power Up bonus like Divine Rose though.

oh okay, so when it's your turn to counter you can only play one option: attack card(more than one if the text states it), magic card, friend card, or magic friend card? You can't play more than one friend at a time, or more than one dark card at a time? What about magic friends, can you play more than one during your turn to counter?

Ichiban829 said:

No sir, they follow the magic rules when being cast and friend rules when on the field.

Normally, it really doesn't matter how many you can play at once. For one reason and one reason only: the play goes on until BOTH PLAYERS choose to do nothing. So I could play a card, the opponent could play nothing, and I could still play another card. However, there are times when there are exceptions to this, and it's important to remember that you can only play one card at a time.

So Imagine Riku level 3 from set 2 vs. a Level 1 Sora from set 1.

Riku challenges so Riku goes first.

Riku has 7 Attack power vs. Sora's 4. This means that he doesn't really NEED to use any attack cards in order to win the challenge. But despite this, he uses Soul Eater because the card text allows him to take away 2 HP if he wins instead of 1.

So now it's Riku's 9 vs. Sora's 4.

So let's say Sora uses a Divine Rose. He's actually planning on using 2 Divine Roses for the 12 Attack Value, because he has them in his hand. But he can only play one at a time during his turn in the challenge phase. So he plays it.

Riku's 9 vs. Sora's 9.

Now Riku doesn't know for sure whether or not Sora has another Divine Rose. But it doesn't matter anyways because Riku doesn't want to waste his Soul Eater on what could turn out to be a tie so he uses his Olympia to discard the last Divine Rose.

Riku's 9 vs. Sora's 4.

So Sora can no longer do the 2x Divine Rose combo, but he still has a Genie (a magic/friend) with 8 attack power in his friend zone that he can use, and so he plays it.

Riku's 9 vs. Sora's 12.

Now Riku has several Friends in his friend zone that he can use, but they all have a support value of +2 or less. But he has enough of them to easily beat Sora's attack value of 12, so he plays a level 2 Ariel to bring his attack value up to 11.

Now Sora has a clear advantage and he doesn't want to lose it. So he plays Stop (a magic card) and immediately ends the challenge. Riku's Friend cards don't mean anything because the challenge has ended.

And that's pretty much how I imagine it.

Sluppie said:

Wrong, because cards like Olympia would seriously do some damage because you played all those cards at once, so then Olympia by card text would discard each one of those cards, and that's not how it works.

I said "Normally".

Not "in all cases".

Having Olympia in your hand, or even in your deck, is a very specific scenario and therefore not the default or "normal" case. I even pointed it out later.

So no, it's not wrong. It's just better to be more careful.

Sluppie said:

Your going to confuse the poor guy. To get the +12 bonus he has to play them both at the same time...normally you couldn't do this because the rules state as such...but the card allows you to....this mistake in basic rules and card understanding ruins your whole scenario.

Sluppie said:

No, it's wrong.

Just because olympia is a "special case" doesn't mean anything. Roxas' point about Olympia being ridiculous if it could discard a bunch of cards is spot on...you play one thing at a time till you both pass because that's how the rules work. Not because your being "more careful"

I get it. Thanks guys. I just had to think about it, and it all makes sense now. The whole thing about "til both players choose to do nothing" makes sense now. Basically my dark riku, attack 8, can challenge a lvl 2 riku, attack 6, and if the lvl 2 riku has sephiroth and uses himj during challenge, making his total attack value 6+9=15, then my dark riku can add say screwdiver, total attack value 8+(12/2)=14, since I did something, it's lvl 2 riku turn, since his is higher, he can choose to do nothing, so it is my dark riku turn again, and I can add another dark card to get higher, say large body, total attack value 14+(13/2 rounded down)=20, now making my total attack higher than lvl 2 riku, 20>15, so now lvl 2 riku can choose to add another friend if he has any more, or attack card, magic, or magic/friend given he has any, or choose to do nothing if he has none, so if he chooses to do nothing, I can also choose to do nothing since my attack is now higher, making me the winner of the challenge. I hope I got it all right. Thanks again guys.

Aye, that's the way it would go. You've got it right on the money.

Good scenario, by the way. Card for card play works wonders.

WayToTheDawn said:

Gee... I had no idea. I've been doing it wrong this whole time? Wow. I guess I could read it a little more closely. I thought it meant "In the same battle or challenge" but I never thought it was quite literally "at the same time" as if they were both one single card.

Yeah Olympia would be rediculous if it could discard a bunch of cards at once, but since it's text only says "the last card" (singular, not plural. We're not speaking japanese here. There IS a difference) so I really don't see how the point is relevant or even disproves me at all. In fact, it would actually make the card weaker since the player using could no longer choose to play it after just any card, but only the last card in the batch.

And yes that's how the rules work, but sometimes people make house rules in order to take shortcuts through the game mechanics. Like in high school there was a common and popular rule for Magic: the Gathering where you could play as many land cards as you like during a single turn and then draw another card, even though that was never to my knowledge a part of the "official rules". They were still a part of the "Schoolground rules" so to speak, and people played by them because the official rules were too slow for playing games during lunch.

However, the problem with these rules was that they were incredibly careless. One could fill his whole deck with nothing but land cards and one incinerate, thereby playing his whole deck in one hand and wiping out the opponent with one unblockable attack card. Cheap, but I played a guy who caught me off guard with this tactic. It actually pretty funny when I realized his trick.

But the truth is that the game wasn't balanced around these house rules. They were balanced around the official rules. But the official rules were too slow for our limited time, so we took short cuts to make the game go by faster. These short cuts took the form of house rules.

The same holds true for Kingdom Hearts: playing only one card at a time is sometimes tedious, especially when your opponent is sitting on a huge advantage and is just going to skip quite a few turns. It's even more tedious when you already know what you're going to play like 3 steps before you play it and your opponent is sitting there musing over his options. So in order to skip past that, one might make a house rule where, during challenges, you just play a bunch of cards at once and then your opponent plays a bunch of his cards at once. It's not the official rules, but there's no referee that's going to come to your house and make you play by "official" rules every time you start up this game. You can take shortcuts under your own roof. Just don't expect to do so at a tournament.

I guess if you're gonna get into that though, one should ask "is this for a casual game or a tourney game?" I had assumed the former, but others seem to be assuming the latter. Either way, I can't speculate on the OP's position anyways.

But since this board isn't about "house rules" anyways, I decided not to really get into it before, but if you MUST press the advantage you think you have, then I'm afraid I have no choice but to either counter or take a hit I didn't deserve.

so on so on blah blah blah but my point is this: Playing by the official rules is being careful, and playing by house rules is not. I'm still not wrong. You being right + You misunderstanding my point does NOT equal me being wrong. It only means you're right about one point(the irrelevant Olympia issue) and wrong about another (my point).

Sluppie said:

So let me get this straight...you want to type out a long winded, meaningless post about how your right because people could be playing with house rules? Really? You said yourself, this is a forum about TOURNAMENT RULES...so how could I have misunderstood if there was no reason for me to? Sounds like you couldn't think of a better argument...so...in effect...your still very wrong.

And as for Olympia...the ruling on it is that it discards EVERY card played before it. As in, if you played two Divine Roses at the same time for the +12 (since you've learned how to use it correctly now), then I played an Olympia...I would discard both of your Divine Roses.

I'm gonna to have to ask you guys keep in civil. This is still a public forum and we are supposed to be the nicest community (though not very efficient) so I ask that you guys keep the jabs to a minimum (no offense meant to anyone, just saying) *clears throat* Anyway...

Mr. Dawn is correct, this is about Tournament Rules, House Rules matter so little that even Deep Jungle Level 3 is ranked higher on the list of things that matter in this section. That being said no amount of trying to change the senerio will change the fact that Olympia will in fact discard any and every card that was "last played" in the tournament style.

I beleive this is what we call question answered. Thank You.

I do apologize...I do tend to get carried away sometimes when I am insulted...but sometimes people gotta be put in their place.

I wish I had my mod powers back so I could lock this thread, but oh well...as you said, question answered and we are moving on.

WayToTheDawn said:

The only one throwing around insults here is you, Way to the Dawn.

I have only respectably defended my own position. You're the one who feels the need to "put people in their place" or to call people "long winded" just because they try to make a point.

And what was my insult to you? That I said you were wrong about what I said? Well boo hoo. You can't be right all the time.

That I called you a scrub? Hey, I just call it like I see it. I've been to tournament-related forums WAY more competitive than this one is, and they'd probably agree with my assessment. Not that I'd bother them over something as trivial as this, but calling something "cheap" is a sign of weakness. It just is. Your short temper is a sign of weakness, too.

Honestly... Your advice seemed so thought-out. You were more than willing to correct me. But when I returned the favor you just couldn't handle it.

EDIT: Oh but you're ignoring me aren't you? Oh well. You really do have a short temper you know. Such a shame. If it weren't for that I might actually be able to respect you.

Sluppie said:

I asked for civility. You guys can carry out this in PM's but seriously it's a dead horse, let it rest please. No offense man.