C3PO is one assured evade. The roll is irrelevant. C3PO just improves the roll you choose from 37,5% to 100%.

C-3P0 is only an "assured evade" because with one die the probability of rolling an evade and the probability of getting one from C-3P0 happen to add up to 1, purely by coincidence. Look at it this way:

Roll an evade on the green die without C-3P0 = 1 evade.

Roll an evade on the green die with C-3P0 = 1 evade.

Since the outcomes are exactly the same then it doesn't matter whether you had C-3P0 on that roll. And I'd say "having C-3P0 and not having C-3P0 produce the same result" is a pretty good definition for "C-3P0 did nothing that turn".

C3PO is one assured evade. The roll is irrelevant. C3PO just improves the roll you choose from 37,5% to 100%.

The probability does matter when discussing how much value C-3PO has in a particular game or match up and comparing him to the options passed over in order to take him.

I haven't seen any falcon hate. Its very possible we see the y wing turret mind that's been speculated on as a possible enemy of the falcon.

One of the things I love about this game, is how balanced it is. S&V won't spell the end of the falcon or any other build for that matter. But, it will add more variety. I am sure there will be some builds from S&V that will do well against Han, but that same build will be vulnerable to other builds. I am eagerly awaiting the new faction and all the new tricks it will bring to this game.

I've already found my fat Han ender/replacement. Dash. Rendar. Outrider. Casual tournament on Wednesday demonstrated there's no contest. I don't foresee any thing particularly promising out of scum yet to counter Han other than general strategy. Now I just want to errata the crud out of the g-**** phantom. I'm just sick of hunting the stupid broken things. Screw the fact I've gotten very good at it, I still lose occasionally to it just because dice happen to go just below par and he escapes with a health or two. But by the time you generate enough more shots to cover the flub it's already gone terribly against you. And I'm just tired of prepping lists that have half of their strategy built around the potential ability to deal with the bastards in some way. Why is it that for as broke as Han was, strategy was my counter, but other than hard counter list building my only response to this obnoxious ghost is changes to how it functions?

Seems like the next thing we will be reading about is how Op any combo of the yt-2400 is even compared to the phantom. Sarcasm aside, i think all present and future builds do and will have a counter to them with sound strategy and good wing build.

If my play group is any indication of how much people are going to be complaining about Dash than these halls shall ring with the screams of the beaten and Dash-trodden. But not in comparison to the phantom. The phantom is the best counter I've come across yet to it yet, range one blind spot sucks.

True on the blind spot but a good turreted ion cannon can help on that at least in my opinion.

Not sure the new upgrades will be the end of Falcons but they sure can put the hurt on the impossible to hit ships like PTL E-wings and Interceptors and cloaked, focused and evading Phantoms.

Why would we want to end the swarm? If it's dominating the meta then sure, let's give other builds some tools but I hear a lot of talk about killing off certain list types.

Do you really want to invalidate a play style? How does that make the game more interesting?

Sure the turret Ion is cool for range, but I'm stuck dealing a single damage. Or trying to at any rate with my three dice. Admittedly the nimble Dash with PTL Kyle can focus lock those dice, but **** it's awesome to throw four hits a turn out of your 58 point centerpiece 95% of the time. Ion effect aside, what do I do then against a fat Han with a 50+pt Ion turret? Scratch paint and occasionally make it only slightly more predictable than it already was is all I'm seeing. I really should try ion sometime and up the two rookies to something 'better' but...heavy lasers man...they're so...heavy! haha I feel like the Ion gun should go on Leebo if any. Of late I've been experimenting a lot with Eaden and am growing quite fond actually. Only because I would probably be lit on fire by the play group if I brought out Dash again.

I have no problems with swarms. I have no desire to nix whole list types. All I want to see is the phantom be fun to fly against or never see it again. And if C-3PO had a sudden accident with a particularly steep set of stairs, well, despite using him in my fat Han list, you wouldn't see me complaining.

C3PO is one assured evade. The roll is irrelevant. C3PO just improves the roll you choose from 37,5% to 100%.

C-3P0 is only an "assured evade" because with one die the probability of rolling an evade and the probability of getting one from C-3P0 happen to add up to 1, purely by coincidence. Look at it this way:

Roll an evade on the green die without C-3P0 = 1 evade.

Roll an evade on the green die with C-3P0 = 1 evade.

Since the outcomes are exactly the same then it doesn't matter whether you had C-3P0 on that roll. And I'd say "having C-3P0 and not having C-3P0 produce the same result" is a pretty good definition for "C-3P0 did nothing that turn".

This discussion is pretty simple.

Can you know beforehand you are going to evade ? No

Why ? Because you don't have a 100% chance, but a 37,5%, which is fairly low.

What does C3PO ? One roll at 100%

Calling it a "waste" because you rolled an evade while you already got the effect beforehand (certainty about evading one hit), is rather pointless.

C3PO is one assured evade. The roll is irrelevant. C3PO just improves the roll you choose from 37,5% to 100%.

The probability does matter when discussing how much value C-3PO has in a particular game or match up and comparing him to the options passed over in order to take him.

Tell me a single match up where it matters.

Calling it a "waste" because you rolled an evade while you already got the effect beforehand (certainty about evading one hit), is rather pointless.

You're missing the point here. I know as I roll the die that the outcome will be exactly one evade, regardless of the source. But when you're trying to analyze after the game how much C-3P0 contributed to your survival then it's very possible to have a game where C-3P0 added absolutely nothing because you rolled all evades.

Tell me a single match up where it matters.

Every single matchup where you use C-3P0. You know that C-3P0 costs 3 points and adds an average of 5/8 of an evade every turn that you use him under ideal circumstances (only one die to roll). So you can multiply 5/8 by the number of turns you expect your Falcon to live and get C-3P0's total HP contribution. Then you can compare that number to other defensive upgrades. For example, a hull upgrade costs the same 3 points and adds a single HP independent of your dice. Chewbacca (crew) costs 4 points and adds 2-3 HP (depending on which crit you discard). Etc.

C3PO is one assured evade. The roll is irrelevant. C3PO just improves the roll you choose from 37,5% to 100%.

The probability does matter when discussing how much value C-3PO has in a particular game or match up and comparing him to the options passed over in order to take him.

Tell me a single match up where it matters.

iPeregrine has it right, above: it matters every round where you use Threepio. Part of his value is indeed that the result of using him is that you're certain to generate an evade result--but that just means he's increasing the likelihood of gaining at least one evade result from 3/8 to 1 (or from 5/8 to 1, if you have a focus token).

That's a powerful effect, but it still represents (at most) 5/8 of an evade per round.

That's exactly what it gives. I may had written it incorrectly semantically speaking as "auto evade" if we want to argue nitpicks, but i was pretty clear afterwards about C3PO function, it raises one roll from 37,5% to 100%, not the evade per se. That's the benefit you get from it. Since you don't know how you will roll, the certainty is the benefit you get from it.

3-PO could also be a hull upgrade that adds 0 hull all game, it depends on what you roll.

And buying scratch-offs might make you money. Just because something is possible does not man that it justifies being considered.

Autothrusters will have the greatest impact on fat falcon builds, most likely.

We know nothing about them "except interceptors will want autothrusters" and illicit upgrades which none of them are particularly useful against Fat Han, atleast, not better than just taking extra ships against it.

At the end, this thread is pretty useless because :

- We know next to nothing about scum upgrades, barring a few, which doesn't tell you anything about "changing the meta".

- Wave 5 is behind the corner, and it is gonna shake things a little bit between the turretnators so to speak if Fat Han will be relevant, or Dash/Decimators with different setups, which are played with and against it differently.

- Talking about Z95 swarms is wave 4.

Edit- Facepalm, just saw that it was a bumped thread