I know that after the battle ends at a non-first planet the warlord goes back to HQ and surviving units remain at planet. However, I was playing someone and he retreated his units after battle, not keeping them at planet. I felt like this was wrong, that the units should remain, but I felt like I couldn't refute his interpretation of the rules. I couldn't find anything in either book that specifically said this was illegal.

I found the part in How to Play that says they remain at planet but he also pointed out the rule about retreating any and all units after combat.

Which of us is right here, and where can I reference the correct answer?

Thanks!

Each player can only retreat units between combat rounds. A combat round ends after all units are exhausted on both sides.

You cannot retreat units after the battle is over.

RRG 3.2.10

And these threads cover battles and retreat as well

http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php?/topic/17990-battle-are-retreat-rules-different-between-planet-1-and-other-planets/

http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php?/topic/17901-battle-can-i-retreat-if-the-battle-is-won-in-the-first-combat-round/

Thanks - I knew I was on the right path but just couldn't back up my argument!

So, the Warlord always goes back to HQ? We've been leaving him out there until he commits again next turn.

Alphasquid - don't leave him out. He always goes back to HQ after a battle.

If you look at the timing window (RRG page 22), there MIGHT be a window for retreating.

3.2.10 specifies that the battle ends basically if it is a player's turn to attack and there are no opposing units.

If you defeat the opponent's last unit while exhausting your last unit (opponent: 0 units, you: all units exhausted) - this is action 3.2.7

You then proceed to 3.2.8 - no readied units remain, end of combat round. Proceed to 3.2.9. Ready units, retreat . Return to Action Window and then to 3.2.6 or 3.2.7 (if you have initiative).

THIS is when 3.2.10 would trigger, ending the Battle, right?

The situation you describe is possible. It is also entirely consistent with the earlier explanation. The battle hasn't ended yet (because there has been no attempt to attack without a defender), so you still need to go through the "end combat round" sequence (the only time non-warlord units can retreat) before getting to the next opportunity to attack.

Toqtamish explained it well over at cardgamedb. To quote him:

"Remember units travelling from HQ with your Warlord arrive exhausted. Her Warlord attacks and kills your one unit. All units at the planet are now exhausted and the combat round ends. Then her units ready and she has option to retreat as many as she likes.

Battles do Not automatically end when all opposing units are dead, they end when a ready unit starts its combat turn unopposed. If all her units were exhausted she could not win that battle until the next combat round."

If you win a battle at a non-firstplanet you may only retreat your warlord.

" When a player wins a battle at any other planet, his

maintaining their state. " page 11 "Winning a Battle"

You may however retreat any unit between combat rounds(when both players refresh their units).

If at the biggining of a combat round, you are the only player with units left,the battle ends. You may not retreat any units except your warlord (by default).

If you are the only player with units left when you refresh units, and choose to retreat, no one wins the battle.

If you are the only player with units left when you refresh units, and choose to retreat, no one wins the battle.

...unless you leave at least one unit at the planet. Retreat is decided individually for each unit, it's not all or nothing.

Battles do Not automatically end when all opposing units are dead, they end when a ready unit starts its combat turn unopposed . If all her units were exhausted she could not win that battle until the next combat round."

This is what is at the heart of most people's confusion, I think. It's easy to think the goal of combat is to get rid of all enemy units, rather than to attack an empty field. As a result, the situation MsbS describes -- which is fairly common -- and it's corresponding standard opportunity to retreat during the "reset" between battle rounds is not intuitive to a lot of people.

So, basically, if all your units are exhausted and you destroyed your enemy's forces on a non-first planet, you MAY withdraw some of your units. If you withdraw all units, the battle will end in a draw.

But beware - before you claim your victory, there will be an Action Window. Your opponent may deploy units with Ambush (and defeat your leftover forces).

If you have any units ready when you destroy the opponent's last unit - you will not have a chance to withdraw: the 'smaller loop' in the battle flow will return to you and you will win the planet (withdrawal option is not a part of the 'smaller loop'). Again - before you claim the planet, there will be an Action Window and possible Ambush.

Not sure if my description is clear...

MsbS,

Yes - your example is clear/correct.

It would be silly to retreat all your units on such a scenario and have the battle end in a draw. In that case just retreat all the army units and leave the warlord to "finish up" the next round so you can trigger the battle ability of the planet.

The description is very clear in terms of the outcomes.

The only thing I think might be unclear to some people is that the same rules:

• Rule #1: You may retreat any number of your units between combat rounds.
• Rule #2: Combat isn't over until a ready unit has no enemies to attack

are being applied in both situations.

Maybe I'm cynical, but I've been around rules forums long enough to know that some people are likely to read your excellent description and think they are rules -- i.e., "If your opponent has no units and all of yours are exhausted, you can retreat;" and "If your opponent has no units and any of yours are ready, you cannot retreat." -- instead of different applications of the same rules in different situation.

I don't like this rules interaction at all. It's the sort of thing that when you first point it out to someone, or do it to someone, they will think you are cheating or abusing the rules. You certainly aren't at all, but it's not intuitive that sometimes you can retreat after you kill your opponent's last unit and sometimes you can't.

It creates feel bad moments.

Alphasquid,

I do know what you're saying. It's the reason I started this thread. When it was done to me the first time I didn't know it could be done and it was a feel bad moment!

That said, if someone doesn't know the rules it's not your problem... (but it does create a feel bad moment).

Alphasquid,

I do know what you're saying. It's the reason I started this thread. When it was done to me the first time I didn't know it could be done and it was a feel bad moment!

That said, if someone doesn't know the rules it's not your problem... (but it does create a feel bad moment).

Without dragging this on, we could just say that your were right from the beginning =)

I had to read the rules a few times before i got a hang of how it works.

You did give a great example above, you could choose to retreat all army units, keep your warlord at the planet, then on your combat turn, claim the victory.

If you are the only player with units left when you refresh units, and choose to retreat, no one wins the battle.

...unless you leave at least one unit at the planet. Retreat is decided individually for each unit, it's not all or nothing.

Correct,

but the scenario was that the other player retreated all his units, then claimed the victory. My example above is based on that.

So, basically, if all your units are exhausted and you destroyed your enemy's forces on a non-first planet, you MAY withdraw some of your units. If you withdraw all units, the battle will end in a draw.

But beware - before you claim your victory, there will be an Action Window. Your opponent may deploy units with Ambush (and defeat your leftover forces).

If you have any units ready when you destroy the opponent's last unit - you will not have a chance to withdraw: the 'smaller loop' in the battle flow will return to you and you will win the planet (withdrawal option is not a part of the 'smaller loop'). Again - before you claim the planet, there will be an Action Window and possible Ambush.

Not sure if my description is clear...

Correct, and as clear as it can be!

Alphasquid,

I do know what you're saying. It's the reason I started this thread. When it was done to me the first time I didn't know it could be done and it was a feel bad moment!

That said, if someone doesn't know the rules it's not your problem... (but it does create a feel bad moment).

Without dragging this on, we could just say that your were right from the beginning =)

I had to read the rules a few times before i got a hang of how it works.

You did give a great example above, you could choose to retreat all army units, keep your warlord at the planet, then on your combat turn, claim the victory.

I'm confused, because I didn't chime in until the end. Did you mean to quote someone else?

Alphasquid,

I do know what you're saying. It's the reason I started this thread. When it was done to me the first time I didn't know it could be done and it was a feel bad moment!

That said, if someone doesn't know the rules it's not your problem... (but it does create a feel bad moment).

Without dragging this on, we could just say that your were right from the beginning =)

I had to read the rules a few times before i got a hang of how it works.

You did give a great example above, you could choose to retreat all army units, keep your warlord at the planet, then on your combat turn, claim the victory.

I'm confused, because I didn't chime in until the end. Did you mean to quote someone else?

Hi, yes i quoted sammann11's quote, when he quoted you =)

Week!

Played our first game last night and got this all wrong!

Not sure I even understand it now but will sit down with some scenarios laid out and work through it.

In terms of retreating the Warlord - can this be done only during a combat turn or can he also be retreated between combat rounds?

Cheers

Amdy

Any unit can be retreated at the end of a combat round, but the warlord has the ability to use their attack action to retreat.

So yes, a warlord can retreat from battle by:

1) action and exhausting

2) at the end of a combat round

3) automatically return to HQ when the battle is over.

Other units will only return to HQ by retreating at the end of a combat round or when the planet is added to a victory display. Of course explicit card effects can add more ways of doing this.

He can be retreated between combat rounds, as can he any surviving army/token unit. Keep in mind that if you're going to retreat a warlord during a combat turn, he must be ready. An exhausted warlord cannot be retreated.

Oh well, Khouri beat me to it.

Ologotai,

Basic rule of thumb is this: Combat Phase ends when there is 1 or more ready attackers but there are no surviving defenders (opponents units) to attack at that planet.

If all your guys are exhausted and no one's left on the opposing side, then the above criteria has not been met. All units at that planet then must do the following 3 things:

1) refresh

2) option to retreat any/all

3) check to see if there is an eligible defender (which in this example there is not).

4) because answer to 3) is no, NOW combat ends.