I'm still just waiting for Wave 4 and my decimator to come in the mail.

For example, would you take a wave-3 XXBB list to a tournament when encountering a phantom list probably means losing the game and having no chance of taking first place?

I don't know. When I was pairing a phantom up with my decimator, my friends EZBB list did pretty good against the phantom. I wouldn't think that would be TOO different from an XXBB list.

I'm with you except for the ban idea. ACD has warped the meta but I don't think a ban is the right fix. A better idea would be a couple anti-cloak upgrades, like what they did for the swarm with assault missiles and other area effect upgrades.

For example:

A System upgrade that lets you reduce a cloaked ship's agility by 2.

A Unique EPT that lets you look at an opponent's dial at range 1-3.

A Tractor Beam that forces a 0 move.

The problem with making anti-ACD upgrades/ships is that you don't change the fundamental problem of a phantom vs. anti-phantom metagame, you just change the details of what the anti-phantom lists are using. And, in the worst case, you get a situation like assault missiles where the counter is so narrow that it's wasted points in all other situations and you can't afford to take it. That would probably happen with the "reduce agility" upgrade, taking it instead of AS/FCS would be too much of a sacrifice in the non-phantom matchups so it might as well not exist.

I'm with you except for the ban idea. ACD has warped the meta but I don't think a ban is the right fix. A better idea would be a couple anti-cloak upgrades, like what they did for the swarm with assault missiles and other area effect upgrades.For example:A System upgrade that lets you reduce a cloaked ship's agility by 2.A Unique EPT that lets you look at an opponent's dial at range 1-3.A Tractor Beam that forces a 0 move.

The problem with making anti-ACD upgrades/ships is that you don't change the fundamental problem of a phantom vs. anti-phantom metagame, you just change the details of what the anti-phantom lists are using. And, in the worst case, you get a situation like assault missiles where the counter is so narrow that it's wasted points in all other situations and you can't afford to take it. That would probably happen with the "reduce agility" upgrade, taking it instead of AS/FCS would be too much of a sacrifice in the non-phantom matchups so it might as well not exist.

A system upgrade is only one idea for a slot, it could go other places, and that's just one idea off the top of my head. It's better to think creatively than to just ban something. That's the benifit of a living card game type of system, almost anything can be fixed with new cards. Also assault missiles aren't just anti-swarm, I've seen them used efectivly against Biggs, and in Epic games.

If you're just concerned with tournament lists, then deciding what tools you'll need and what you can sacrifice not having to deal with a variety of builds is always the case. You're not going to find a list that can beat everything, and if you could, everyone would be flying it.

For example, would you take a wave-3 XXBB list to a tournament when encountering a phantom list probably means losing the game and having no chance of taking first place?

I don't know. When I was pairing a phantom up with my decimator, my friends EZBB list did pretty good against the phantom. I wouldn't think that would be TOO different from an XXBB list.

It is.

Traditional XXBB is considered generics with Biggs with no real high PS. Or this: Is the only possible PS 9 variant. (Or similar)

I would rather face that corran build with my phantom/decimator build than the wedge one. It will be a lot easier to thin the heard of the Z than a rookie and the PS on wedge is the real killer for a phantom.

I would rather face that corran build with my phantom/decimator build than the wedge one. It will be a lot easier to thin the heard of the Z than a rookie and the PS on wedge is the real killer for a phantom.

I don't know, Corran has Vet Instincts, R7-T1, and FCS on him. If he points himself at Whisper, which will happen after Whisper moves, she's probably gone after the second shot. Plus with a Hull Upgrade, Corran is likely to survive long enough to take those shots.

True. I wasn't really factoring in the VI.

True. I wasn't really factoring in the VI.

Hey, no worries. What do you have on the Decimator, out of curiosity?

Hey, no worries. What do you have on the Decimator, out of curiosity?

Rear Admiral with

Isaard

Experimental Interface

Expose

Weapons Engineer

Mara Jade

Seismic Charges

Sometimes with Echo, sometimes drop the charges and run 3 academies.

So, no, the traditional definition of XXBB (or even any possibility you can come up with) does NOT have a good theoretical chance against the Phantom.

Wedge, Swarm Tactics

Biggs

Blue Squadron

Blue Squadron

I'll take that Phantom to go, please.

Hey, no worries. What do you have on the Decimator, out of curiosity?

Rear Admiral with

Isaard

Experimental Interface

Expose

Weapons Engineer

Mara Jade

Seismic Charges

Sometimes with Echo, sometimes drop the charges and run 3 academies.

That seems positively terrifying! How often do you manage to get into Range 1 for Mara?

I would probably prefer the three Academy pilots as support, but I can see how Echo could be stunningly effective there.

That seems positively terrifying! How often do you manage to get into Range 1 for Mara?

Yeah. I agree with Mara. But I think you should have gunner. And drop the bomb. Haha.

Also leaving whisper or echo on the table after you've taken out anything of theirs that poses a problem to it is just absolutely terrifying.

Yeah. I agree with Mara. But I think you should have gunner. And drop the bomb. Haha.

Also leaving whisper or echo on the table after you've taken out anything of theirs that poses a problem to it is just absolutely terrifying.

Not that this really has anything to do with wave 6, sorry OP. This has been more wave 5 worries.

I can't wait for wave five and the flood of rebel complaints now they have to face turret ships and it's unfair because their lists don't work anymore.

Because we imps won't have any sympathy after two years it's time for payback.

I can't wait for wave five and the flood of rebel complaints now they have to face turret ships and it's unfair because their lists don't work anymore.

Because we imps won't have any sympathy after two years it's time for payback.

Not all rebel players field Falcons and unless you're a jerk who insists on Rebel vs. Imperial you have to face then regularly enough... so wave 5 and the Decimator will change what exactly for the Rebels?

I mean aside from entire swarms getting ionized at once, but I guess the Imperials have swarms too.

My only real worry was the possibility of different movement dials, as this would have broken ship reuse, but I believe dials have been confirmed now as the same as previous. Phew!

DoctorMike