yeah
Do Ku'Gaths Nurglings damage themselves when they deploy to a planet?
Panic...
I'm reading ".. unit moves to this planet" as "this" = the planet, Kugaths nurglings is at.
My take is that only units that move to a planet that already has a Kugaths Nurgings there would take damage.
So I don't think they would damage themselves.
yeah
Do Ku'Gaths Nurglings damage themselves when they deploy to a planet?
Panic...
I'm reading ".. unit moves to this planet" as "this" = the planet, Kugaths nurglings is at.
My take is that only units that move to a planet that already has a Kugaths Nurgings there would take damage.
So I don't think they would damage themselves.
Deploying is not moving is why they would not damage themselves when deployed.
After moving to a planet they would damage themselves. The Reaction happens after they have arrived at the planet and the Reaction is Forced and must be done so they take 1 damage.
ah, ok. Thanks for clearing that up.
After chatting with the design team, I've been given an updated understanding of how Forced Reactions are meant to work, and I've put that together to provide a new rundown on how KN's are meant to work, which makes nearly all the answers above incorrect. Apologies for that, but hopefully this nails it now. Enjoy!
Edited by PBrennan
Guys, this card and its ability is getting me more confused each time I read and try to apply what is being suggested.
And now, after reading what PBrennan posted above, I am somewhat in the realm of belief that this card was not thought of carefully given the low cost and continual damage it might dish out throughout a match.
Specifically this:
Example: If you commit your own units to a planet where a KN already is, each of your moving units will take 1 damage. The forced reaction is mandatory.
Example: If you commit your KN to a planet, that's also considered a move, and it'll deal itself 1 damage, together with 1 damage to each unit that committed to that same planet this turn.
[in my mind, I just don't know how to rectify the second example, as it contradicts deployment, imo, due to my belief that the KN card is not on planet yet (as it is in transit to the planet) yet it is being affected by its own power and giving itself damage before even arriving at the planet...
Apologies for sounding so glum.
Edited by Papa Midnight*snip*
Example: If you commit your KN to a planet, that's also considered a move, and it'll deal itself 1 damage, together with 1 damage to each unit that committed to that same planet this turn.
[in my mind, I just don't know how to rectify the second example, as it contradicts deployment, imo, due to my belief that the KN card is not on planet yet (as it is in transit to the planet) yet it is being affected by its own power and giving itself damage before even arriving at the planet...
Apologies for sounding so glum.
There's no contradiction of the Deployment rules because Deploying to a planet is NOT the same as committing to a planet, which is what the above example is about. When you Deploy, you play the card from hand, and KN will NOT damage itself.
When you Commit, you MOVE from HQ to the Planet with your Warlord. All Commitment is simultaneous, so the arriving KG and anything else that commits to the same planet this turn is triggering the forced reaction.
It sounds like it might be helpful to define "move" as a term that occurs to elements already in play, as opposed to elements entering play from the hand or wherever, but I haven't checked other cards to see if using that definition would cause any other issues.
double post
Edited by Panicyeah,
Ku'gath was the Warlord I was most excited about.
Because of this card ruling I don't think I will ever use him!
If KNs work like this... they are BS!
If the opponent is the player with initiative however, he would likely resolve them in a different order, maybe something like:
- KN#1 deals 1 damage to your warlord
- KN#1 deals 1 damage to your unit#1
- KN#1 deals 1 damage to your unit#2
- KN#2 deals 1 damage to your warlord
- KN#2 deals 1 damage to your unit#1
- KN#2 deals 1 damage to your unit#2
- KN#1 deals 1 damage to KN#2
- KN#2 deals 1 damage to KN#1
- KN#1 deals 1 damage to KN#1
(KN#1 is destroyed, meaning no more of its forced reactions can resolve as it's no longer in play)
- KN#2 deals 1 damage to KN#2
(KN#2 is destroyed, meaning no more of its forced reactions can resolve as it's no longer in play)
This resolution avoids the KNs dealing any damage to the opponent's units, and maximum damage to your units.
The opponent has initiative and can use KNs to damage all your stuff and then kill the KNs...
That can't be how the designers wanted this?
This card needs errata before it's launched!
Maybe something like 'if a unit is moved to a planet KN
is already
at!'
This way it doesn't damage itself and it doesn't trigger when everything moves from the HQs.
or a flat everything gets one damage. no mucking about with stacks and initiative and tricks.
your HQ my HQ everything that's
simultaneously
arrived gets 1 damage.
Done.
Who wants a unit that works for the enemy when he has initiative!
What am I missing? can someone explain how this is a good card / warlord pack?
Panic...
Yeah they really need to write clearer sentences on the card:
"when a unit moves to this planet" Kugaths nurglings isn't a planet, its a unit (duh).
It should have been "Forced reaction: When a unit is deployed at or moves to a planet that has Kugath nurgilngs present; deal that unit one damage."
Edited by Robin Gravesyeah,
...It should have been "Forced reaction: When a unit is deployed at or moves to a planet that has Kugath nurgilngs present; deal that unit one damage."
Bingo!
Panic...
Why add in the trigger for deployment?
So we don't get any unnessasary questions if deployment counts as a move. You know it does, I know it does, but it helps to keep things clear. If it wasn't for things like "mobile", etc. I would just make it deploy and commit.
Better to add a few words to the rules text and loose the flavor text, than create a confusing card, right?
But Deployment does NOT count as movement. That's one of the most consistent things in this whole meandering thread. "Moving" only happens when a card (or other entity) goes from one place in play to another place in play. Deployment isn't movement because the card simply enters play "appearing" at whatever location.
D'OH! ok ok my bad. I tought it was also movement. You are correct.
But still i stand by my triger for deployment. from what I know of the 40k fluff and what i've read from the card , i assume what they are going for is: " Nurglings infect a planet and everybody who shows up there immediatly gets infected. "
So I made it the same for units who get dropped there (deploy) and for those traipsing along with your warlord (commit) or who end up there (move).
Side rant: they should have explained "move/movement" better in the rules reference.
Edited by Robin GravesWell, if they infected everyone when they arrived on the planet, they'd hit themselves as soon as they came into play, effectively having just one HP. That would certainly change things up.
Yeah i was thinking about changing it to "Forced reaction: When a unit without the Nurgle trait is deployed at or moves to a planet that has Kugath nurgilngs present; deal that unit one damage."
This would make it more in line with the fluff (nurgle marines and daemons being immune to disease) and would stop question on if they would damage themselves.
But maybe that might make them a bit to good?
Yeah, might be too good. With FFG clarifying that the player with initiative gets to choose the order of ALL forced reactions, they are clearly meant to be a double-edged sword.
I don't know enough about the fluff to have an opinion about how true-to-source any of this is. But from experience with LCGs in general, it does seem that if the Nurgules couldn't backfire on you, they might have ended up being TOO good....
Yeah,
This initiative thing kills them in my opinion.
If they have one damage already, your opponent can trigger on all your cards and then kill it.
Poop.
Why would you every want two on a planet?
Panic....
I think it's more to force you to very carefully choose where you place them. The player who controls them essentially needs to ensure s/he always has initiative at whatever planet Ku'Gath's Nurglings are or are going to be at.
The harder part is going to be explaining this to an opponent playing them who hasn't read this ruling. That's going to be miserable.
Nah it's not gonna be so bad, because: nobody is gonna play this card . Why would you play a card thats heavily slanted in your oponents favor, and that only works 50% (the initiative thing)? It's just not worth the deckspace.
The harder part is going to be explaining this to an opponent playing them who hasn't read this ruling. That's going to be miserable.
Yeah, this is the reason i wont play with them... which is a shame. :\
See? told you this would happen!
Meh atleast we still have that ork weirdboy card... I'll be using that instead.
Well...I think people are still going to play them. They are heavily slanted toward your opponent when he has initiative, but by the same rule, they are heavily slanted toward your advantage when when you have the initiative.
The whole "heavy slant toward the player with initiative" thing only comes up when Nurgle moves from the HQ with the warlord during the Command Phase. So all you really have to do to manage the risk is not let your Nurgles retreat to HQ on turns when you have the initiative token.
It's a moving part and something that will take some in-game skill, but it really shouldn't be that difficult to pull off consistently. People may shy away from the Nurgles, but only until they see someone else use it and get a feel for how to play them, I think.
yeah,
... they are heavily slanted toward your advantage when when you have the initiative.
I should hope so if they are taking up space in my deck!
But why in the hell should they ever be biased in favour for my opponent?
Panic...