My BC group at a local RP club....changed when one GM has to take a break from GM'ing and the groups we had rearranged themselves to accomedate this. I lost 2 apostates and 2 renegades, I got 2 psykers and 1 sorcerer so that's something. Problem is: most of them are new to the system and when i introduce them to the gods the psykers say nurgle, slaanesh etc but when they get the rules portion everyone picks Tzeetch, how on earth can I get some varierty into the mix?

I really want to see something other then 3 psykers and 1 sorcerer all worshipping tzeetch (i had 1 psyker from before). How can i make my players want to worship any of the others? I'm begging you! I need help.

Why would you want variety? If they're all Tzeetch they'll all be wondering where the next betrayal will come from, be playing the long game.

You can't make your players do anything really. You might have them fight psykers of other alignments to show off what they're capable of.

Because diversity is the spice of life!

More or less everyone is already afraid of when the next phenomena will make them fall upwards or make chaos ghosts reappear. As i said, they're new so if they'll betray eachother we'll just have to see.

Make was the wrong word, granted. How can I make the other gods more enticing to them? I'm not going to force them, but having a bit diversity is always good.

I'll defineatly see about making some psykers, thanks for the tip!

Congratulations, you've just found out BC has piss poor balance.

How to fix:

Switch to the aptitude system. Make your own chaos fluff.

Again put them up against enemies that are differently aligned, maybe a few npcs (NOT DMPCs) that they might work with where you can show it off, but if they want to stick with the ever changing one then let them.

They're new, they'll go with stereotypes.

Show them how ridiculously easily a Nurgle psyker can kill or debuff targets by dealing 1d10R Crit damage. Or the really powerful Exalted spells that only Unaligned Psykers can get. Or perhaps the way a Slaaneshi Psyker can buff themselves to ridiculous levels to become a combat monster.

Really, just because Tzeentch has Bolt of Change doesn't mean it's the only one worth having.

Again put them up against enemies that are differently aligned, maybe a few npcs (NOT DMPCs) that they might work with where you can show it off, but if they want to stick with the ever changing one then let them.

They're new, they'll go with stereotypes.

The thing is, I talk about the game, the gods. Psyker goes "NURGLE!" other guy goes "slaanesh!" two seconds into the book and they're tzeetch, because as deathbygrotz kinda mentions, the rules at the beginning heavily favours them. I don't really had the same problems with renegades, they felt like an open book but so far it seems psykers have A god they follow and thus the players follow.

I have no intent to make GMPC's. I find them boring, horrible to gameplay and if I can't see my players have fun then i don't have fun. I do try to make awesome characters though, so I'll look into making a few who emphasise the god they worship.

Well Tzeetch is generally held as the god of psykers, one god actively hates psykers.

Well if the rules favor Tzeentch, why not give your pc some advantages if they pick Slaanesh or Nurgle instead?, maybe some bonus XP to spend on psychic powers?

Thank you for choosing papa Nurgle as your provider for psychic power. Have a free reward of Nurgle !

Papa Nurgle: Sticking it to Tzeentch since 1990.

Papa does provide.

From what I can tell, the biggest hurdle is that these are new players. They also only seem to concerned with mechanics rather than narrative fluff. While I'm for giving rewards (bribing) the players to pick other gods, that might send the wrong message. Have you shared your desire for diversity with them? If so, how did they respond?

Out of curiousity, how samey are these PCs? I hope they're not all cut from the same cloth with the same gear and talents and whatnot. Personally, I would urge my players to cover as many distinct niches as possible so each individual has a chance to shine.

Heavily Tzeentch-Aligned group you say? Sounds like troll bait

in all seriousness though, that really does sound like it should be a veritable beacon for slaaneshi psykers looking to spread the dark prince's lovely delights (Watch what I can do.....)

It also sounds like the sort of thing Nurgly pyskers would be all over like flies on.....well, nurgle (You can't fight the inevitable/why fight it? join us)

Where Slaanesh really gets gamebreakingly OP is around 50+ Infamy, when you start getting minions that, RAW, can RIPTEARKILL pretty much anything. Add psyker-buffs to that and you have a ridiculously powerful team. Tzeench can get similarly strong as well, but both Nurgle and Khorne simply cannot keep up, especially Nurgle.

If you want people to play Nurgle, you need to toss the rules out the window, toss the tome of decay out the window and have a long, hard look at Tome of Corruption instead.

My party has a Nurgle Psyker with Terminator Armour. He is ridiculously tough, and can deal either series debuffs or death to single targets, or create crowd control with widespread mayhem, all the while healing with his Undead Heart. I have no idea what the fuss is about Nurgle not being able to keep up.

Where Slaanesh really gets gamebreakingly OP is around 50+ Infamy, when you start getting minions that, RAW, can RIPTEARKILL pretty much anything. Add psyker-buffs to that and you have a ridiculously powerful team. Tzeench can get similarly strong as well, but both Nurgle and Khorne simply cannot keep up, especially Nurgle.

If you want people to play Nurgle, you need to toss the rules out the window, toss the tome of decay out the window and have a long, hard look at Tome of Corruption instead.

Tome of Corruption? Did you mean Hand of Corruption, the Adventure?

I have all 4 supplements, and Hand of Corruption, is it any good? I haven't had time to read over all of it, just gotten a good initial impression/overview.

Anyway, sad to see that nurgle and khorne can't keep pace, I doubt the khorne renegade we have will care and if they get on my nerves I'll introduce them to null rods and nulls.

It just didn't sound that great when all of them went from "i want to play that! OR THIS!" and then: I'll go with the cardboard version thank you.

Where Slaanesh really gets gamebreakingly OP is around 50+ Infamy, when you start getting minions that, RAW, can RIPTEARKILL pretty much anything. Add psyker-buffs to that and you have a ridiculously powerful team. Tzeench can get similarly strong as well, but both Nurgle and Khorne simply cannot keep up, especially Nurgle.

If you want people to play Nurgle, you need to toss the rules out the window, toss the tome of decay out the window and have a long, hard look at Tome of Corruption instead.

Tome of Corruption? Did you mean Hand of Corruption, the Adventure?

No, I mean tome of Corruption from WHFRP2. The aligned mutation tables are d100 and can be easily used with infamy. They're also mostly balanced and have good stuff for each god. Furthermore, the reward mechanic provides some nice incentive as well (and is also...d100). Chaos weapons and armour are a nice touch, too.

I have all 4 supplements, and Hand of Corruption, is it any good? I haven't had time to read over all of it, just gotten a good initial impression/overview.

Anyway, sad to see that nurgle and khorne can't keep pace, I doubt the khorne renegade we have will care and if they get on my nerves I'll introduce them to null rods and nulls.

It just didn't sound that great when all of them went from "i want to play that! OR THIS!" and then: I'll go with the cardboard version thank you.

Honestly though, it's all in what you want to play. A Khorne Renegade can easily tear tanks in half with the right gear and Talents, and a Nurgle Renegade can become nigh-unkillable due to abnormally high Toughness and the cheapest Sound Constitution known to man.

What kinda irks me with Black Crusade advancement is that it punishes what should be completely reasonable concepts. It aligns a Khornite Assassin with Slaanesh, it makes a dedicated Nurgle Sorcerer into a Tzeentchite, and forget about making a Tzeentchite Renegade.

Alignment should probably have been covered in some other fashion, such as measuring lost & gained Infamy and assigning it to Gods based on dedication or whatever was done, or Corruption. Or something to that effect.

Basing it solely on Advancement of Talents & Skills was probably a poor choice. Take Command, for example. Command is - unless I'm mistaken - aligned with Khorne. That means that Slaaneshi pays a premium for it. For Command. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I wouldn't mind tweaking the system, and if it was an experienced group I would tweak and houserule it alot Fgdsg, but with a new group I want to ease them into the rules before messing with them (the rules). I'll have to look into this some more and hopefully we'll arrive at something where people can make the character they imagine in their head and still actually be "viable" as such exists in a roleplay setting.

If you're going open framework, I'd say go for an OW-style aptitude scheme for advances, and base alignment on actions that cause Infamy/Corruption gain, much as Fgdsfg suggests.

Alignment is (or should be) expressed by actions and roleplay . Not "I want to be at x which defaults to making me bad at y and z" - alignment should maybe be a prereq for certain elite advances/alt ranks/alt specializations that are Alignment specific, and for Alignment-specific powers - and perhaps for the ability to utilize certain daemonic items (ie, if there's a Khornate daemon in a weapon, it's probably not going to want to cooperate with a Tzeentchian and/or a psyker, or a Tzeentchian daemon is not likely to reveal itself/its capabilities to a Khornate).

Javcs, like i said, new players I don't want to start out by houseruling everything. I play Only War, but I don't own the book and I'm not keen on introducing even new stuff.

I agree, actions and roleplay should determine roleplay, and the aptitude system would allow for that. I do expect my players to roleplay, not according to their god but by their characters and the gods will judge them accordingly.

Thing is, demons are FORCED into weapons, armor and vehicles. They despise the notion and only kind of like it when you actually use them for something they'd do on their own if free. Like a khorne weapon being used to kill. A khorn demon wouldn't be khorne if he stopped a tzeeetch psyker from spilling blood with it, khorne doesn't care how as long as the blood flows.

I think I'll introduce alot of npc's (not GMPCs) who will either become benefactors or antagonists based on who they align to and how they roleplay and see how it goes. If I encounter problems or I notice that I now have 3 tzeetch psykers and 1 tzeeetch sorcerer then so be it. We'll simply have to see how long it takes for one of them to blow up (they like pushing...) Or I'll come back and ask for more help.

When I first started I went the same route with my sorcerer. I wasn't sure about which got to hose ND had in faced opted to stay unaligned. But as I read the rules, Tzeentch started looking good because of all the discounts. I fell out of it when I grabbed the Tome of Fate. The Exalted spells are monstrous. I personally would just let them review the material,try suggesting a force weapon approach for the sorcer to act as a tank or pure damage, this could motivate him to either a Slaaneshi train of thought or Papa Nurgle. That could help get the ball moving

If all else fails, play Hand of Corruption with them, it's a relatively straight forward campaign for beginners. It will help them realize what they are lacking as a party. Be sure to put either null rods or other psykers in the mix too. You might have to painfully drag through the whole campaign but it's sure to help them change their methods. Of course you know the goal is to have fun so if they all remain Tzeentchian, roll with it, start introducing back stabbing options, opportunities for infamy or rewards.

For giggles through a Bloodthirster in their way when they are strong enough. Allow Khorne to teach them the error of their ways. Even mighty and terrible Psykers need help every now and then.

*which God to choose and had in fact opted to*

*for giggles throw a*

Lol sorry on my phone. Auto correct is amazingly efficient.

I took away the sorcerer starting with a force sword, mostly because the rest of the party are humans and although he's not a strong a psyker as...the psykers, he's much more "stable" and has all the benefits a space marine starts with. He could crush most in hand to hand combat with any given weapon and has legion weapons which are superior to regular ones. Having him completely outclass them in melee, simply due to weapon on top of it would make the khornate renegade cry...blood of course.

The problem has solved itself, somewhat. It seems all of them have decided to go a bit tzeetch at first, in order to boost themselves as psykers and then branch out to the various gods they really want. A bit of an annoyance, but at least i'll end up with a diverse group.

I am going to throw hand of corruption at them, is it any good? I've started reading and so far it looks good, just need to learn it better as I prefer having a good overview and know the basics by heart and then let the players wreck the place.

I am going to throw hand of corruption at them, is it any good? I've started reading and so far it looks good, just need to learn it better as I prefer having a good overview and know the basics by heart and then let the players wreck the place.

I can only say that I've heard good things as I haven't played it myself.