I was always under the impression that talents for Adversaries have all the requirements they do for PCs. Is that the case?

Specifically a couple of examples:

Beta book page 236: The Parry and Reflect talents for the Inquisitor do not require strain or a hit from a combat check. Is that right?

I was always under the impression that talents for Adversaries have all the requirements they do for PCs. Is that the case?

It's been said by the developers that NPCs do not follow the same rules as PCs. Whatever it says in the statblock for the NPC is how it's meant to be used.

Yikes! No strain for an Inquisitor to use Parry. And they can Parry a hit from Improved Parry. That's rough...but I can see it.

I like my inquisitors being super deadly, but if you think your players are going to take issue with how easy the inquisitor can block and deflect, then you should consider adding in the strain cost.

It shouldn't be a big deal adding in the strain cost. If I recall, their Strain Thresholds start at 20 or 25 during creation. That's huge.

I generally don't worry much about following the rules for my NPC's. I do what works and is fun. It's also just a lot of mechanics to keep track of. If you have your Inquisitor along with 2 rivals and a squad of minions, keepig track of one dudes minor strain expenditures is just to big a pain, and will slow things down.

To be clear I don't necessarily care one way or the other (but it is pretty powerful). I'm just trying to gauge what is intended so I'm consistent with other GMs. So it sounds like what a Talent says for an adversary in the stat block overrules what the Talent says in the Talents section of the book.

Yes, I recall the EotE Emperor's Hand's version of influence didn't require the discipline vs. discipline opposed roll, just the force pips to activate and these are no different in omitting portions for NPCS....keep in mind the intent is for only 1 of these type of NPCs to be in the fight vs. multiple PCs, hence the fudging of talent rules for them.

The goal with NPCs is to keep them as simple as possible, while still being thematically appropriate.

In a game where there's no CL or CR to worry about, game balance is entirely up to the GM. You could make a NPC with a 50 strain threshold, or with 10 soak. Getting rid of strain cost for a talent, if it helps you run a smoother game, is entirely sensible, especially when that NPC's strain threshold is up to you to begin with.

Personally, I add the strain cost of any talent to an NPC that has them.

In the case of the Inquisitor, not having that strain cost for Parry and Reflect, combined with the astoundingly high ranks they have in those talents, can wind up making an Inquisitor nigh-impossible to damage without breaking out the vehicle-scale weapons. If there's no strain cost, then the Inquisitor could simply use Parry or Reflect until the cows come home, knocking down the damage of attacks that do manage to hit (which is impressive to start with given they've also got Adversary 3) by 7 each time, which combined with a minimum Soak Value of 3 (Brawn 2 and armored clothing) and a Wound Threshold in the low 20's. If you're not using a lightsaber, that means any attack that doesn't inflict at least 11 damage isn't going to do squat, and even using a ligthsaber you need to deal more than 7 damage for it to matter, while a vibro-weapon needs to deal at least 9 damage (thanks to them having Pierce 2) in order to deal any damage. An Inquisitor with a higher Brawn and wearing armored robes is going to push those damage values even higher for non-lightsaber attacks.

Seeing as how the MagnaGuard has the strain cost for using Parry listed in its stat block, as does the Fallen Master, I'm really hoping the Inquisitor not listing the strain costs for Parry and Reflect is an editing oversight.

Yeah, I always took the fact that you almost if not ever see a strain-burning talent on an NPC without strain to be kinda a clue that the talents are intended to (typically) function identically to PCs.

The "NPCs don't follow the rules" I more apply to character generation and special situations like force powers, with the usual rule of thumb being they can skip around and only take what they need instead of requiring to chain this-to-that. So you can have that high level force or talent in play without having to buff up the character with smaller talents and powers that aren't really wanted or needed, and could cause an imbalance.

The "NPCs don't follow the rules" I more apply to character generation...

That's largely what I do, although any Force user baddies I have them follow the same rules on activating Force powers with upgrades as the PCs would, including those listed in the official books. After all, they've often got a high enough Force Rating to be able to pull off those multiple upgrades far more often than a PC would, so they don't need to be able to skirt over the added Force Point costs of those upgrades.

I would personally say that the Parry talent for an Inquisitor should use Strain as well, but I think part of this is philosophy. I want the NPCs to be on roughly the same level as the PCs so the PCs feel that they have a fair fight. Having said that, though, I do feel free to select whatever talents I feel are appropriate for NPCs, regardless of what specialization they are in or what talents are a prerequisite to taking them. I have also used the "Nemeses get to act twice" rule in the EotE gamemaster's kit, but that's been strictly for high-level villains.

Even with that out of the way, I do feel that NPCs should be bound by their talents the same way PCs are. Otherwise I think it creates some doubt in the players about how impartial the GM is being. I know one of the popular paradigms is that the players need to trust the GM, but I find that can only go so far. NPCs should play by almost all the same rules as the PCs, especially in combat.

Even with that out of the way, I do feel that NPCs should be bound by their talents the same way PCs are. Otherwise I think it creates some doubt in the players about how impartial the GM is being. I know one of the popular paradigms is that the players need to trust the GM, but I find that can only go so far. NPCs should play by almost all the same rules as the PCs, especially in combat.

Agreed. Let the GM choose what talents and powers get assigned to a given NPC according to how they think they should fit, and without necessarily playing by the same rules that the PCs have to use.

But once the NPC is created and is doing something, actually using those talents or powers should work the same way as if the PCs were doing it.

Most of the time, anyway.

Personally, I add the strain cost of any talent to an NPC that has them.

In the case of the Inquisitor, not having that strain cost for Parry and Reflect, combined with the astoundingly high ranks they have in those talents, can wind up making an Inquisitor nigh-impossible to damage without breaking out the vehicle-scale weapons. If there's no strain cost, then the Inquisitor could simply use Parry or Reflect until the cows come home, knocking down the damage of attacks that do manage to hit (which is impressive to start with given they've also got Adversary 3) by 7 each time, which combined with a minimum Soak Value of 3 (Brawn 2 and armored clothing) and a Wound Threshold in the low 20's. If you're not using a lightsaber, that means any attack that doesn't inflict at least 11 damage isn't going to do squat, and even using a ligthsaber you need to deal more than 7 damage for it to matter, while a vibro-weapon needs to deal at least 9 damage (thanks to them having Pierce 2) in order to deal any damage. An Inquisitor with a higher Brawn and wearing armored robes is going to push those damage values even higher for non-lightsaber attacks.

Seeing as how the MagnaGuard has the strain cost for using Parry listed in its stat block, as does the Fallen Master, I'm really hoping the Inquisitor not listing the strain costs for Parry and Reflect is an editing oversight.

Normally i would agree with you but if you look at some of the player traits etc. a PC can get in excess of 30+ damage depending on armor mods, talents, and blasters chosen. one of my players can shoot 5 (yes 5) blasters a round.

I was always under the impression that talents for Adversaries have all the requirements they do for PCs. Is that the case?

Specifically a couple of examples:

Beta book page 236: The Parry and Reflect talents for the Inquisitor do not require strain or a hit from a combat check. Is that right?

Fallen Master (Nemesis) in Beta update: The Parry and Reflect talents do not require a hit from a combat check. Is that right?

That makes for three shades of Parry and Reflect.

Maybe I'm just reading too much into this and the text is just truncated and Talents always have the same requirements. What do you think?

to answer OP question even if the NPC doesn't have a strain threshold, any strain done to them instead becomes wounds upon them (I forget what page it says this on but will post once I find it.) so short answer yes you can use whatever talents you wish.

Normally i would agree with you but if you look at some of the player traits etc. a PC can get in excess of 30+ damage depending on armor mods, talents, and blasters chosen. one of my players can shoot 5 (yes 5) blasters a round.

..........how exactly does that work?

Normally i would agree with you but if you look at some of the player traits etc. a PC can get in excess of 30+ damage depending on armor mods, talents, and blasters chosen. one of my players can shoot 5 (yes 5) blasters a round.

..........how exactly does that work?

Assassin Droid with Six Arms?

And that's how, with a few minor adjustments, you can turn a regular gun into five guns.

Normally i would agree with you but if you look at some of the player traits etc. a PC can get in excess of 30+ damage depending on armor mods, talents, and blasters chosen. one of my players can shoot 5 (yes 5) blasters a round.

..........how exactly does that work?

House rule?