HWK or Ywing?

If I run blaster turret, should I go HWK with Moldy Crow for stocking Focus, or Recon for two-for-one?

Note, I'll also be running a naked Cracken.

IIRC with 2 or 3 attack dice, with or without focus, the Y-Wing requires one more attack to die than the HWK.

If you want to run blaster, take the hawk as you need the extra focus and there is not an easy way to get it on a Y without support. I prefer the Y for durability in most other situations. In my experience, the Y is quite a bit harder to kill due to the extra hull and shields over the hawk.

Truly, the answer depends on

A) How you build them
B) How you fly them

I'll tell you this: The Blaster Turret does not actually exist for Y-Wings, and it costs 7 on a HWK. The Recon Specialist is required, y'see.

The Y-Wing is generally tougher than the HWK.

However, if you are looking for a Blaster Turret platform then you had better go with the HWK and probably should plan on taking Recon Specialist and have the Moldy Crow title. The Blaster Turret on a Y-Wing is just asking for trouble as you really don't want to rely on other ships to make your own attacks work.

Kyle katarn hawk that can use stored focus for defence rolls.

The HWK is the better Blaster turret platform for now. However, the Y-wing does have more durability. Really the Hwk is less durable than an X-wing. It doesn't have that extra shield to protect it from crits.

I'm pretty sure women live longer. Is that exclusionary?

(runs and hides)

It's a joke! <Opportunist>

Answering the actual question posed, the Y-Wing lives longer. Period, no caveats, the Y-Wing is significantly harder to kill than the HWK no matter what is shooting at it and no matter whether or not you have focus available (or even a pile of focus available).

Neither Recon Specialist nor Moldy Crow alone will allow you to consistently use the Blaster turret. If you only have the Crow, then you will rapidly (like, in 1 turn) run out of focus tokens. If you have Rec Spec alone, you won't be able to shoot at all when you are denied an action for any reason. If you have both Rec Spec and Crow, the Blaster Turret is now a semi-reliable 10 point (10!) turret on a fragile slow platform.

Alternately, you can just run the thing for minimum points (HWK with Blaster Turret for 20), and put up with the poor accuracy. This is probably the most efficient use of your points when running a Blaster Turret, strangely, despite the poor attack, and can be adequately dangerous as long as Cracken is available. In the end, however, your HWK won't last long without focus to use on defense, and short of sinking a ton of points into the thing there is no way to have enough focus available for offense and defense when using a Blaster Turret.

For a blaster you are better off with the HWK, after the Spanish nationals an giving the winning list some thought. If you play slow on engaging or a control style you are better off with the title. It gives you more possibilities. And if Arien has squad leader the title is superior. Also a single bump takes the HWK with a recon out for the turn.
Funny how I first thought the title was crap...

A few thoughts as OP:

I'm thinking a 23pt HWK - Reb. Op. + Recon + Blaster

Yes, a bump hurts quite a bit, but it's no different than leaving myself without a shot anyway. And with Cracken I up my chances for the later action. Sadly I don't have room for Squad Leader unless I drop Keyan for Ibit, which doesn't please me.

As it stands I'm running Jake, Keyan and Airen, I just need something to fill out the points and I like the idea of a turret.

Something to remember about Cracken supporting a Blaster equipped HWK is that the HWK can still only take the Focus action once each turn, Cracken may help make sure it gets that Focus but with the Crow you still aren't building tokens very quickly.

I agree that there are a lot of problems with Blaster Turret, but honestly... run whichever you feel is better, though I personally like Moldy Crow as opposed to Recon. I find that blasters are good against opposing low agility ships, or maybe hitting limpy ships that have one or two hits left, buuuuut that just makes me want to run an A-Wing or cheap 3 dice ship instead. If you have really good dice luck, and some people do (like me!), then go for blaster turret. Otherwise, I suggest throwing an Ion Turret on with Tactician on board as well. You'll have a ship that instantly causes misery to your enemy when those ion blasts and stress tokens when they're in that sweet sweet range 2 attack band.

Also, to answer your original question, the Y-Wing has better survivability, but I find they get shot at more often.

I much prefer moldy to recon: bumping costs less, and slow rolling is good for you. and sometimes you want to spend more than 2 a turn.

HWK or Ywing?

If I run blaster turret, should I go HWK with Moldy Crow for stocking Focus, or Recon for two-for-one?

Note, I'll also be running a naked Cracken.

As dvor and KO said, the Y-wing is noticeably tougher.

As for turrets, the right question for me isn't really whether to run Blaster Turret + Recon Specialist or Blaster Turret + Moldy Crow, but whether it's worth spending 7 points for a Blaster Turret versus 5 points for an Ion Cannon Turret.

Against one naked defense die, Blaster Turret + focus token has about a 70% chance of dealing more damage than Ion Cannon Turret + focus token (the mode increases from 1 to 2, and the average just about doubles). Against 3 Agility with a focus token, though, the Blaster Turret has just a 32% chance to deal additional damage (and the increase in the average is much more modest).

So the best use of the Blaster Turret is against ships you're already very likely to hit. If you expect to face a lot of those, and you don't think the control offered by an ion token is likely to be useful for you, take BT + Recon Specialist. If you want to be prepared against a more general set of opponents, and/or you think the ion token is worth more than a chance at extra damage, I'd ditch the Blaster Turret for the effectively cheaper ICT.

Truly, the answer depends on

A) How you build them

B) How you fly them

I'll tell you this: The Blaster Turret does not actually exist for Y-Wings, and it costs 7 on a HWK. The Recon Specialist is required, y'see.

Some thoughts...

First, the blaster turret is very inefficient for Rebel Y-wings; Garvin, Airen, Dutch or Kyle supporting the blaster turret Y-wing can work but it is generally a poor use of resources (although an argument could be made for Kyle & Dutch supporting each other). Anyhow, the R4 Agromech will make the Blaster turret a common choice for Scum Ys and THE choice for Kavil.

Secondly, for a Jan Ors HWK (unless you're also running a Kyle HWK) Kyle Katarn is a far better crew than a Recon Specialist, because: a) you're going to be stressed most of the time and more importantly, b) its a focus token that CANNOT be stopped by blocking. If you start the turn with a stress and perform a green maneuver you receive one focus. If you're not blocked, you'll still get your action, which can be another focus.

Here are my takes:

1. On average, it takes 1 more attack die to down a Y-Wing (15 vs 16 EHPS). But that just on average. The HWK has 2 agility which means it will vary more than the Y-Wing. Which means sometimes when the dice are with you, it will live much, much longer and sometimes it will go down in 5 hits. I go for averages more myself (besides for 1 pt you can put that crazy R5 astromech that really helps keep the Y-Wing in the game even longer)

2. I have had very good experiences with Horton and Blaster Turret. His rerolls at range 2 really do a number on the enemies (by the numbers, its actually just as good as his normal attack at range 2 with a focus, but its 360 degrees). That being said, its even better on a HWK with recon/moldy crow. You move slow build up a stock of 6-8 focuses and then target lock for as long as you can. I have flown an expensive Roark like that and it works well.

Here are my takes:

1. On average, it takes 1 more attack die to down a Y-Wing (15 vs 16 EHPS). But that just on average. The HWK has 2 agility which means it will vary more than the Y-Wing. Which means sometimes when the dice are with you, it will live much, much longer and sometimes it will go down in 5 hits. I go for averages more myself (besides for 1 pt you can put that crazy R5 astromech that really helps keep the Y-Wing in the game even longer)

2. I have had very good experiences with Horton and Blaster Turret. His rerolls at range 2 really do a number on the enemies (by the numbers, its actually just as good as his normal attack at range 2 with a focus, but its 360 degrees). That being said, its even better on a HWK with recon/moldy crow. You move slow build up a stock of 6-8 focuses and then target lock for as long as you can. I have flown an expensive Roark like that and it works well.

Interesting thought with Horton. I'd lay the R2 on him, to make him more mobile and help shed stress so I can keep taking those Focuses.

I'm looking at

Keyan + PtL

Jake + Outmaneuver + Refit

Horton + Blaster + R2

Tala

I'm not totally sold on Horton, but I'll add him to the list of things to consider.

Horton with Blaster + R2D6 + Predator would be interesting. Now I'm re-rolling blanks and eyeballs looking for hits/crits. It does however take enough points that I can't also have a Z95 to round it out and I don't know if I like 3 ships here.

I may be the only one in the world that thinks this, but I find with a turret, I don't need the extra green maneuvers. I spend the whole game doing white maneuvers so I never gain stress. (2 turn, 3 bank, omg a 1 bank). I just don't need the 4 straight, 4 K or 3 turns. Now at some point someone is going to have a build that inflicts stress on Horton and I will regret not having an R2, but those are pretty rare at this point.

I may be the only one in the world that thinks this, but I find with a turret, I don't need the extra green maneuvers. I spend the whole game doing white maneuvers so I never gain stress. (2 turn, 3 bank, omg a 1 bank). I just don't need the 4 straight, 4 K or 3 turns. Now at some point someone is going to have a build that inflicts stress on Horton and I will regret not having an R2, but those are pretty rare at this point.

If your opponent has left a space big enough to do that and isn't trying to block you for action denial he's doing something wrong.

I may be the only one in the world that thinks this, but I find with a turret, I don't need the extra green maneuvers. I spend the whole game doing white maneuvers so I never gain stress. (2 turn, 3 bank, omg a 1 bank). I just don't need the 4 straight, 4 K or 3 turns. Now at some point someone is going to have a build that inflicts stress on Horton and I will regret not having an R2, but those are pretty rare at this point.

If your opponent has left a space big enough to do that and isn't trying to block you for action denial he's doing something wrong.

So maybe:

Horton + R2D6 + Blaster + Predator

Airen + Squad Leader

Keyan + PtL + FCS

Bandit

I may be the only one in the world that thinks this, but I find with a turret, I don't need the extra green maneuvers. I spend the whole game doing white maneuvers so I never gain stress. (2 turn, 3 bank, omg a 1 bank). I just don't need the 4 straight, 4 K or 3 turns. Now at some point someone is going to have a build that inflicts stress on Horton and I will regret not having an R2, but those are pretty rare at this point.

If your opponent has left a space big enough to do that and isn't trying to block you for action denial he's doing something wrong.

It takes 5 or 6 small based ships to block every (non-red) move option for a Y-wing... so unless you're flying a swarm that still means predicting your opponent's move and its easy to over commit against one ship.

And that's assuming you can even place your ships in blocking position at all. In preparation for scum, I've been working on counter blocking formations to protect Kavil's action. Basically forcing my opponent to block another ship (in most lists it's Kaa'To Leachos) to the point it fails to clear its initial position, because Kavil will move into that ships position on the most critical turns. Alternatively looking at flying a wedge formation of Z's of varying PS around Kavil to do the same thing an counter block the enemy ships.

While I've been exploring this for scum it's easily doable for both rebels and the Empire.

PS is a double edged sword when it comes to blocking and action denial. Sometimes you need higher, sometimes you need lower. Heck I've screwed over a Biggs formation by dropping PS3 A-wings behind his PS 2 squad-mates after they moved. I wish I saw Howlrunner more often because I really want to block her out of R1 of her TIEs, it'd be hilarious.

TL; DR: Blocking works both ways: it can be done by a ship both before and after its movement, actively and passively.

I agree that, as an ion platform, you tend to cruise around and don't reall need the stock R2 for manuverability. This brings up an overlooked part of this whole debate, the astromechs, of which there are several oustanding choices. Want extra survivability? R5-D8, R2-D2, R7, R5, or R4-D6. This adds even more durability to the y-wing as compared to the hawk. My personal favorites though are R7-T1 and R3-A2. It's easy for the Y to shed the stress if it's got a turret.

Granted, there are some great crew options with the Hawk, and blaster can be made to work on the hawk, but it's still not a great solution. you end up with a lot of points on a fragile ship which still needs to use all of it's actions to make blaster work....then carnor or dark curse shows up.

As a frequent y-wing driver, I agree that a Y-wing draws a lot of hate, especially if it is packing an ion turret. Your opponent will often ignore other ships and try to kill it first. this is almost always a good thing. First, It takes a lot to kill it, second, the rest of your ships are free to make them pay. I usually smile inwardly when my oponent goes after my Y-wing, think of it as a free Biggs, but tougher.

FIRESPRAY!!!

Sorry, wrong thread.