http://teamcovenant.com/scumandvillainy/2014/10/29/scum-and-villainy-podcast-episode-9/

It’s the return of the one and only Mr Froggies! Join Kelvan, Theorist, and Sable as we greet our friend and talk about the upcoming Worlds tournament. What will you almost definitely have to defeat, perhaps twice or more on your way to final table? Are there dangerous squad archetypes that you haven’t prepared to face, or haven’t considered bringing? We cover it all in this episode, so give us a listen.

TCO Round of 32

Canadian Nationals Results

SQUADS WE LOVED

Kelvan — Can a Rebel 5-Swarm handle this meta?
Theorist — Is “Ion spam” a re-emerging meta giant?
Froggies — Can the Lambda shuttle run over all others?

Sable’s question: Does the all-tank squad have game?

How do you like Sable's creation? What squad do you have to be aware of going into Worlds? What's going to be the winning list. Feel free to discuss below!

Greact cast guys, thanks for the thoughts on worlds. Your audio seems to cut out around 55 minutes though and then the outro plays at the end.

Downloaded and getting ready to listen to now! Thanks for the hard work guys!

AUDIO FIXED!

that was just a teaser for 2 clicks.... right? Right!

I will be posting the other squads we received here for discussion because there were many many squads I want to cover and I want to cover them before worlds.

Lets start with Sable's squad.

My Thoughts:

The good:

Tankalicious. This will be a MOV monster. Serious candidate to see top 16 in any flight.

The Bad:

I would prefer Hull over stealth. If there were a way to get engine on Chewbacca I'd like that as well, heck i might prefer it over stealth/hull in Gemmer and Falcon title. Additionally this is lacking a little firepower in only 3 ships, especially with one being an A wing.

Your thoughts?

I was just going to give you a heads up on the last 12 minutes of the show! Re-downloading now! It was right when Jeff was about to make an amazing point I am sure too!

I was just going to give you a heads up on the last 12 minutes of the show! Re-downloading now! It was right when Jeff was about to make an amazing point I am sure too!

Rebel control.... We have high hopes. oh wait spoilers.

I will be posting the other squads we received here for discussion because there were many many squads I want to cover and I want to cover them before worlds.

Lets start with Sable's squad.

My Thoughts:

The good:

Tankalicious. This will be a MOV monster. Serious candidate to see top 16 in any flight.

The Bad:

I would prefer Hull over stealth. If there were a way to get engine on Chewbacca I'd like that as well, heck i might prefer it over stealth/hull in Gemmer and Falcon title. Additionally this is lacking a little firepower in only 3 ships, especially with one being an A wing.

Your thoughts?

There's a lot that I like about this squad, but at the same time I think it has a lot of faults too. 3 ship builds already suffer from low damage output, but when you add in a A-Wing too, it goes way down. While all these ships are taking they all suffer from the same problem of concentrated fire. Tarn can do well against a single attack, but if multiple ships have him in arc, he drops fast. I'm not sure he can last long enough to pull his weight. Gemmer is weak vs HLC which many lists are bringing these days.

I love Chewie, but named Phantoms have his number unless you have some way to boost his PS. While I think this is a fun build, It will have a uphill battle at worlds.

I will be posting the other squads we received here for discussion because there were many many squads I want to cover and I want to cover them before worlds.

Lets start with Sable's squad.

My Thoughts:

The good:

Tankalicious. This will be a MOV monster. Serious candidate to see top 16 in any flight.

The Bad:

I would prefer Hull over stealth. If there were a way to get engine on Chewbacca I'd like that as well, heck i might prefer it over stealth/hull in Gemmer and Falcon title. Additionally this is lacking a little firepower in only 3 ships, especially with one being an A wing.

Your thoughts?

There's a lot that I like about this squad, but at the same time I think it has a lot of faults too. 3 ship builds already suffer from low damage output, but when you add in a A-Wing too, it goes way down. While all these ships are taking they all suffer from the same problem of concentrated fire. Tarn can do well against a single attack, but if multiple ships have him in arc, he drops fast. I'm not sure he can last long enough to pull his weight. Gemmer is weak vs HLC which many lists are bringing these days.

I love Chewie, but named Phantoms have his number unless you have some way to boost his PS. While I think this is a fun build, It will have a uphill battle at worlds.

I agree. Putting more than 20 points into a ship with 2 attack dice base, even though it's a very defensive ship. It's a reason I think we won't see as much of a resurgence in A-Wings as some think because the meta has changed to make two attack dice a very limiting squad for that many points without bringing anything else offensive to the table (outmaneuver on Jake, ion control in a Y-Wing).

Beyond that, I don't think the list has offense enough to be MoV monster, especially as I think Chewie is going to be very predictable here. Fun and certainly frustrating list to play well.

Related, sort of, but how important will MoV be at Worlds? Isn't it go undefeated or get just one loss and you're in with maybe an exception or two (for which MoV will be very important), but overall there's not going to be a huge need for tiebreakers is there?

I will be posting the other squads we received here for discussion because there were many many squads I want to cover and I want to cover them before worlds.

Lets start with Sable's squad.

My Thoughts:

The good:

Tankalicious. This will be a MOV monster. Serious candidate to see top 16 in any flight.

The Bad:

I would prefer Hull over stealth. If there were a way to get engine on Chewbacca I'd like that as well, heck i might prefer it over stealth/hull in Gemmer and Falcon title. Additionally this is lacking a little firepower in only 3 ships, especially with one being an A wing.

Your thoughts?

There's a lot that I like about this squad, but at the same time I think it has a lot of faults too. 3 ship builds already suffer from low damage output, but when you add in a A-Wing too, it goes way down. While all these ships are taking they all suffer from the same problem of concentrated fire. Tarn can do well against a single attack, but if multiple ships have him in arc, he drops fast. I'm not sure he can last long enough to pull his weight. Gemmer is weak vs HLC which many lists are bringing these days.

I love Chewie, but named Phantoms have his number unless you have some way to boost his PS. While I think this is a fun build, It will have a uphill battle at worlds.

I agree. Putting more than 20 points into a ship with 2 attack dice base, even though it's a very defensive ship. It's a reason I think we won't see as much of a resurgence in A-Wings as some think because the meta has changed to make two attack dice a very limiting squad for that many points without bringing anything else offensive to the table (outmaneuver on Jake, ion control in a Y-Wing).

Beyond that, I don't think the list has offense enough to be MoV monster, especially as I think Chewie is going to be very predictable here. Fun and certainly frustrating list to play well.

Related, sort of, but how important will MoV be at Worlds? Isn't it go undefeated or get just one loss and you're in with maybe an exception or two (for which MoV will be very important), but overall there's not going to be a huge need for tiebreakers is there?

I think MoV will be felt the most in regards to the types of lists you play. The lists with higher MOV will be the lists that have fewers ships as they will more likely have kept them alive to win. Swarms will typically have lower MOV due to having more ships dying.

I will be posting the other squads we received here for discussion because there were many many squads I want to cover and I want to cover them before worlds.

Lets start with Sable's squad.

My Thoughts:

The good:

Tankalicious. This will be a MOV monster. Serious candidate to see top 16 in any flight.

The Bad:

I would prefer Hull over stealth. If there were a way to get engine on Chewbacca I'd like that as well, heck i might prefer it over stealth/hull in Gemmer and Falcon title. Additionally this is lacking a little firepower in only 3 ships, especially with one being an A wing.

Your thoughts?

There's a lot that I like about this squad, but at the same time I think it has a lot of faults too. 3 ship builds already suffer from low damage output, but when you add in a A-Wing too, it goes way down. While all these ships are taking they all suffer from the same problem of concentrated fire. Tarn can do well against a single attack, but if multiple ships have him in arc, he drops fast. I'm not sure he can last long enough to pull his weight. Gemmer is weak vs HLC which many lists are bringing these days.

I love Chewie, but named Phantoms have his number unless you have some way to boost his PS. While I think this is a fun build, It will have a uphill battle at worlds.

I agree. Putting more than 20 points into a ship with 2 attack dice base, even though it's a very defensive ship. It's a reason I think we won't see as much of a resurgence in A-Wings as some think because the meta has changed to make two attack dice a very limiting squad for that many points without bringing anything else offensive to the table (outmaneuver on Jake, ion control in a Y-Wing).

Beyond that, I don't think the list has offense enough to be MoV monster, especially as I think Chewie is going to be very predictable here. Fun and certainly frustrating list to play well.

Related, sort of, but how important will MoV be at Worlds? Isn't it go undefeated or get just one loss and you're in with maybe an exception or two (for which MoV will be very important), but overall there's not going to be a huge need for tiebreakers is there?

I think MoV will be felt the most in regards to the types of lists you play. The lists with higher MOV will be the lists that have fewers ships as they will more likely have kept them alive to win. Swarms will typically have lower MOV due to having more ships dying.

Sure, but will MoV matter with just sixteen players from a flight getting in out of 128? I guess it could for seeding purposes, but I thought you guys mentioned that only one player with a 4-2 record (maybe) would get in. Hence, building a squad for MoV isn't as big of a deal if I'm understanding correctly...

I will be posting the other squads we received here for discussion because there were many many squads I want to cover and I want to cover them before worlds.

Lets start with Sable's squad.

My Thoughts:

The good:

Tankalicious. This will be a MOV monster. Serious candidate to see top 16 in any flight.

The Bad:

I would prefer Hull over stealth. If there were a way to get engine on Chewbacca I'd like that as well, heck i might prefer it over stealth/hull in Gemmer and Falcon title. Additionally this is lacking a little firepower in only 3 ships, especially with one being an A wing.

Your thoughts?

There's a lot that I like about this squad, but at the same time I think it has a lot of faults too. 3 ship builds already suffer from low damage output, but when you add in a A-Wing too, it goes way down. While all these ships are taking they all suffer from the same problem of concentrated fire. Tarn can do well against a single attack, but if multiple ships have him in arc, he drops fast. I'm not sure he can last long enough to pull his weight. Gemmer is weak vs HLC which many lists are bringing these days.

I love Chewie, but named Phantoms have his number unless you have some way to boost his PS. While I think this is a fun build, It will have a uphill battle at worlds.

I agree. Putting more than 20 points into a ship with 2 attack dice base, even though it's a very defensive ship. It's a reason I think we won't see as much of a resurgence in A-Wings as some think because the meta has changed to make two attack dice a very limiting squad for that many points without bringing anything else offensive to the table (outmaneuver on Jake, ion control in a Y-Wing).

Beyond that, I don't think the list has offense enough to be MoV monster, especially as I think Chewie is going to be very predictable here. Fun and certainly frustrating list to play well.

Related, sort of, but how important will MoV be at Worlds? Isn't it go undefeated or get just one loss and you're in with maybe an exception or two (for which MoV will be very important), but overall there's not going to be a huge need for tiebreakers is there?

I think MoV will be felt the most in regards to the types of lists you play. The lists with higher MOV will be the lists that have fewers ships as they will more likely have kept them alive to win. Swarms will typically have lower MOV due to having more ships dying.

Sure, but will MoV matter with just sixteen players from a flight getting in out of 128? I guess it could for seeding purposes, but I thought you guys mentioned that only one player with a 4-2 record (maybe) would get in. Hence, building a squad for MoV isn't as big of a deal if I'm understanding correctly...

Agreed. It will mostly come into play in the types of lists you will face more than the tiebreakers at the end of the day.

Thanks guys for reviewing the Body Massage list. Vess is really good at de-stressing those space heifers.

A word of warning though:

Although I think it has a lot of potential, it's a list that needs a lot practice. Don't just plunk it down at Worlds, even if you have experience flying naked cows. It really rewards the player for thinking a move or two ahead, due to wingman being range 1 and clearing stress in the turn before your planned "unstressed movement". It equally punishes you very badly for not planning that move or two ahead.

That said, "Who wants a body massage?"

Thanks guys for reviewing the Body Massage list. Vess is really good at de-stressing those space heifers.

A word of warning though:

Although I think it has a lot of potential, it's a list that needs a lot practice. Don't just plunk it down at Worlds, even if you have experience flying naked cows. It really rewards the player for thinking a move or two ahead, due to wingman being range 1 and clearing stress in the turn before your planned "unstressed movement". It equally punishes you very badly for not planning that move or two ahead.

That said, "Who wants a body massage?"

It's an excellent list. I'd like to play it a few times. I have some experience with Black squad ties and wingman but I think I would need practice with vessery.

Listening now and liking the asteroid placement discussion vs. Fat Han.

Thanks guys for reviewing the Body Massage list. Vess is really good at de-stressing those space heifers.

A word of warning though:

Although I think it has a lot of potential, it's a list that needs a lot practice. Don't just plunk it down at Worlds, even if you have experience flying naked cows. It really rewards the player for thinking a move or two ahead, due to wingman being range 1 and clearing stress in the turn before your planned "unstressed movement". It equally punishes you very badly for not planning that move or two ahead.

That said, "Who wants a body massage?"

One of the things I didn't get to with Vessery and wingman, is the white k-turn. He can keep a shuttle stalled and protect it's flank in very interesting ways. Usually when I run shuttles + a wingman I want advanced sensors on the cows, but in this case there's no points for that. This build defiantly suffers some from lose of actions and requires a lot of thought to make work.

Listening now and liking the asteroid placement discussion vs. Fat Han.

Jeff has written a lot about asteroid placement. If you like what he had to say on the cast you may want to read this post. He has a lot of good fundamental idea's around asteroid placement.

Thanks guys for reviewing the Body Massage list. Vess is really good at de-stressing those space heifers.

A word of warning though:

Although I think it has a lot of potential, it's a list that needs a lot practice. Don't just plunk it down at Worlds, even if you have experience flying naked cows. It really rewards the player for thinking a move or two ahead, due to wingman being range 1 and clearing stress in the turn before your planned "unstressed movement". It equally punishes you very badly for not planning that move or two ahead.

That said, "Who wants a body massage?"

One of the things I didn't get to with Vessery and wingman, is the white k-turn. He can keep a shuttle stalled and protect it's flank in very interesting ways. Usually when I run shuttles + a wingman I want advanced sensors on the cows, but in this case there's no points for that. This build defiantly suffers some from lose of actions and requires a lot of thought to make work.

It's so odd that some of these ideas seem to come together at the same time. I just ran a list for the first time a few days ago on Vassal that had two extra points. I threw Wingman on Vessery because I was also running a shuttle. I thought this was a completely original idea. Then I noticed my TCO opponent has a Wingman on a ship with shuttle and I've seen it pop up multiple times since then. Maybe I just wasn't looking hard enough.

BTW, great podcast as always gentlemen. My only complaint is that now I am paranoid and am playing around with my lists to make sure I have answers for all the lists you guys came up with and talked about!

Thanks guys for reviewing the Body Massage list. Vess is really good at de-stressing those space heifers.

A word of warning though:

Although I think it has a lot of potential, it's a list that needs a lot practice. Don't just plunk it down at Worlds, even if you have experience flying naked cows. It really rewards the player for thinking a move or two ahead, due to wingman being range 1 and clearing stress in the turn before your planned "unstressed movement". It equally punishes you very badly for not planning that move or two ahead.

That said, "Who wants a body massage?"

One of the things I didn't get to with Vessery and wingman, is the white k-turn. He can keep a shuttle stalled and protect it's flank in very interesting ways. Usually when I run shuttles + a wingman I want advanced sensors on the cows, but in this case there's no points for that. This build defiantly suffers some from lose of actions and requires a lot of thought to make work.

I think that's one of the reasons the hippo ballet fairs well. It always either has Vader Crew or FCS to fall back on. This however has a much more durable ship to go along with the Cows.

Theorist suggested this as the next list to cover. I'm not sure how I could argue against him.

Submitted by lordvogl on TC

99pts
44 Horton Salm + R2D6 + VI + Ion + Proton + Proton + engine

25 Tarn Mison + R7

15 Prototype + Chardaan

15 Prototype + Chardaan

My Thoughts:

The Good:

It's like Lordvogl stole this from my mind. My favorite things mixed with my favorite things. Horton does well vs Phantom and surprisingly well vs Falcon. Tarn presents a solid endgame ship and A -wings are excellent blockers and tanks.

The Bad:

The Great Mustachio is flying without a net in this list. You will need to aggressively fly A wings to provoke shots. Luckily that's what they're good for. Still a good thing to keep in mind. Biggs (possibly with R4-D6) may be better to escort Horton to end game.

Horton is a boss ship but he has more in common with an interceptor than a normal Y wing because of his expense. Fly him to avoid shots and use Ion Cannon and engine to control the map. Proton for maximum effect, not just because you feel you have to to get rid of them before he dies. The goal is Horton end game vs a small ship or two.

I love your analysis of Howlrunner. That's how I've felt since Wave 1, but everyone always takes her. I learned you just spend a lot of points for a ship that dies fast.

I love your analysis of Howlrunner. That's how I've felt since Wave 1, but everyone always takes her. I learned you just spend a lot of points for a ship that dies fast.

Howl CAN be good... but she gets burnt down so fast that it's usually not worth it. I think there's a calculation of how many shots she has to make a hit for her to be worth it. Where's MajorJuggler or VorpalSword when we need them?

Either way even if things go perfectly for her I think Backstabber steals the show efficiency wise.

I love your analysis of Howlrunner. That's how I've felt since Wave 1, but everyone always takes her. I learned you just spend a lot of points for a ship that dies fast.

Howl CAN be good... but she gets burnt down so fast that it's usually not worth it. I think there's a calculation of how many shots she has to make a hit for her to be worth it. Where's MajorJuggler or VorpalSword when we need them?

Either way even if things go perfectly for her I think Backstabber steals the show efficiency wise.

The answer is 42.