A lot of great ideas. I will have to try a few of them out. Maybe then I can justify getting a 3rd one :-)

Inspired by this thread and Babaganoosh's post, I dabbled around in squadron builder and came up with this list.

It started out with Horton and Airen, and I was thinking of something to add to the list. I've never tried Keyan with a HLC before, so I added that, and then PTL to generate some stress. He can barrel roll into the range he wants to be and pick up a TL. From there I had 3 points left, and on a whim added the B-wing/E2 mod, again because I haven't played it before.

Going through the list of crew that I can get with the last 2 points, I found the Mercenary Pilot (another card I've never played, yeah, I don't get to play often). Alternatively I could give him C3PO.

What do you guys think?

100 Points

Just fyi, from an imperial player: bombs suck

Also. The fat Horton list does look fun. Could be tier 2 competitive. By YwingAce. I like it.

Oh no, my young Imperial player. You will find that it is you who are mistaken. About a great many things.

Bombs are awesome!! The Proximity Mine should be particularly awesome against the Phantom specifically. You poop it out on the Phantom, and boom - 3 red dice. Also, if I'm reading it correctly, the Phantom (or anything else) does not get to use its green dice to defend itself from bombs.

Please, my dear Emperor. Have YOU tried it?

3 dice no focus is 1.5 hits. 3/8s of a chance of a crit.

a moderate level of possibility of zero hits. and even 1 hit on one ship isn't going to really be anything to write home about.

So really, what you need is two hits, which as you can easily see, is statistically better than average.

Also you lose your action for the turn. Also, its not as easy as you think taping a bomb to a Phantom. Like nailing jello to a tree. go try it!

It is still at least somewhat good against the Phantom with 2 hull, but still not likely to finish them off. Also, a Phantom player will be actively avoid letting you do a 3 hard, 3 slight or long straight that goes right past them. If they are in such close quarter, its likely theyve flown themselves into a trapped area anyway. Though, this is where the Prox Mine could help your list just have a slight chance against the Phantom.

What im saying is. Its good if you have no other options. ... But there are much better options. Like a Gunner Isard Decimator.

--

note you also lose an action, so youre likely focusless for that turn's attack/defense.

--

Also if you misgauge it slightly and end up overlapping, youre just.. done. done. wasted a whole turn. no action, probably no shot, no bomb drop, bad position.

Youre just playing with chance and statistics and good eye guaging, and hoping you have a bad opponent who doesn't avoid you and take hell-defying 4 dice shots at your measly bomber from afar and from your side.

But here's the thing about the Phantom. If you know how to fly your bomber, the Phantom is a sitting duck. That's because per the FAQ, the mine goes off on release. That means the Phantom can't fly away after you drop it after your low PS maneuver completes.

Sure, that Phantom has 4 red dice, but Bombers and Y-Wings can take a beating.

Also, they're a lot cheaper in points, and a 3-point proximity mine isn't that expensive (unless you count the price of the Slave I expansion, which is why I only have one such mine).

Won´t bombs become easier with the addition of the Salvaged Astromech ´´Genius´´?

Low PS Y-Wing, move first towards your high PS target and *BOOM*

Sure you get a hit yourself, but dropping a proton bomb next to an E-wing and some Z-95´s or a TIE-Phantom before it decloakes could be worth it?

I like y-wings they blow up good.

I love how clever you are. And helpful. In no ways like an 8 year old. None at all.

Thanks buddy.

http://xwing.watchthefilm.net/blog/2014/08/wave-6-scum-villainy-speculations-luc/

Scroll down and the writer has speculated at what the cards mean:

BT[L-A4] Y-[Wing] – Y-wing only. Title – “You can[not perform attacks] outside [your firing arc.] After you [perform a] secondary [weapon attack] immediately [perform an] attack [with your primary weapon.] – 4 pts

This makes a lot of sense as the earlier model Y-wing didn't have a gunner seat so the 'turret' was forward firing and operated by the pilot.

4 points to allow Ion/Blaster/Autoblaster Turret AND primary attack on the same target doesn't seem too OP considering how brick like the Y-wing flies. This combined with the bomb-bay upgrade would create a potent heavy-fighter.

I personally like the interaction between the speculated Autoblaster Turret and the BTL-A4 Y Wing: Perform a secondary attack at a target within your arc only, as this is an Autoblaster it forces your opponent to spend Evade tokens as dice results can cannot cancel hits. Then you get to perform a primary weapon attack, and as the target will have spent whatever Evade tokens it has you're attack should do more damage. A potent 1-2 punch.

What do you guys think?

100 Points

19 points

Airen Cracken

39 points

Horton Salm

Proton Torpedoes, Proton Torpedoes, Ion Cannon Turret, Munitions Failsafe

42 points

Keyan Farlander

Heavy Laser Cannon, Push the Limit, B-Wing/E2, Mercenary Copilot

I would swap out the Merc Copilot with Jan Ors. Now Keyan can take a Focus action and end up with an Evade token, plus his TL for offense or BR if he doesn't have a shot. It's my favorite way to play Keyan (granted, I haven't tried it with the HLC but it can't be bad.)

As for Y-wings, I love the occasional gold with ion cannon turret, and Dutch is always solid on my teams, but otherwise I haven't managed to make them work. Here's a team with my Gold that does wonders:

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)

-Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Dagger Squadron Pilot (24)

-Advanced Sensors (3)

Tala Squadron Pilot (13)

Tala Squadron Pilot (13)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

100 points

The list can set up as a giant blob, with the B and Y on one side and the Z's on the other, as 3 sets of pairs, or with 2 pairs of Z's and two loner tanks, and still work just as well as any other way of setting up. 6 ships is pretty buff for Rebels. The gold shoots last, after tokens are stripped and after you'd have killed ships for the round to set you up for next turn.

I also like Jan Ors instead of Merc copilot. There's so much utility with Jan that it's a little ridiculous. 1/2-agility ships having access to an evade token is pure money, and as per new FAQ her ability also works on the ship that she's on.

http://xwing.watchthefilm.net/blog/2014/08/wave-6-scum-villainy-speculations-luc/

Scroll down and the writer has speculated at what the cards mean:

BT[L-A4] Y-[Wing] – Y-wing only. Title – “You can[not perform attacks] outside [your firing arc.] After you [perform a] secondary [weapon attack] immediately [perform an] attack [with your primary weapon.] – 4 pts

This makes a lot of sense as the earlier model Y-wing didn't have a gunner seat so the 'turret' was forward firing and operated by the pilot.

4 points to allow Ion/Blaster/Autoblaster Turret AND primary attack on the same target doesn't seem too OP considering how brick like the Y-wing flies. This combined with the bomb-bay upgrade would create a potent heavy-fighter.

I personally like the interaction between the speculated Autoblaster Turret and the BTL-A4 Y Wing: Perform a secondary attack at a target within your arc only, as this is an Autoblaster it forces your opponent to spend Evade tokens as dice results can cannot cancel hits. Then you get to perform a primary weapon attack, and as the target will have spent whatever Evade tokens it has you're attack should do more damage. A potent 1-2 punch.

If this is an accurate guess, I'm probably going to staple that card to Horton.

To anyone that wants me to elaborate, this is probably the Fat Horton that got the most likes:

Horton Salm (25)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Flechette Torpedoes (2)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

R7-T1 (3)

Experimental Interface (3)

However, there are 2 others I made:

Horton Salm (25)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Flechette Torpedoes (2)

Flechette Torpedoes (2)

R7-T1 (3)

Experimental Interface (3)

Horton Salm (25)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

R7-T1 (3)

Experimental Interface (3)

The basis is, Horton can Focus, then trigger EI to use RT to get a TL and boost if necessary.

I've said it before elsewhere, but I'll put my two cents in again here - I like Horton, but I don't think he pairs well with R7-T1. Horton likes to hang out at long range at fire off torpedoes. He packs a wallop with a proton torp especially. Once the torpedoes are gone, he isn't doing awesome work, but he's still pretty decent.

R7-T1 is good if you want to close the gap fast, or arc-dodge at close range. But torpedo-shooting Horton doesn't want to be close, and if triggers the boost he'll move himself out of his own firing arc or too close to shoot a torpedo. R7-T1 is great with ICT Y-Wings though, and I do see an ICT here, but I also see 19 points of upgrades. Horton doesn't have the resilience to justify 44 points, especially if Biggs isn't around.

I think he'll be way too tempting and vulnerable a target, and the ICT/R7-T1 combo isn't likely to be in play long enough to justify the expense.

I prefer Horton loaded with a couple of proton torpedoes, and supported by abilities on other ships, such as Garven and Airen. This way, he hits hard early-on, and when his torpedoes are gone or he is space dust, the points spent making him deadly are still on the board helping you out.

If you read the card, you'll notice the boost optional, it is for lining up with arc dodgers like squints and phantoms, and it is a great way to get Focus + TL for your torps, and after they are gone, you can arc dodge and ion control. And if he's a tempting target, that much the better, because they shot him instead of Wedge, who is more of a threat.

To anyone that wants me to elaborate, this is probably the Fat Horton that got the most likes:

Horton Salm (25)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Flechette Torpedoes (2)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

R7-T1 (3)

Experimental Interface (3)

However, there are 2 others I made:

Horton Salm (25)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Flechette Torpedoes (2)

Flechette Torpedoes (2)

R7-T1 (3)

Experimental Interface (3)

Horton Salm (25)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

R7-T1 (3)

Experimental Interface (3)

The basis is, Horton can Focus, then trigger EI to use RT to get a TL and boost if necessary.

I've said it before elsewhere, but I'll put my two cents in again here - I like Horton, but I don't think he pairs well with R7-T1. Horton likes to hang out at long range at fire off torpedoes. He packs a wallop with a proton torp especially. Once the torpedoes are gone, he isn't doing awesome work, but he's still pretty decent.

R7-T1 is good if you want to close the gap fast, or arc-dodge at close range. But torpedo-shooting Horton doesn't want to be close, and if triggers the boost he'll move himself out of his own firing arc or too close to shoot a torpedo. R7-T1 is great with ICT Y-Wings though, and I do see an ICT here, but I also see 19 points of upgrades. Horton doesn't have the resilience to justify 44 points, especially if Biggs isn't around.

I think he'll be way too tempting and vulnerable a target, and the ICT/R7-T1 combo isn't likely to be in play long enough to justify the expense.

I prefer Horton loaded with a couple of proton torpedoes, and supported by abilities on other ships, such as Garven and Airen. This way, he hits hard early-on, and when his torpedoes are gone or he is space dust, the points spent making him deadly are still on the board helping you out.

If you read the card, you'll notice the boost optional, it is for lining up with arc dodgers like squints and phantoms, and it is a great way to get Focus + TL for your torps, and after they are gone, you can arc dodge and ion control. And if he's a tempting target, that much the better, because they shot him instead of Wedge, who is more of a threat.

I like Horton a lot, but I have to agree with Babaganoosh... R7-T1 just isn't worth it. Focus + Target Lock isn't worth getting the stress on Horton, especially since R7-T1 only works against ships at range 2 or closer. Save R7-T1 for Dutch, I find an engine upgrade and another droid are better on Horton. I mean... Engine Upgrade, R2-D6 and Push the Limit is only 2 more points and just plain better unless you want to Target Lock, Focus and boost, which would only make sense for a shot at range 1, because at range 2 Horton would already re-roll blanks and you already have a focus token.

If you read the card, you'll notice the boost optional, it is for lining up with arc dodgers like squints and phantoms, and it is a great way to get Focus + TL for your torps, and after they are gone, you can arc dodge and ion control. And if he's a tempting target, that much the better, because they shot him instead of Wedge, who is more of a threat.

Horton is probably more dangerous than Wedge at R2-3 with those proton torpedoes, and inside R1 he would be very squirrely kitted out with all these toys, so I think he IS more of a threat than wedge in this case, if not in general. But he costs ~15 points more than Wedge so that isn't surprising. At over 40 points, Horton is overloaded. I'll point out that you're loading up every upgrade slot he has, and not with cheap cards.

Going back to basics, the reason Horton is good is that he bypasses one of the worst aspects of most ordnance; the spending of a TL just to roll attack dice. Horton still needs to have a TL to shoot a torpedo, but it doesn't matter as much to him because of his reroll ability. A good Horton build should exploit this ability. In fact, a TL isn't worth as much to Horton as it is to other pilots (if he isn't using it to shoot off a torpedo), because he has a native reroll ability. If you're spending a TL to modify dice on your attack at R2-3, you're wasting Horton's ability.

I have read R7-T1, and the FAQ entry, and I understand that both actions are optional. R7-T1 and an ICT aren't the worst upgrades you can put on Horton, but they don't play to his strengths. Horton's ability is wasted at close range, where R7T1 comes into play. The TL from R7T1 can be redundant with Horton's ability. If he's not shooting a torpedo, a focus is often flat-out better than a TL for Horton.

You could also build a better ICT/R7T1 platform by just substituting Dutch w/ VI for Horton. Lower PS, but more action-efficient and also very synergistic with the rest of your squad.

Building Horton to be both a ordnance carrier and an ICT platform is wasteful. It's too many points for the ship, too vulnerable to being focused down early. He can do all sorts of tricks, but only as long as he is flying, which may not be long.

It has been said elswhere, but there is no better board control ship in the game. Ion cannon mandatory, then flechettes, add a stress bot or I like the one that gives target lock and boost on dutch, as this generates a second lock for him to share as well. You also get a biggs like effect for free, because imperial players HATE HATE HATE the Y-wing. Even if you never fire a shot with it, most imps will expend a lot of resources to kill it and do so quickly. Great against phantoms and interceptors in particular, because it negates their hypermobility. anoter thing worth trying is a grey with an R2 and engine upgrade. Excellent dogfighter and will really catch your opponent off guard. I also think it will be great with a prox mine. I dont know if I have ever fielded a rebel squad without a y-wing.

I don't think Dutch gets a second Target Lock to share - even if it is giving it to him for free, if he has taken the TL action, he cannot get another free TL - unless it's from R5-K6, which is a special case.

We don't hate the y-wing at all we just see it as a free kill and the opportunity to unbalance your opponent by killing one of his ship so early is not to be underestimated.

For the same reason you go for b-wings unless there's a bigger threat on the board.

I don't think Dutch gets a second Target Lock to share - even if it is giving it to him for free, if he has taken the TL action, he cannot get another free TL - unless it's from R5-K6, which is a special case.

I think you would if you performed a TL action, then used R7-T1 with Experimental Interface, you could hand out 2 target locks. Dutch's text reads that a friendly at R1-2 can acquire a TL after you acquire a TL. It doesn't specify that any of those are actions. So any time you get a target lock on someone, whether through action or whatever else, you can have one of your buddies also acquire one. This would also work with R5-K6; the text mechanics are the same, using "acquire a target lock" instead of perform a free TL action

I think you guys might be missing something with R7-T1: You don't have to boost towards the enemy you're in R1-2 of. Boost towards another target, one you might already have a TL on, and get into R2-3 of them, then let Horton (or whoever else, but this discussion has been largely about him) go nuts on them. Just don't grab the TL.

You could also build a much better ICT/R7T1 platform by just substituting Dutch w/ VI for Horton. Same price, same PS, but more action-efficient and also very synergistic with the rest of your squad.

Not quite: If you wanted VI, you could not take R7-T1, since you would need the EPT Astro.

I don't think Dutch gets a second Target Lock to share - even if it is giving it to him for free, if he has taken the TL action, he cannot get another free TL - unless it's from R5-K6, which is a special case.

You can acquire up to four Target Locks a round using Dutch and R7-T1. I ran them with Horton and Squad Leader, thanks to the EPT Astro. Dutch would, when in range for R7, TL on a ship, pass to the first guy, and then when Horton came up, he'd Squad Leader Dutch to use R7, netting two more TLs. You just have to be careful when assigning your TLs, since you can't TL someone you already have one on.

I like y-wings they blow up good.

I like Tie Advanced, they get ioned off the board wonderfully.

Y-wing swarm does the same to Defenders too. Also some interceptor builds.

Doh; my bad, can't have two droids. Correcting.

Doh; my bad, can't have two droids. Correcting.

Duct tape...

Doh; my bad, can't have two droids. Correcting.

Duct tape...

Mig welder more like.

For those people who don't think bombs suck. Try and paste down a phantom list a bomb list. Go ahead. I'll wait.

Then try against an interceptor list. And a falcon list.

Sure those escorts are easy prey but the main part of their team that will eat you alive will make you rue the day you brought bombs like the scummy terrorists you are. Muhahahaha.

I beat a well flown list of Soontir, RGP, and Kath with my BH+HLC+Gunner, and 3X Scimitar+SC. The bombs forced Soontir to boost/barrel roll, and the nearby asteroids and my BH limited Soontir's final placement, laning him at range 1 of the BH and range 2&3 of my scimitars, which killed him.

So he basically had to choose between taking those move actions and relying on his dice to survive, or taking 2 bomb hits, and hope his dice and focus/evade would hold up under fire. His Kath was already gone, and the RGP had to avoid the bombs as well, putting him out of range, without a shot. I think only my BH took a hit from one of the bombs, but without them I don't know if I would have won the match.

So yes, bombs can be very useful, even if they deal no damage to you opponent.

A Y-wing with R2D2 and a turret weapon is an easy way to regain a shield each round since you can afford to turn slowly. I wish the named pilots had an elite talent though so they could use elusiveness to stay in the game even longer, losing the stress and gaining a shield with each green move. The bomb loadout will make them better, but an elite pilot talent is key to improving them.

A Y-wing with R2D2 and a turret weapon is an easy way to regain a shield each round since you can afford to turn slowly. I wish the named pilots had an elite talent though so they could use elusiveness to stay in the game even longer, losing the stress and gaining a shield with each green move. The bomb loadout will make them better, but an elite pilot talent is key to improving them.

How are you regaining shield by turning? Only straight greens on the Y wing :-).

Until rebel aces made me a very tasty thee B wing list i always fielded a 'control' y wing too.

its just very tnaky and able to cruise at slow speed round the centre so that you're always getting a shot off at someone and there is nowhere safe for decloaking

I prefer to take two, one is slightly sacrificial but still a threat.

Now though having seen Nera, Keyan and a vanilla Dagger rinse though some imperial lists i'm struglling to see why not just to take Nera as while shes expensive shes very resilient and gives me a 1-3 shot in any direction with ordnace and works as that phantom counter as well as the Y wing did.

I