OK - some people play chess 1 move a week by snail mail, and some play speed chess with a short clock. I usually play X-Wing with 1 partner, and we WAY over think things.

Don't laugh, well you will anyway, but it takes us 3 hrs to finish a 100 pt game with premade squads. So ... to try and speed things up, I got a Gaming/Chess clock. (it works for Warhammer as well, etc)

I'm thinking of assigning a set time limit for each of the four phases. (3-4 ships per side). The time can be different for every phase, w/e, but if a player goes over, he must either remove a shield or hull token on a ship of his own choosing. Pretty much a delay of game penalty.

I have no frame of reference. Any help in nailing down these parameters would be GREATLY appreciated!

For reference, the turn order. How many min/sec per phase?

(1) Planning Phase:

(2) Activation Phase:

Reveal Dial

Set Template

Maneuver

Check for Stress

Clean up

Perform Action

(3) Combat Phase:

Declare Target

Roll & Modify Attack Dice

Roll & Modify Defense Dice

Compare Results

Deal Damage and Crits if Necessary

(4) End Phase:

Thanks in advance. We have a lot of dough invested in this game, but this is becoming frustrating. Hopefully we'll get out internal clock reset and can play a 45min-1hr game.

when i started playing it was the same.

a standrard 100 pt tournament match consists of untimed setup then 75 minutes including deployment, then untimed clean up. a considerable number of these games go to time. so the estimated time for complete games is 1.5 hour.

Maybe you should look at where you all play slow? deciding movements?

a way to mke things faster is to declare a move and action (plus bearing if needed) for each PS same ship and allow the opponent to do his movements too nearly simultaneously if the moves dont really impact each other.

Wouldn't it be enough to have a maximum time for the Planning phase (for both parties)?

Activation Phase will get quicker with time, and for the Combat Phase you can houserule a very short thinking interval for fast decision such as "Should I use focus?"

10 mins for Planning and 10 seconds for choosing to use focus on a dice roll seem like a good place to start.

P.S. How fast is your asteroid/initial ship placement? I usually take a lot longer than my opponent to do those.

We have a little house rule that once you set your maneuver dial down, it can't be changed.

Also, once the opponent has places his/hers .. you get about a minute before jestive insults start.

"Gees, the earth was created in less time. Another 20 minutes and you get day of rest, I bet your wife wish you lasted this long, etc etc."

Whilst bordering on pathetic, it is impossible to plan .. and simultaneously provide adequate retorts.

Maybe it is just the way it is. I have played a fair amount of blood bowl; I have regular opponents with whom a game was played within the hour, no matter what teams we played, no matter if we used expanded rules for a stadium or a magic ball.

I also have a regular opponent with whom the game lasted at least 3 or 3,5 hours, no matter how simple we kept the game.

And I definately can't blame the opponent, it was me as well. Always had fun, which is the most important thing :-)

don't worry too much about it. When I started off playing, I took about 2hrs per game.

Now, my games dont last beyond 30mins, 45min max if my opponent needs a bit more time.

After awhile you will realize what plausible moves each ship actually has, and very soon you will develop your own "autopilot" of sorts. Defaulting to autopilot flying saves a lot of time, and most of the time the autopilot moves are the best already.

That significantly hurts people with complex flightpaths, like Disjointed Swarmists.

don't worry too much about it. When I started off playing, I took about 2hrs per game.

Now, my games dont last beyond 30mins, 45min max if my opponent needs a bit more time.

After awhile you will realize what plausible moves each ship actually has, and very soon you will develop your own "autopilot" of sorts. Defaulting to autopilot flying saves a lot of time, and most of the time the autopilot moves are the best already.

I don't want to start an off-topic debate, but I would not advise any player (especially a new player) to "autopilot" in any way. It's a sure way of losing games. There's always something you could do better, or opponents' moves to account for, or prepare a better following turn and so on.

It's why I'm complete garbage at chess. I don't care enough about the game to look forward more than one-two turns (not so with X-wing though ), so I "auto-pilot" the chess pieces.

don't worry too much about it. When I started off playing, I took about 2hrs per game.

Now, my games dont last beyond 30mins, 45min max if my opponent needs a bit more time.

After awhile you will realize what plausible moves each ship actually has, and very soon you will develop your own "autopilot" of sorts. Defaulting to autopilot flying saves a lot of time, and most of the time the autopilot moves are the best already.

I don't want to start an off-topic debate, but I would not advise any player (especially a new player) to "autopilot" in any way. It's a sure way of losing games. There's always something you could do better, or opponents' moves to account for, or prepare a better following turn and so on.

It's why I'm complete garbage at chess. I don't care enough about the game to look forward more than one-two turns (not so with X-wing though ), so I "auto-pilot" the chess pieces.

perhaps "autopilot" isnt the nicest sounding name for it, but what it essentially is is basically a set of rules that govern how you fly, with respect to the circumstances given within the context of the game. After multiple games, you will start to realize that there are usually only a few "correct" answers, and that's basically your "autopilot". It would have already taken into account all these situations that you have mentioned, and your "autopilot" would get better as you play.

when you choose not to "autopilot" your flight decisions, either you are going for something REALLY unexpected (eg. forward 4 when stressed on Xwing, for eg.) or you are going to fall into those "i know you know, therefore i will think you think i think you think i think, and i will do this in response to your thinking of my thinking of your thinking of my thinking"

don't worry too much about it. When I started off playing, I took about 2hrs per game.

Now, my games dont last beyond 30mins, 45min max if my opponent needs a bit more time.

After awhile you will realize what plausible moves each ship actually has, and very soon you will develop your own "autopilot" of sorts. Defaulting to autopilot flying saves a lot of time, and most of the time the autopilot moves are the best already.

I don't want to start an off-topic debate, but I would not advise any player (especially a new player) to "autopilot" in any way. It's a sure way of losing games. There's always something you could do better, or opponents' moves to account for, or prepare a better following turn and so on.

It's why I'm complete garbage at chess. I don't care enough about the game to look forward more than one-two turns (not so with X-wing though ), so I "auto-pilot" the chess pieces.

perhaps "autopilot" isnt the nicest sounding name for it, but what it essentially is is basically a set of rules that govern how you fly, with respect to the circumstances given within the context of the game. After multiple games, you will start to realize that there are usually only a few "correct" answers, and that's basically your "autopilot". It would have already taken into account all these situations that you have mentioned, and your "autopilot" would get better as you play.

when you choose not to "autopilot" your flight decisions, either you are going for something REALLY unexpected (eg. forward 4 when stressed on Xwing, for eg.) or you are going to fall into those "i know you know, therefore i will think you think i think you think i think, and i will do this in response to your thinking of my thinking of your thinking of my thinking"

I'm sorry but I disagree. I've been doing this lately due to lack of practice and it lost me games.

Every move is important, and every small edge you can get by picking a better move is important. A 3 turn vs. a 2 turn when both clear the asteroids and other ships, a bank-then-straight with 4 Ties vs. straight-then-turn, these aren't choices that have the same best option every time. What you call "auto-pilot" I call intuition. And while you can argue that with infinite experience intuition can cover anything, I don't think you can always count on it, you have to still check every time. If I play the same list over and over again I can get a good intuition of what my possibilities are and which are the good ones, but I still would find myself in new situations where there's that extra option that I wouldn't have considered have I "auto-piloted".

Let's take this offline if you have something to add.

I do flying exercises solo at home. I place the asteroids, take a ship base (or multiple ship bases if practicing formation flying) and then just practice flying through it. I then shuffle the asteroids around and repeat. The more you practice, the easier it gets to eyeball distances in actual matches and it saves a lot of time.

I do flying exercises solo at home. I place the asteroids, take a ship base (or multiple ship bases if practicing formation flying) and then just practice flying through it. I then shuffle the asteroids around and repeat. The more you practice, the easier it gets to eyeball distances in actual matches and it saves a lot of time.

I do this before every tournament, and every so often at home when I have some down time. The more you understand the ships you fly, the faster your game gets.

Simple lists fly faster than complex lists, and small lists (XXX) fly faster than big lists (TIE swarm).

I had a group of friends that I used to play Axis and Allies with back in the day, and we had the same problem with that game. We could play that game literally all day and not finish. I suggested adding time limits to phases depending on which nation you were controlling (Germany always takes longer to play in my experience), but they always got angry at me for even suggesting that. The games got so long that I pretty much refused to play any more because sure you can spend all day planning your moves and purchases, but if the dice roll badly then it's all for nothing, and that to me isn't fun at all. You have to remember that in A&A if everyone takes forever to take their turn, you're looking at literally hours of down time waiting for them over the course of the game.

So you have to ask yourself--are you having fun with the long games? If it's still fun and not draggin on, then why mess with time limits? Take your time and learn the intricacies of the game. Don't rush newer players into making mistakes--the dice are already fickle enough. In my experience, this game doesn't have nearly the down time even when played slowly.

If you do want time limits, I'd simply put them on the Planning phase and give people a certain number of minutes per ship that they control. Maybe put a time limit on Actions as well if necessary.

I think it would be hard to nail now specific time frames for every moment of the game and apply a formula to that. Competitively, 60-75 minutes is usually the norm.

Generally, in the 'Opening' of the game (keeping with your chess reference), the game goes quite fast, as no attacks happen. So dials should go down fairly quickly, actions, no shots, next. Rinse and repeat. Having some pre-define plans for your opening is a big help, going into the game with a plan of how you will fly through the rocks and set up your first round or two of shots. You should be thinking about that as you are setting up your rocks.

In the mid game is where things tend to slow down. Movement is contemplated much more, more so even with more finesse ships like the Interceptor or the Phantom for that matter. More shots, more actions to remember, more special abilities to fire off. Point being, the bulk of your time will be spent here.

The end game is just that, the end. Like the early game, it should go fairly quickly as there are less ships to have to decide what to do with. These may take a bit more time as each choice is a bit more vital to the end of the game, but not nearly as long as the mid game.

The best piece of advice I can give you is this: Practice, practice, practice! For new players, the movement of ships is the hardest thing to wrap your heard around, especially if you are new to miniatures games. But after some practice you will get pretty good at 'eyeballing' where that 2 bank is going to put your ship and if that 4 K-Turn will fly you off of the board. Once you get that down (again, through practice) your pilots special abilities will come quite naturally. After that your games should speed up quite nicely.

I hope that helps.

don't worry too much about it. When I started off playing, I took about 2hrs per game.

Now, my games dont last beyond 30mins, 45min max if my opponent needs a bit more time.

After awhile you will realize what plausible moves each ship actually has, and very soon you will develop your own "autopilot" of sorts. Defaulting to autopilot flying saves a lot of time, and most of the time the autopilot moves are the best already.

I don't want to start an off-topic debate, but I would not advise any player (especially a new player) to "autopilot" in any way. It's a sure way of losing games. There's always something you could do better, or opponents' moves to account for, or prepare a better following turn and so on.

It's why I'm complete garbage at chess. I don't care enough about the game to look forward more than one-two turns (not so with X-wing though ), so I "auto-pilot" the chess pieces.

perhaps "autopilot" isnt the nicest sounding name for it, but what it essentially is is basically a set of rules that govern how you fly, with respect to the circumstances given within the context of the game. After multiple games, you will start to realize that there are usually only a few "correct" answers, and that's basically your "autopilot". It would have already taken into account all these situations that you have mentioned, and your "autopilot" would get better as you play.

when you choose not to "autopilot" your flight decisions, either you are going for something REALLY unexpected (eg. forward 4 when stressed on Xwing, for eg.) or you are going to fall into those "i know you know, therefore i will think you think i think you think i think, and i will do this in response to your thinking of my thinking of your thinking of my thinking"

]

Yeah i hate those things, where I'm like... both of these choices are equally good for my opponent...

still, i have to relearn to fly not so obviously. Apparently I'm quite easy to block. Got really toasted when someone who was good with that skill flew against me.

It's normal for new players to take a while to play through a full 100-point match. Just keep playing. If the games really are taking too long, just set a time limit of 90 minutes or something.

There are a lot of things that can make a game run long for new players. With practice, you'll become more familiar with the maneuver dials and action options so that you're planning BOTH your maneuver and action at the same time, rather than moving and then thinking about what action you want to take.

You'll get better at setting up overlapping fields of fire and concentrating fire on a single ship. The game can run long if you're just dealing a little damage here and there, rather than blasting ships off the board one at a time.

You'll also get better at squad-building and coming up with effective combinations.

So, keep playing and you'll get faster.

If you really want to speed up games, just set the timer for 1hr, and end the game then. Work out the winner based on points destroyed. I've found that's the best way to speed up play and it makes you a faster player.

If you really want to speed up games, just set the timer for 1hr, and end the game then. Work out the winner based on points destroyed. I've found that's the best way to speed up play and it makes you a faster player.

You stole my advice. You'll start to play faster when you realize you're down points...

Also, start generously with the 1hr timer, and then tighten it up

eg:

Play a few games where the 1hr starts after the dials are set for round 1

Then change it so you start the timer when you have finished deployment

Then change it so you start the timer when you start deploymnet

Finally change it to start when you are ready to place asteroids.

Best advice would be to stop overthinking. You need to train yourself into taking the right decision by gut, chances calculations and fast visual on the fly. If you don't start trying to do it faster and faster, you won't get stop requiring to stop a lot to think what to do. So force yourself to, you will make a lot of mistakes, and you will start to learn about those mistakes on the fly and remember them, so the next time you think a little bit about the game outside the game, you will come up with stuff you could had done instead, because that's what humans do best. And then, the next time a similar situation arise, you will be able to handle it quickly withouth requiring you to think and think and think.

Also, it helps a lot that you are thinking your possible movements the turns before. And to be honest, any good player would plan out several maneuvers and actions for his ships a few turns ahead anyways. When i play with somebody who knows to play, the games go really really smooth and fast, normally never past half hour.

Too many games against Phantoms with swarms... trying to get the checkmate position in a few turns, before he can get away with it requires some careful planning sometimes ;P

Just reduce the points. Instead of a 100 point game...play 75 point games. They are really fun too. And when you start finishing those in 30 minutes jump up to the 100 again.

If you are having fun then 2 hours will fly, but it sounds like you aren't. I'd suggest you practice like you play and keep yourselves to 1 or 1.5 hours per game like a tournament rather than a chess clock that you will not find at any tournament. My other suggestion would be to expand to 4 players and alternate opponents to keep things fresh. Regardless, whoever is ahead at the end of the alloted time wins. Don't wait for a total kill to end the match.

I can almost always get a game in with my usual partner in under 1.5 hours. It usually only goes long if we're using interceptors/phantoms/other big maneuverability ships in the end game trying to eeek out a win when we shouldn't.

2 Really simple things to do:

Set up- make sure you have 2 sets of range rulers, templates, and all tokens a ship could need out on the table and accessible.

Round 1,2: I often ask if we can just set up as we would be in round 2 at planning. Your first moves almost never create a situation where anything happens the first round. You can set up your ships using templates and then go through actions by PS if that matters. It does shave 5 or more minutes off a game and sometimes longer. Every now and then you just say "no" or don't ask and set up regular so if someone wants to do special openings they can.

The last thing is don't always play till the last ship standing. There is almost always clear (especially casually) winner. You can often get 2 games in during the same time it would take you to play 1 long game till last ship standing.

You don't need to use a timer like that. Just shift to the normal tourney rules where you stop the game at 75 minutes. It'll get you playing faster in no time. I have had untimed games where we went for two hours and we normally can do a match in under 60 simply because we were dodging each other.