Let's put aside for this discussion the issues with card reprints and all that, and let's just talk balance.

I think just about everyone agrees that Salm not having an EPT is nonsensical.

From a balance standpoint, considering Horton's amazing pilot ability, is there any reason FFG shouldn't errata him an EPT? Is there some droid EPT combo that would make him overpowered?

Again, let's please avoid card printing and player confusion with different cards arguments for this discussion.

Personally, I think he would be just fine with an EPT, so I gave him one in my House Rules.

As much as I would like an EPT for him, it doesn't need to be errata'd.

As much as I would like an EPT for him, it doesn't need to be errata'd.

In the interest of good discussion, could you give your reasoning?

As much as I would like an EPT for him, it doesn't need to be errata'd.

In the interest of good discussion, could you give your reasoning?

There is an astromech that grants EPTs.

There's no droid-EPT that he could have that Wedge, Luke, Wes, Corran, ect... couldn't also have.

The issue really is cost. Is it balanced to give a pilot a EPT without it increasing the cost of that pilot?

Consider that Hobbie, Biggs and Garvin all cost about the same and none of them have EPT's either.

No. I don't like the idea of adding an icon on via errata. Some of the wording changes FFG has done is bad enough.

There's no droid-EPT that he could have that Wedge, Luke, Wes, Corran, ect... couldn't also have.

The issue really is cost. Is it balanced to give a pilot a EPT without it increasing the cost of that pilot?

Consider that Hobbie, Biggs and Garvin all cost about the same and none of them have EPT's either.

That too.

I would like more pilots for Y-wings, Bombers, Advanced, Defenders, Phantoms E-wings and Z's. Because each of these only have 2 specials, which i don't feel is enough. (A, B, X wings Interceptors and Tie fighters have all the pilots). But yeah you're right on a costs level.

As much as I would like an EPT for him, it doesn't need to be errata'd.

In the interest of good discussion, could you give your reasoning?

He is already balanced without needing an EPT, so as much as I would for him to have one, he doesn't

really need it.

Just use R2-D6. He grants an upgrade.

I'm just curious, though. What EPT would you give him?

Just use R2-D6. He grants an upgrade.

I'm just curious, though. What EPT would you give him?

Determination?

yes, you can use the droid, but there are 2 ways this is inferior. first, it increases the cost of the EPT by 1, second, it keeps you from putting one of several other great droids in there instead. if he had an EPT and droid options, that would be preferable, in my opinion.

Since wave 4 I've been wanting to run him with veteran instincts and a droid, which as of now isn't possible.

Imagine R5-K6,adrenaline rush, and an combo of flechette/ion/protons with an advanced proton. You take your range 2-3 shot, and if you reroll a target lock, you could k-turn for a possible range 1 adv proton with tl and focus!

I also think it would be fun to try him with PTL, R2, EU, A4,and a blaster or ion turret. Preposterously expensive and not really tournament effective, but fun.

I can't think of anything that would be op on him, but I can think of several things that could be fun.

Just use R2-D6. He grants an upgrade.

I'm just curious, though. What EPT would you give him?

PTL would be a nice choice if he is equipped with ordnance. He can TL/Focus, with his ability, torps will hit hard, very hard. Hell, Expose might not be bad. Gives him 3 attack across the board and he gets a mini-TL at range 2-3. But I probably rather just run Wedge or Wes.

But I agree with others, errata-ing something that is not printed at all on a card is taking you down a worm-hole you don't want to go.

There are some interceptor pilots that need an EPT way more than Horton... but that's another discussion.

There are some interceptor pilots that need an EPT way more than Horton... but that's another discussion.

I think that's actually a fair point for this discussion, here's a couple thoughts.

What is the cost of a EPT slot? R2-D6 would seem to put the cost at 1, but you're also giving up a Droid slot for the EPT slot, so I'd say it's higher then 1.

Does FFG not see why an EPT is needed, or is just us who think that these pilots need one? Sure they add more options, but does the slot really make that pilot worse for the points?

Is the cost of Horton correct? Would giving him a free EPT be more or less balanced for the points?

I don't mind if FFG errata in the EPT. If Kavil can have an EPT then there's little reason for Horton not to have one. R2D6 solves the problem somewhat but you're paying a 1 point tax and sacrificing an astromech slot, which is a bummer cuz there are some great droids that Horton can take.

There are some interceptor pilots that need an EPT way more than Horton... but that's another discussion.

True, but at least the interceptor already has several pilots that DO have EPT slots along with amazing abilities (Fel, Jax, Turr). The Y-wing is pretty lacking there even with astromechs.

I don't think Horton could remotely be called over-powered with a free EPT. He's already 25 points and needs at least one upgrade (either a 4 point torp or more likely an ion cannon turret) to be remotely worth his points. Horton's great, but you already need to pour points into him to make him good, giving him more ways to pump points into him wouldn't be overpowered.

I'd be fine with Horton getting an EPT and fine with it being issued as an errata. The game has changed, it's ok to retrofit things that make more sense in light of the current state of the game. As a comparison, Kavil (PS7 for Scum) gets one, but Drea does not, so I'm fine with drawing the line somewhere around PS5 or 6 as the non-EPT group. Also, Horton's ability is really self-buffing, rather than Dutch, Garvin, Biggs, etc. that find roles due to their abilities to help other, better ships. Without an EPT, Horton lives and dies by his ability which is OK, but hardly demanding of a 25 point ship before you even give it a turret or ordnance.

I don't really see the harm in doing so. It's not as if his ability is completely ludicrous for his craft, unlike some B-Wing pilots.

Ya' know? I actually like him without it.

I'm a big fan of Y-Wings in general and Salm in particular, and I like that despite not being flashy in the slightest, they are absolute workhorses. There's a line in one of the Rogue Squadron books (maybe Wraith Squadron?) where Salm tells Antilles that his pilots will never be as good as the Rogues and Wraiths, but that their teamwork and proficiency will get the job done anyway..

Yeah, it would make him better gameplay-wise, but I like that some unique pilots have EPTs and some don't; it creates more interesting and complex choices when building lists. If anything, I'm a little unhappy that so many Wave 3 and 4 uniques got EPTs.

He should have one.

They made some silly design choices by giving EPTs to all later high PS ships, but earlier ones, they were attempting to have EPT as a distinctive slot I think. Just kind of silly. EPT ships became far better as we've seen from the Ints. I think they should make a card for it that lets him get one. Maybe a mod or a title.

The lambdas need one too.

I'd like it as well. He feels pretty over-costed for his ability and so I've never used him. Much like Rhymer actually, who does have an EPT. Maybe they intended him to buddy up with Dutch?

As far as other pilots, Kir Kanos and Lt. Lorrir really could use them too, maybe for a 1-point cost increase. At the moment they rarely see use and I doubt it would unbalance anything. Lorrir would just be an Echo-lite, not doing anything another ship isn't already doing better. Kir Kanos with PtL would ramp up the damage output a lot, but would also be a big target prone to flaming out for being low in the shooting order, so maybe a +2 cost there. Then he'd be at 29 points with PtL, much easier to take down, and still doing less damage than a phantom, although with potentially a little more consistency. Given the amount of damage mitigation keeping big ships in play too long for squishy evasive ships to outlast, I'm not sure this would be a huge problem. All the high-PS phantom killers would be even more effective against him.

I'm really feeling the idea of Horton with ICT, BTL, Marks... There are some clashing aspects between Horton and R1, but at least it's not at the cost of other upgrades.

I'd like it as well. He feels pretty over-costed for his ability and so I've never used him. Much like Rhymer actually, who does have an EPT. Maybe they intended him to buddy up with Dutch?

As far as other pilots, Kir Kanos and Lt. Lorrir really could use them too, maybe for a 1-point cost increase. At the moment they rarely see use and I doubt it would unbalance anything. Lorrir would just be an Echo-lite, not doing anything another ship isn't already doing better. Kir Kanos with PtL would ramp up the damage output a lot, but would also be a big target prone to flaming out for being low in the shooting order, so maybe a +2 cost there. Then he'd be at 29 points with PtL, much easier to take down, and still doing less damage than a phantom, although with potentially a little more consistency. Given the amount of damage mitigation keeping big ships in play too long for squishy evasive ships to outlast, I'm not sure this would be a huge problem. All the high-PS phantom killers would be even more effective against him.

Based on the costing of the Royal Guards, I don't think you'd need to add anything to their cost for adding an EPT slot. The Royal Guard is PS 6 with an EPT for 22 points. Lorrir is a point more expensive with PS5 and an ability that would be pretty good but generates a stress to use. Kanos has the same PS 6 as the Royal Guards but costs two additional points, adding the extra hit result is nice but it is range limited and requires spending a token. Fel's Wrath is another Interceptor pilot that would probably see a decent amount of play if he had an EPT.

EDIT: Also, adding 2 points to the cost of Kanos would make him a point more expensive than Turr, and the same cost as Carnor Jax.