Yeah, when I did my MathWing: Accuracy Corrector post on it, I think I came to the same conclusion that it still would not redeem the TIE Advanced.

My main problem with it, is that it significantly reduces the design space. Why even bother adding the System Slot? You might as well just say "Add Accuracy Corrector to this ship and make it 3 points more expensive". And the PS4 and Steele would still never see use.

This would get more people to fly the Advanced, but it would also shift the tactics of the opponent, as no one is going to just leave an auto-hitting ship like that alone until mop-up time. I think it would be worth at least playtesting amongst ourselves, just to see what it looks like in practice.

Absolutely, I am all about playtesting different ideas.

Honestly, with how I use the Advanced when I play (as a durable, arc-dodging flanker, with Engine Upgraded added on), I think I would be more likely to take Sensor Jammer over Accuracy Corrector anyway. The major issue I have with Accuracy Corrector is how it waters down your Range 1 attacks. While this may not be a big issue on say, a TIE Bomber, the Advanced (especially with an Engine Upgrade) is going to be firing at Range 1 quite a bit.

Again, it'll be interesting to see what actually happens. I think a Sensor upgrade slot wouldn't be the worst thing you could give the Advanced. A 0- or 1-point title that gave them access to the Boost action would be a serious pain on this ship. Saving those points for another upgrade would make the ship very flyable, without overpowering Vader.

Just my two cents. And on an unrelated note, I love the Norse rune there, MajorJuggler.

Just my two cents. And on an unrelated note, I love the Norse rune there, MajorJuggler.

I'm a fan of Lord of the Rings, and wanted a unique icon for a Star Wars forum here, so I choose the "Will of the West" symbol.

Just my two cents. And on an unrelated note, I love the Norse rune there, MajorJuggler.

I'm a fan of Lord of the Rings, and wanted a unique icon for a Star Wars forum here, so I choose the "Will of the West" symbol.

Ah, gotcha. It's also very similar to the rune for the number 1. Fun stuff!

Here is my take, Vader should be the equivalent of Wedge. They both cost the same and so should have equivalence.

Right now if I field Wedge with or without upgrades, he is going to significantly affect the way my opponent takes on my squad as he is a major player on the field. The opponent needs to chose between shooting Wedge or shooting another target and there is a tradeoff either way he goes.

Right now, if I field Vader, I don't get that he will impact my opponents play as much.

Now I am okay saying that the defense that Vader offers is equal to the offense that Wedge offers, but I don't think that is the case at this point in time. Vader is not viewed as a player on the table the way Wedge is.

I was wondering when the TIE Advance would make the front page again.

What about a Hybrid Expose/Oppotunist as a Missile?

Slot : Missile Cost : 2pts

Action: Increase your Primary Attack to 3 when attacking Inside your Firing Arc during the Combat Phase and receive 1 Stress.

If I'm remembering the Range Rules those "add Dice" not increase Values. Originally I was thinking to just increase primary by 1 but then Defenders would always take the Missile. And having it not limited to TIE Advance means it benefits the other Missile Carriers also because of the "Firing Arc" isn't auto-include for the Outrider.

And we need attractive pilots.

Adding an FCS or just a systems slot does actually make it better, butnit does need more. It has 2 attack dice because it's just got the two blaster cannon spots on the ball, it would be nice to have 3 red dice to throw, but it needs a good reason. A card with upgraded blastrs is just gonna cost more and most people think will be a lame upgrade. I say make it more maneuverable and give it some systems options.

The problem with giving any 2 attack ship a System Upgrade slot is this:

For any ship with reasonable durability (like the TIE Advanced) it would be auto-include, and you could take evade as an action to also simultaneously increase your durability.

I forgot about that one, but I think it's still good to give a system slot as there are other options to choose. The easy 2 hits is nice, but some might want to BR first then move..

Options.. always a good thing.

A hyperdrive in this game is useless, even a kicro jump would take you out of the playimg field.

However, in Attack Wing.... http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Picard_Maneuver

That might have soundee like a good arguement, but this isn't attack wing, and I am very glad for it. I dislike a lot of the crap that gets pulled in that game.

I will reitterate... hyperdrive has no use in X wing. Your battles do not jump around, and if they did you could use an easy game mechanic to get that point across. It would be very easy to have ships just max move in a straight line then as acion hit the hyperdrive. Then place then on the new map in a specified area.. simple and esay. Get on with the game then..

People like to complicate things with extra rules or house rules. FFG made a great game, utilize the rules and enjoy the game.

MJ knows I'm not a fan of mathwing, but I appreciate the hard work that goes into doing what he's done. His house rules might be interesting to use, but I'm a fan of just using the rules we have.

This is a simple, beer and pretzels game.. I like it that way I'm a simple man, and that's alright...

Vader, EU, Prockets, and outmaneuver is really good and competitive!

We did a 125-point match the other night at the FLGS. These were builds to have fun with, not practice for tournaments so no questioning squad build. In the end, it came down to one Tempest and the Sigma against Wedge, who to end the game in spectacular fashion drove straight into an asteroid to take his final hull point of damage and go [bOOM].

Keeping Jonus handy for the Prockets made for one devastating 5-hit attack roll that resulted in a one-shot again Airen. The Phantom was brilliant with ES, but it certainly made for a new and more challenging way to fly it. Slipping in to range one against one of the Knaves that was without any shields resulted in it going *poof* in very quickly.

Overall, the T/Adv were quite efficient. The furball was a nasty affair but with the close range fighting, the Prockets made their presence felt very quickly. Sure the T/Adv doesn't pack an efficient punch, but with the same agility and evade options as a basic TIE, and the added shield points, it certainly does add to their survivability if flown well.

Me - 124pt
Tempest Sqd w/Prockets

Tempest Sqd w/Prockets

Tempest Sqd w/Prockets

Jonus w/Determination

Sigma Phantom w/EScope, SPA, & IntAgt

Him - 125pt

Wedge w/Swarm, R2D2 & Hull

Airen W/Swarm

Knave

Knave

Bandit

I don't think Vader is anywhere close to getting overpowered, I think a fix to make all TIE Advanced good will just make him great, and that's fine.

How can we encourage more TIE Advanced fans to play the game? I have not seen many TIE Advanced players at the local gaming nights, and the few times they were there they were mocked and made fun of. It's obvious that there is a problem, because I only see X-wing and TIE Fighter players, but very vew (if any) TIE Advanced players.

Is it common that you get [ship type] players, rather than playing with whatever sounds fund to them at the time?

Don't take my comment at face value, I was just playing around. But I too am rather embarrassed when I take out the TIE Advanced, and I only use Vader to give a phantom PS11, so it's not much use. Looking forward to the buff(s)!

I'm almost certain FFG will have taken care of it and we now just have to wait and see what they have done....

It is going to be difficult for them to come up with a solution that makes the generics competitive without making Vader overpowered.

I can live with a slightly overpowered Vader. It's good for the game in general to have a Vader that is feared, it's nice to see when new people gather around your game, seeing it for the first time they go "Oh you have Vader against Han! Wow!".

Mix of A-Wing and Interceptor Aces.

Missile refit for -2 points

0 point title that allows for 2 Modifications. (especially if a modification will be used down the line to weaken red turret dice when outside a ship's firing arc)

I like this.

But, as juggle pointed out - consider Vader, now:

Ps 9 with two modifications for 27 points

Actually, mods kind of suck anyway but imagine super defensive Vader - 34 points for a ship with 4 hull, 3 shields, an evade and a focus token. My god, man.

Or maybe 31 points for Vader with engine upgrade and stealth device?

I like it! Rather than making the advanced more in line with the offensive nature of the game, super buff it's defence, bring out a different aspect of the game. Facing a defensive advanced like this, you'd really need a heavy hitter to hope to do any damage to it. Defensive Vader would go toe to toe with swarms of 2-attack ships without likely taking much of any damage

Oops, you were referring to /that/ thread, I get it, hehe.

Sorry, quoting not working here, but somebody mentioned riffing on the idea that it was a test bed. I like this, and in a similar vain to the A Wing's test pilot upgrade, how about

"Title: TIE Advanced Test Pilot

Increase your pilot skill value by two. Your upgrade bar gains an Elite Pilot Talent icon.

0pts"

I'd make the various TIE advanced based ships Modifications instead of Titles, with a "you may equip one extra Modification card" clause so they basically don't take a slot.

Regarding Starkiller - I like that idea! I'm thinking it'd make a good EPT upgrade, but I'd make it also reduce your agility by one. I know it's a bit similar to Expose, but it's riskier as you can only use it when in somebody's arc.

I don't want a fixed tie advanced that negates any point in FFG making a tie avenger

They're so close is it really necessary? I can live without it.

What if they just made a sticker to put over the point cost on the pilot card, with a reduced price (maybe 2 points cheaper on average)? There is nothing inherently BAD about the TIE Advanced, except the price point.

Cheap, easy fix, not requiring any extra rules, just a rules addendum and the stickers for the existing models/cards (reprints can be manufactured with the "correct" cost)- voila!... problem fixed at minimum cost and fuss.

Vader will never be a better pilot until hhe gets his asromech back. R2-D2 is actually the best pilot in the galaxy. He just made Lukeb and Vader look good.

Titles:

x1-upgrade bar gains one ept. -3 cost. Unique.

x2-upgrade bar gains system upgrade slot. -3 cost

X3- when you choose to kturn,you may instead perform an Sloop. -2 cost

Avenger prototype- you may use the tie interceptor dial. -1 cost

Aggressor prototype- after you perform an action, you may rotate your name base 180. -2 cost

x7-you may use tie defender's dial. -2 cost

New Pilots-

Sith Inquisitor

PS 6, generic. EPT. 24pts

The Inquisitor

PS 7,EPT. 25pts

When you declare an attack,the defender gains a stress token. If the declareattack,the defender is a named rebel pilot, you may reroll one dice.

Academy Professor

PS 5. EPT. 23pts

Generic allied ships at range 1-2 may spend evade or focus tokens from allied ships at range 1-2.

New modifications-

Prototype model (advanced, interceptor, or defender only): if you take a title upgrade and/or no upgrade, reduce this ships cost by 1.

Hyperdrive (no idea for cost): do not place this ship during the placement phase. During the first end phase, place this ship within range 2 of any allied ship.

Life support system (1pt):

When dealt a face dowmn damage card, look at it. If it is a pilot card discard that card and turn this card facedown.

Munitions safety switch (1pt):

If your ship is destroyed and you have an unused torpedo or missile,your opponent does not score victory points for that upgrade.

I don't want a fixed tie advanced that negates any point in FFG making a tie avenger

They're so close is it really necessary? I can live without it.

Make your own with an interceptor and advanced.

I don't want a half done advanced fix to preserve this strange obsession with a ship that has no role and would take up a release slot.

Maybe you guys weren't into the XWing PC games..

The Avenger played a huge role in XWing and especially Tie Fighter

To have a Tie Advanced but no Avenger is like..

A tabletop WW2 game that has Elefant and King Tigers but no Panzer 3 or 4 tanks...

The Avengers were used much more than both the Defenders and the Advanced series ...

Maybe you guys weren't into the XWing PC games..

The Avenger played a huge role in XWing and especially Tie Fighter

Nope I such at video games.. and honestly I think video games should not be canon.. just my opinion.

Video games just seem to muddy the waters. They put missiles on ships that have no room on them for those... just silly in my book..

I don't want a fixed tie advanced that negates any point in FFG making a tie avenger

To have a Tie Advanced but no Avenger is like..

A tabletop WW2 game that has Elefant and King Tigers but no Panzer 3 or 4 tanks...

The Avengers were used much more than both the Defenders and the Advanced series ...

The obvious solution is for FFG to release an Imperial Prototypes pack that includes two TIE Advanced x1 models that use the TIE Avenger sculpt, along with 3 copies of a title to upgrade your TIE Advanced x1 to a TIE Avenger (and maybe another 3 copies of a title to upgrade to another mark of Advanced, x2 or x3 maybe).

This gets TIE Advanced owners a much needed upgrade while still allowing TIE Avenger fans to get their hands on the mini.

To have a Tie Advanced but no Avenger is like..

A tabletop WW2 game that has Elefant and King Tigers but no Panzer 3 or 4 tanks...

The Avengers were used much more than both the Defenders and the Advanced series ...

The advanced was a prototype.. it really, probably shouldn't have much more to it other than titled upgrades or modifications. It was a great platform for that.. I feel there 8 no room for avengers because there are interceptors and defenders now.. no real reason to have them..

They're so close is it really necessary? I can live without it.

They actually end up being very different.

Still... probably not enough for a new sculpt...

I could be wrong... but only time will tell. FFG has done unexpected things before.. I'm betting again avengers.. but I didn't play the video games.. so I'm not a fan of those.