I thought it was incredibly interesting that in the top 8 there is roughly the following spread of builds:

2x TIE swarm

2x 'fat' han

2x Phantom + __

2x 4-ship rebels

Now, of course each build is unique and different, which is also very cool. I'm so glad this game is balanced and can have such a strong showing from so many different builds. The general framework is there for some solid strategy, but these folks have customized that framework to fit their preference.

Thoughts?

Good luck everyone still in the running! May all your hits be crits!

Go rebels!

the most innovative list there is the BBBY stress giver Panic Attack played by J.Gomes

Blue x 3 + + B/E2 + Tactician, Gold + Ion Turret + R3A2

very cool list. gr8 to see tactician used to its full potential. i think this list would have a decent matchup versus FatHan lists.

also a shoutout to Paul Heaver for running R2-D2 over gunner. didnt see that coming. very cool

Is there somewhere to see exactly what the top 8 builds are?

Is there somewhere to see exactly what the top 8 builds are?

http://teamcovenant.com/sozin/2014/11/08/2014-x-wing-world-championships-top-32-report/

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/125842-2014-worlds-results/

[go to page#1, post#2)

also a shoutout to Paul Heaver for running R2-D2 over gunner. didnt see that coming. very cool

Yea, Jeff B (who beat Paul in the Top 4 of Gencon this year) was using R2D2 instead of Gunner. It's a underrated card.

Yeah, I haven't gotten my Tantive IV in yet, but I have been looking forward to using R2-D2 for a long time...just because I never heard anything about him and he's just an awesome character. I'm glad to see him being used!

I'd hardly call that a diverse spread. Of eight players, six of their lists can be summed up by saying the names of three different unique pilots.

I went back and looked at the top 32:

20 Rebel Alliance

10 - Han Solo

03 - Chewbacca (+1 in a Han Solo list)

05 - Multiple Blue Squadron Pilots

02 - Ace* and Biggs Darklighter (+1 in a Chewbacca list)

*Wedge Antilles or Corran Horn.

12 Galactic Empire

06 - "Howlrunner" and TIE Fighters (+1 in a "Whisper" list)

04 - "Whisper"

02 - Ace* and Sigma Squadron Pilot

*Soontir Fel or "Echo".

I tried to analyze this, but I'm not really sure what to say, other than that I'm disappointed.

Yeah, this is a very finely filtered meta at this point. Any more so and you run dangerously close to that intangible 'solved' state. Reminds me of the Magic: The Gathering meta(s)

There is as much diversity as you are willing to find. I'm find with the diversity of the top 32. Sure, a lot of Falcons. But a lot of interesting variation in there. But, it is far more fun to complain about Falcon dominance...

I thought it was incredibly interesting that in the top 8 there is roughly the following spread of builds:

2x TIE swarm

2x 'fat' han

2x Phantom + __

2x 4-ship rebels

Now, of course each build is unique and different, which is also very cool. I'm so glad this game is balanced and can have such a strong showing from so many different builds. The general framework is there for some solid strategy, but these folks have customized that framework to fit their preference.

Thoughts?

Good luck everyone still in the running! May all your hits be crits!

Are the 4 ship builds all B-wings or X-wings or are there absolutely no similarities other than 4 small ships?

It is nice though that it is split 50 rebel / 50 imperial.

Nope, they are all pretty different.

I thought it was incredibly interesting that in the top 8 there is roughly the following spread of builds:

2x TIE swarm

2x 'fat' han

2x Phantom + __

2x 4-ship rebels

Now, of course each build is unique and different, which is also very cool. I'm so glad this game is balanced and can have such a strong showing from so many different builds. The general framework is there for some solid strategy, but these folks have customized that framework to fit their preference.

Thoughts?

Good luck everyone still in the running! May all your hits be crits!

Are the 4 ship builds all B-wings or X-wings or are there absolutely no similarities other than 4 small ships?

It is nice though that it is split 50 rebel / 50 imperial.

One was three Blues and a Gold. The other was Wedge, Biggs, Cracken and Rookie.

See, now I disagree with this. I was running Whisper VI ACD Gunner FCS, Soontir PTL, and OMG Vader, and the other "Whisper" list is Whisper with Rebel Captive and a howl miniswarm.

I'm not entirely sure it's fair to lump both of those in a "whisper" category and say that it's the same. Those are radically different tactical games. It's not quite the same as two swarms with howl, one with PTL and the other with Swarm Tactics.

Yes, there are certain ships that seem to fare better over the course of 2 days, but I take umbrage with the lumping of the two whisper top 8 lists as the same.

They definitely do fly differently and have different tactics.

Their match ups are slightly different too.

Sunny if you don't mind do you want to explain a little more about that variant?

It seems to be similar to the Nationals list replacing yorr with vader. Which I believe is a good option too. Though I've recently toyed with fcs and maybe going back to standard rebel captive whisper.

See, now I disagree with this. I was running Whisper VI ACD Gunner FCS, Soontir PTL, and OMG Vader, and the other "Whisper" list is Whisper with Rebel Captive and a howl miniswarm.

I'm not entirely sure it's fair to lump both of those in a "whisper" category and say that it's the same. Those are radically different tactical games. It's not quite the same as two swarms with howl, one with PTL and the other with Swarm Tactics.

Yes, there are certain ships that seem to fare better over the course of 2 days, but I take umbrage with the lumping of the two whisper top 8 lists as the same.

I completely agree with that. One of the things I like about Phantoms is how you want to support it. What other pieces you want to run with it because they change the nature of how you fly. You can run a super stress shuttle build and a sensor jammer Whisper, or you could run 5 APs and a decked out Whisper. There's lots of ways you can run this and they can't really be lumped together.

Yeah, I could talk ENDLESSLY about this variant, but it's 1am and I've literally been standing for 3 days (you don't sit a lot at these events!). I'll post more tomorrow but I'll leave you with this: I've been flying phantoms exclusively since they came out in a million different varieties (including aaron bonar's sigma six build in the top 32, which you have to try at least once; it's insane). When I saw Rick Sidebotham's national list with whisper with gunner and fcs I immediately contacted him after trying it a few times. We talked a ton and I met him at worlds and talked even more about tactics. He's a really cool guy who flies the same way, and yet different, from me in a lot of ways.

So since the meta is going to change nearly immediately I'll be happy to give up my secrets. What do you want to know?

Now I'm going to bed!

Things that you think we don't comprehend at all. The next level.

I have to be honest, the variation of what you equip to individual pilots is not significant enough to for me to count them as a truly different. When an overwhelming majority of the top are playing the same named pilots with a few different upgrades here and there it's the same thing as in M:TG when somebody would say they changed how many of a certain card was in their netlist deck and say they had a different deck because of it. We are seeing that here. They are still running mostly the top two archetypes and most are still running the top two pilot cards.

For it to be considered 'diverse' I would've needed to see more E-wings, Firesprays, A-wings, Hawks, Bombers, that kind of thing. Like Joker Two said say one of three names and bam, there's your majority top lists. I can't kid my self into calling that different. Hell, the list I wanted to take if I could of gone was a Fat Han/A/B and I don't call that different per se from any of the others. My win condition ship is still a Han, my game plan still centers mostly around defending it into the late game where I can use it's accuracy to plink off the last survivors while outlasting with my fatness.

I must say, I agree that those lists can't be lumped because you simply can't play them the same way. And be honest, ANY game has top tier cards and the like. Can you really be upset by players to come to the World Championship with Tier 1 cards? The competitive lists might now may not include a huge variety, but none of us could do a better job designing a game and anyone who says they can is lying to themselves. The game SHOULD change. Before Wave 4 and the Tantive, Falcons were not competitive. Now they are played often because players know they can win with them. That is because the game changes. Before Wave 4, the meta was pretty consistently TIE Swarm or 4 Rebels. If you're saying that Whisper+mini swarm and Whisper+Shuttle are the same, then Biggs Walks The Dogs and Biggs/Wedge/2 Red Squads both fit into the same archetype, and quite honestly, they don't.

I'm not really trying to defend the Falcon, as I am not a fan of it either. I'm just saying that top tier players WILL come to premier events with top tier cards. Paul proved himself last year and he played just as well this year. The meta will experience a minor shift come Wave 5, bringing more turrets but also more variety in those turret lists, and then will change significantly again when Scum drops. I'd be willing to bet next year's Worlds isn't won by a Falcon.

I was mainly surprised to not see 6 or 7 of the exact same build. I was also happy that it was roughly equal between imperial and rebel, regardless of the exact list. I know that the two top 8 phantom builds are completely different (one with mini swarm the other with Fel and a shuttle), which just adds to how diverse the top 8 is. And yes, the 4x rebel ship builds were COMPLETELY different, I was just summing up the build overall w/o going into detail (mainly pointing out that it wasn't a 'falcon' list). Even the two 'fat' han lists were different..one with gunner and the other with R2-D2 crew. I was just summing up the lists with their key ships at a glance.

I agree that people are bringing some solid pilots this time around, which is why you see them a lot. That'll happen with every game.

It does feel a little bit like MTG meta in a sense, because there are a handful of things that seem to be 'working', but at the same time X-Wing is a completely different game. Even with identical lists, you can have vastly different strategy...right down to placement of ships and asteroids.

Would I like to see even more diversity? Yes, absolutely. Everyone could literally have a unique list when you get down to the nitty gritty. But I'm still happy to have it as 'diverse' as it was...because I know it could be a lot worse. It wasn't just 8 imperial swarms facing off against one another...or 6 lists that had phantoms cloaking it out.

Oh I definitely agree there are trends, but like I said, the best players will bring the best lists. I am all for more variety, but I an certainly impressed with this variety considering the climate of the meta.

I can tell you this: In 9 matches I didn't face the same list twice. So the meta can't be that bad. The closest I faced to similar was a couple tie swarms, but they had different tweaks (obsidians, backstabbers, PTL's, etc.). I believe that they measure the entire balance of the game against the tie swarm when testing, because it's ALWAYS going to be there and be competitive.

Honestly, I think that this wave was the most frustrating to people because of one card: C3P0. The phantom came out and everyone went bonkers about how unbeatable it was, so the whole world went to beating it. How did they do it? High PS and one card: C3P0. And it's not just the card, it's the fact that you can only get it through purchasing a gigantic F'ing ship for a boatload of cash that you'll never fly (I've seriously never seen an epic match, but know 8 guys with the ships).

I saw a lot of variation. Han was just a good ship that had a wide margin for error this worlds. Combine that with people that don't make mistakes (Paul) and you've got a TOUGH build, but I'd be willing to say that his build with the R2D2 crew was the ONLY one like that out of 250 worlds players, which has to say something on variance.

These are all very well stated opinions. I appreciate the sensible attitude in this thread. And to be sure the game is no Magic thanks to its being a minis game with tactical movement and deployment and dice to filter it out. And far more (IMHO) than a TCG/CCG the 'best' game pieces need the best handlers to win at the top levels. But we are agreed that the field was narrower this year than last. There's a entire new faction coming for next year and I haven't lost my trust in FFG just because of the meta being well defined. On the contrary I see the preview articles and with many new game pieces am all like 'Uh-huh, I see what you did there, meta blocking eh?' A lot of this new stuff coming will be solid to play on it's own have, problems with something, but still should be winnable against even that. I mean to say I haven't seen any piece yet that would be a 'dead' draw. So I'm fairly excited. Even if my 58pt Dash might be a bad idea by this time next year

@sunny

Seriously!? You've not played epic yet? Get on it man, epic is awesome. I get a game of it in every week. If I didn't Standard would be so repetitive it'd kill me. Need that to break the monotony.