They are Nurglings, mischievous little blighters!

Nuglings only go off, if they are already at the planet, not when they commit with a warlord.

Turn one, a nurgling is deployed to planet 2. No body moves there no interrupt.

Turn two, chaos warlord and a nurgling, and oppisition warlord and two units commit to this planet. The nurgling (1) already there goes off, damaging my chaos warlord and my nurgling (2) and my oppisitions warlord and his two units, the nurgling committing to the planet doesn't go off.

The only way this nurglings reaction can go off again is if in turn three the warlord commits and brings the nurglings to none 1st planet and leaves them there for a future turn for warlords to commit two.

Am I wrong on this? The interrupt says "After a unit moves to this planet, deal it 1 damage" so a nurgling currently moving to a planet isn't there before commitment, it only affects units that move there after.

IF in commitment the first player decides who is there first, then a nurgling could go off on all "following units" not units already there.

I think playing this in game action it will be self evident who gets damaged.

Wait I think I got this.

I have a nurgling at planet 2 (N1)

I have a warlord and nurgling (N2) at HQ, my oppenent's warlord and 2 units at HQ

We both commit to planet 2.

If my oppenent has initiative, he moves his 3 units taking one damage each from N1. Then i move N2 to the planet taking 1 damage and my warlord moves last taking 2 damage.

If I have initiative, I move my warlord then N2 taking one damage each, then my opponents 3 units move taking 2 damage each.

Nuglings only go off, if they are already at the planet, not when they commit with a warlord.

Am I wrong on this? The interrupt says "After a unit moves to this planet, deal it 1 damage" so a nurgling currently moving to a planet isn't there before commitment, it only affects units that move there after.

Note that it's a Forced Reaction, not an Interrupt.

Further, because the "triggering condition" for the forced reaction is checked after the "commit" step is completely resolved (and the units from HQ fully arrived and present at the planet), the Nurgling does not need to be at the planet before the commitment in order for its ability to apply. If it moves to the planet during the "commit" step, the reaction is there, ready to be used because of the commit.

Think of Starbane, exhausting units at the planet he arrives at even though he wasn't at the planet when the moving started. It's no different for Nurglings that move from HQ.

ktom,

Thus, if a Player has initiative, you (as said Player) are at an 'advantage' of sorts, as you are able to move onto a given planet before a KN arrives, which will alleviate damage to your forces....

(which is the way that I originally read it, before I got immersed in and lost when other situational factors came into play; movement, committing, moving, etc)

Thus, if a Player has initiative, you (as said Player) are at an 'advantage' of sorts, as you are able to move onto a given planet before a KN arrives, which will alleviate damage to your forces....

Hmm. Either I'm not understanding your point properly, or this statement is incorrect. According to the RRG, p. 20, and it's description in the flowchart for the Command Phase:

"2.4 Each player simultaneously commits his warlord and all units in his HQ to the planet that corresponds with the number revealed on his dial."

Given that the other steps for Command, i.e. setting the dials and revealing the dials, are also done by the players "simultaneously," I read this as all units belonging to all players are moved to their destination planets at the same time . So it's not like the units controlled by the player with initiative move to their planets while the units controlled by the other player are still sitting at HQ. It doesn't matter who has initiative - if the unit moved from HQ during the Command Phase, it will potentially be hit by a Nurgling that moved from an enemy's HQ to the same planet in the same Command Phase.

The advantage held by the player with initiative is that it is possible for a Nurgling that moves from HQ to kill itself. Depending on the amount of damage on the Nurgling already, the player with initiative can effectively choose the order of triggering the Forced Reactions so that the moving Nurgling hits the units he wants to damage, then kill itself before getting a chance to hit the units he wants to protect.

ktom, you are right.

I keep forgetting that movement is simultaneously..... let me think about this some more....

yeah,

The advantage held by the player with initiative is that it is possible for a Nurgling that moves from HQ to kill itself. Depending on the amount of damage on the Nurgling already, the player with initiative can effectively choose the order of triggering the Forced Reactions so that the moving Nurgling hits the units he wants to damage, then kill itself before getting a chance to hit the units he wants to protect.

This is magnified horribly when there is more than 1 Nurgling is involved.
(quite possible with it being a x4 signature card and the number of ways that cards can be moved.)
All the nurglings can do all their damage on one side of the board (directed by the player with inititive) Before killing themselves.

It feels like rules lawyering against the flavour of the card.

This card needs saving!! It should be amazing!
Look at how much confusion it's caused and it's not even released yet!?I
I'm still struggling to how FFG expects us to understand the workings of this card?

I don't even think it works as it should!

FFG please change this cards text if not yet printed, currently shows as at the printers
I have high hopes for Ku'Gath! but this card IMO ruins his chances of being a great warlord.

... or issue Errata if already printed / on the boat.

Panic...

The cards won't be changed now; that would be a logistical nightmare.

Also, don't forget that these cards have already been through the playtesting cycle and deemed working as intended, or they wouldn't have got to this stage.

The possibility of them hurting their controller more than their controller's enemy is clearly intended. Without this drawback they'd be far far too powerful. Even with the drawback, in the hands of a tactically minded player they are going to be a very dangerous command squad to play against - especially for anyone whose deck strategy relies heavily on token swarming and/or mobile. Getting more than a single use out of a lot of ranged units is going be made a lot trickier as well.

So yes, they're bad when they're in your HQ and awful when there's more than one of them and it's going to be your opponents turn to have initiative in the next round but they're absolutely amazing as a control card to deny your opponent the chance to set up his HQ army at a later planet and for discouraging mobile units generally. And if you're deploying only one per planet and then only to planets further down the line there's a good chance of ensuring a) only one of them at time returning to HQ or b) that they die or are at least carrying one damage (depending on whether or not you'll have initiative in the next round) before there's any issue of them returning to HQ. Ku'Gath Plaguefather himself will allow you to pull that off quite easily and if you bring along an Ork Kannon or two as back up it's a dead cert.

So yes, they're bad when they're in your HQ and awful when there's more than one of them and it's going to be your opponents turn to have initiative in the next round but they're absolutely amazing as a control card to deny your opponent the chance to set up his HQ army at a later planet and for discouraging mobile units generally.

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this."

"Then don't do that."

yeah,
With a player base unsure/unhappy with how his card works it would be disappointing if FFG do nothing.

Panic...

Just never send them to your HQ, yeah?

If you win the first planet all your (surviving) units go to the HQ, and then the darn nurglings get sent alongside your warlord whenever he goes to a new planet next turn.

FF nailed the way nurglins are in the fluff: horrible anoying pests that will eff up and ruin anything that they come into contact with and drive mortals to madness and despair... That's this card all right!

So yes, they're bad when they're in your HQ and awful when there's more than one of them and it's going to be your opponents turn to have initiative in the next round but they're absolutely amazing as a control card to deny your opponent the chance to set up his HQ army at a later planet and for discouraging mobile units generally.

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this."

"Then don't do that."

But I HAVE to breathe, doctor...

So I have a question.. when you deploy your cards from your hand does that count as a move..?.. the rules reference on in/out of play states.

“Out of play” refers to the cards in a player’s hand, his deck, his discard pile, facedown planets, and those in a victory display.

A card enters play when it moves from an out of play origin to a play area.

No. Deployment does not count as "moving" a card anywhere.

The definition of "Move" on p.10 of the RRG states, "Some effects allow players to move game elements, such as damage, cards, or tokens."

Since "move" is defined in terms of effects allowing players to move something, in order for something to be considered "moved" in game terms, an effect has to use the word "move" in relation to the game element that changes position. The detailed descriptions of how to deploy cards on p. 23 of the RRG do not use the word "move." They instead describe the card as being "placed" in certain areas on the table. So no, Deployment does not count as "moving." Neither does "routing" or "retreating," for that matter.

The descriptions of when a card enters or leaves play are not game effects, so their use of the word "move" does not create actionable game opportunities based on movement.

It's just one of those realities associated with open-architecture games like Conquest: just because a game element is transferred from one place or position to another (i.e., the literal definition of the word "move") does not mean it has "moved" in a way that is actionable within the game's terminology or template. It's similar to the way that even if an effect has a specific object that it affects (i.e., the literal definition of the word "target"), that object is only considered a "target" within the game's terminology and template if the word "target" was used by the effect.

No, no, no.

Reactions are checked WHEN the condition/trigger event occurs. Moving to "this planet" is the trigger, if there is no "this planet" when the move happens there is no chance to trigger the reaction. All reactions occur after the event, but the event itself is the trigger.

What the hell are the people who answered these questions smoking? Their "clarifications" are making a train wreck out of what should be a straightforward interaction. Are there Nurglings present on the planet? If so, then anything moving there takes a damage. If not, then not. All the move/don't move/initiative BS is just causing problems where there didn't need to be any, and if this continues as new cards come out the game is going to devolve into a chaotic train wreck.

So let me get this straight. My KN is on Planum, and I have an KN in my HQ. I move to Planum. My warlord and the KN who are moving take 1 damage each from the KN that is already there, because they moved to "this planet". Then, I check for reactions again? So "this planet" is now retroactively Planum for the second KN as well. Does the damage from the first KN go off "first" since it was already at the planet? Do I consistently go back and check for conditions that occurred before my trigger, if so how far do I go? Can I deploy a KN through some other effect, and then deal a damage to every unit that did not arrive at that planet via Deployment, because "after they move" is a trigger effect that apparently takes effect at any point, not just at the moment the move is made?

Let's say my opponent committed his warlord and 4 other guys to third planet last turn. If I deploy my KN to that planet now, can I then trigger the "after they move" trigger in order to damage all of them? Because if the move itself initiates the trigger it is far too late, but if "after they move" is the trigger we are still firmly in the window of opportunity. I could execute giant swathes of my opponents forces if "after they move" is a trigger, not the move itself.

But if we want to make KN hit itself, is that only because we did it "right away"? How right away is good enough? The thing wasn't at the planet when the move was made, so it clearly can't be the move itself that set them off, we are left with "after the move" as the trigger in which case WHEN DOES IT END ? It will ALWAYS be "after the move", there is literally no end point for that trigger!

Yuck.

Wait I think I got this.

I have a nurgling at planet 2 (N1)

I have a warlord and nurgling (N2) at HQ, my oppenent's warlord and 2 units at HQ

We both commit to planet 2.

If my oppenent has initiative, he moves his 3 units taking one damage each from N1. Then i move N2 to the planet taking 1 damage and my warlord moves last taking 2 damage.

If I have initiative, I move my warlord then N2 taking one damage each, then my opponents 3 units move taking 2 damage each.

While I understand your reasoning here, I don't think this is what has been 'agreed' upon by several posters on this thread....

Am continuing to be confused.

Another example:

Ragnar Blackmane commits to Planum, where the Eldar have one unit, and Eldorath Starbane commits to Barlus where the Marines have one unit. It starts off well, Eldorath triggers and the SM unit is exhausted, Ragnar does nothing because there is no warlord present. Then, the Eldar play "Foresight" as a reaction, and commit Eldorath to Planum where Ragnar sits. It seems clear that what is supposed to happen is that Eldorath will trigger a second time, exhausting a marine unit, and then we will head on to combat.

But what happens if we use the logic put forward for the KN, is as follows:

Ragnar and Eldorath commit, a unit is exhausted on Barlus. Foresight is played, and Eldorath moves to Planum. Now, BOTH Warlord abilities go off, despite the fact that there was no Warlord present on Planum when Ragnar committed there.

Again, it's more than a bit of a train wreck if "after X" is a trigger duration, rather than an indication of timing for resolution after a trigger event. For that matter, Ragnars ability is worded pretty badly as well, though "with an enemy warlord" can mean "as well as" due to the vagaries of English so it could still potentially work either way.

Again, it's more than a bit of a train wreck if "after X" is a trigger duration, rather than an indication of timing for resolution after a trigger event.

It's neither. "After X" is a play restriction on the reaction being triggered, and play restrictions are checked at the moment a player tries to trigger the reaction. If the game state changes while a reaction opportunity is open (i.e., before players pass consecutively on the opportunity to play reactions to it), the application of those play restrictions can change, too.

Another way to say this: The resolution of the triggering condition, or any earlier reactions, can make reactions valid that would not have been before the earlier effect's resolution. So yeah, if the Eldar player uses Foresight to move his Warlord to the planet where Blackmane is, the SM player will have the opportunity to use Blackmane's reaction (now that all its play restrictions are met) because the game has not progressed beyond the point of playing reactions to committing warlord during the command phase.

This is why Nurglings that come from HQ count as being "at this planet" - what is "at this planet" is checked when the reaction is triggered, not when the "move" effect initiates and/or resolves.

While I understand your reasoning here, I don't think this is what has been 'agreed' upon by several posters on this thread....

The interaction, as confirmed with FFG, is as follows:

- After the "commit" step resolves and all units complete their move, you trigger all valid "forced reactions."

- As mentioned above, a Nurgling's forced reaction will be valid if it is "at this planet" when the reaction is triggered (within the valid "after a unit moves" reaction opportunity).

- If there are multiple Nurglings, or multiple moved units, all of those Forced Reactions try to trigger at the same time.

- The player with initiative determines the order of forced reactions that try to trigger at the same time.

- Therefore, the player with initiative assigns 1 damage - one at a time - to each unit that moved for each Nurgling that is present.

The caveat here is simply that each damage assigned is a separate effect, and after each effect, the applicability of play restrictions might change. So, for example, if a Nurgling is supposed to trigger 4 times (and damage 4 units), but leaves play between triggers #2 and #3, then it cannot trigger the 3rd and 4th time from its place in the discard pile.

@ktom,

Honestly, don't you think that if you and others have to jump through so many hurdles in order to explain a single card and its effects that there might be something not quite clear about this card? (specifically its affects and its triggering ability)

I'm asking this with upmost candor.

People, you know. They keep making simple things complicated...

People, you know. They keep making simple things complicated...

I don't know is this reply was aimed at my post, but I hope it wasn't.

In all honesty, this card has been quite a pest (pun intended!) since we learned about it. There is this thread and another thread at cardgameddb that are throwing most posters into confusion regarding its overall usage. This level of complication and continuing questions just shouldn't be.