More to the point they took the A-wing and the B-wing and made them better. Some people not have liked the two attack dice of the A-wing, but I loved that ship. I still love it, it just costs 2 points less. The B-Wing was already a super power in the game. They had firepower, battlefield endurance, great maneuverability and AMAZING upgrade-ability. But apparently they wanted to give the B-wing more love.

Sometimes I feel like the ships that get the aces are the ships where we want repaints.

(1) The B-wing was already powerful, but the named pilots were duds. Now we have named pilots worth using outside very narrow niches.

(2) I don't know for sure, but I suspect that when the ships were decided on for Rebel Aces, the Y-wing was already earmarked for a Scum & Villainy expansion.

Either way, it wouldn't appear to free up the second crew member to make a crew slot. If he's no longer manning the turret then what's he doing?

I believe the common consensus here is that this (Title, presumably) will make our current 2-seat Y-wings the 1-seat variant. Hence the turret having to be locked in position.

Crew slots for the Y-wing wil never happen because of Dutch+Weapons Engineer (4 TL's for the price of 1!) and Recon spec + R5P9.

Agreed.

It also fits the lore as the two-person BTL-S3 was the most common Y-wing configuration.

As TIE Pilot says, I'm pretty sure the BTL-S3 is the variant we have now: the engineer/weapons systems officer position operates the turret, so we have a turret slot instead of a crew slot.

I imagine that they might think it's not very original for them to do so, because it's already been done with the B-Wing, but it really should have been done with the Y-Wing first.

B-wing/E2 is fairly well established in the lore, while the idea of a Y-wing with a "spare" crew slot (that is, someone without a dedicated job already) isn't found anywhere at all.

Okay, so the /E2 is the shuttle variant, with a seat for someone in addition to the /E variant's gunner. In other words, the B-Wing that we currently have is the /E variant, and the gunner is taken for granted?

Crew slots for the Y-wing wil never happen because of Dutch+Weapons Engineer (4 TL's for the price of 1!) and Recon spec + R5P9.

That first combo is crazy though.

B-wing/E2 is fairly well established in the lore, while the idea of a Y-wing with a "spare" crew slot (that is, someone without a dedicated job already) isn't found anywhere at all.

Okay, so the /E2 is the shuttle variant, with a seat for someone in addition to the /E variant's gunner. In other words, the B-Wing that we currently have is the /E variant, and the gunner is taken for granted?

No, I think the B-wing we have now is the original, single-seat version.

i thought the y-wing turret represented the crew

B-wing/E2 is fairly well established in the lore, while the idea of a Y-wing with a "spare" crew slot (that is, someone without a dedicated job already) isn't found anywhere at all.

Okay, so the /E2 is the shuttle variant, with a seat for someone in addition to the /E variant's gunner. In other words, the B-Wing that we currently have is the /E variant, and the gunner is taken for granted?

No, I think the B-wing we have now is the original, single-seat version.

Isn't that a paradox then with the 2-person Y-Wing, where the gunner is taken for granted?

Why shouldn't the Y-Wing be eligible for the same treatment as the B-Wing?

It seems to make more sense to me that the Y-Wing we have now is the 1-person BTL-A4, which has a turret slot. They could then introduce the BTL-S3, which frequently had blaster turrets, which then might not require 'Focus' to use, given that they're being operated by a gunner rather than the pilot.

I'll give you one thing, it says BTL-A4 (the trench run Y-wing) on the back of the blister. It was originally meant to be a BTL-A4. Somehow.

However, card in Most Wanted which appears to lock the turret overhead. The BTL-A4 has the turret locked forward. And if the title is a BTL-A4, then without the title it's, by elimination, a BTL-S3.

Either way, it wouldn't appear to free up the second crew member to make a crew slot. If he's no longer manning the turret then what's he doing?

Nothing. The BTL-A4 has one seat.

Lower left corner is blank. What do you guys think, Title or Modification? Either way, it's not unique.

Title. Modification is longer and would offset the text more.

Okay, so the /E2 is the shuttle variant, with a seat for someone in addition to the /E variant's gunner. In other words, the B-Wing that we currently have is the /E variant, and the gunner is taken for granted?

No, I think the B-wing we have now is the original, single-seat version.

Isn't that a paradox then with the 2-person Y-Wing, where the gunner is taken for granted?

Uh... no? The gunner isn't taken for granted in the two-person Y-wing variant; the gunner is the one operating the turret.

Why shouldn't the Y-Wing be eligible for the same treatment as the B-Wing?

If FFG wanted to introduce a crew-carrying variant, they probably could--but they're a lot more obscure than the B-wing/E2 (though that admittedly isn't at the front of everyone's mind), having appeared mostly in comics.

It seems to make more sense to me that the Y-Wing we have now is the 1-person BTL-A4, which has a turret slot. They could then introduce the BTL-S3, which frequently had blaster turrets, which then might not require 'Focus' to use, given that they're being operated by a gunner rather than the pilot.

I've gone around on this with YwingAce before, but I'm fairly sure the version we have now is the BTL-S3 (the most common version in the Rebellion, according to Wookieepiedia), with the second crewer operating the turret. The BTL-A4 title doesn't have a turret, but instead has the dorsal gun locked into a particular orientation and fired by the pilot.

If FFG wanted to introduce a crew-carrying variant, they probably could--but they're a lot more obscure than the B-wing/E2 (though that admittedly isn't at the front of everyone's mind), having appeared mostly in comics.

Y-wings with two seats are everywhere and are less obscure than the B-wing/E2, which turns up in a Kevin J Anderson book once. Much less. The original concept Y-wing design with the bubble turret was a two-seater, hence Dodonna's line in the films (one or two man fighters).

The current Y-wing we have is just a Y-wing. If they released a crew title called BTL-S3, then our current one becomes the A4 (that can somehow turn its tureet). If they lock the turret and call it A4, the rotating turret becomes S3.

If FFG wanted to introduce a crew-carrying variant, they probably could--but they're a lot more obscure than the B-wing/E2 (though that admittedly isn't at the front of everyone's mind), having appeared mostly in comics.

Y-wings with two seats are everywhere and are less obscure than the B-wing/E2, which turns up in a Kevin J Anderson book once. Much less. The original concept Y-wing design with the bubble turret was a two-seater, hence Dodonna's line in the films (one or two man fighters).

The current Y-wing we have is just a Y-wing. If they released a crew title called BTL-S3, then our current one becomes the A4 (that can somehow turn its tureet). If they lock the turret and call it A4, the rotating turret becomes S3.

What I meant was that in the typical two-seat Y-wing (the S3), the gunner's time and attention is taken up by shooting at stuff with the turret--so we have a Y-wing with a turret upgrade instead of a crew upgrade. You have to dig pretty deep to find a Y-wing with crew/passengers who aren't more-or-less restricted to operating the guns.

I'll give you one thing, it says BTL-A4 (the trench run Y-wing) on the back of the blister. It was originally meant to be a BTL-A4. Somehow.

However, card in Most Wanted which appears to lock the turret overhead. The BTL-A4 has the turret locked forward. And if the title is a BTL-A4, then without the title it's, by elimination, a BTL-S3.

Oh, and the Gold Squadron Pilot card, pictured below, also specifies that it's the -A4, which is the single-seat variant.

Uh... no? The gunner isn't taken for granted in the two-person Y-wing variant; the gunner is the one operating the turret.

Bro', I love ya, man, but you're simply wrong about this one. The -A4 does not have a gunner, but it does have a turret.

Also, by my reading the -S3 is the more common variant than the -A4, but the -A4 is the one we have.

Bro', I love ya, man, but you're simply wrong about this one. The -A4 does not have a gunner, but it does have a turret.

A turret that, according to the mighty Wookiee, is locked forward.

If the BTL-A4 can rotate its turret, why doesn't Dutch Vander just shoot backwards when they come from behind?

...a crew slot in Y-Wings even more than I already did!

I want to fly Farlander (remove a stress when attacking and it works as an offensive focus) with B-Wing/E2 & Kyle (crew - when you remove a stress get a focus token) but I want to put Jans (crew - when a nearby buddy gets a focus they can get an evade instead) nearby because defensive focus on a 1agility ship isn't as good as an evade. I could put her on a HWK, or a B-Wing/E2, (or a falcon), but I'd really like to put her in a Y-Wing. Dunno know, I just like the idea of a Y-Wing B-Wing combo.

Or just put Jan on Keyan altogether. A Focus token on Keyan is pretty much useless, given the odds of rolling a Focus on a single defense die. An Evade he can always get on the other hand...

...a crew slot in Y-Wings even more than I already did!

I want to fly Farlander (remove a stress when attacking and it works as an offensive focus) with B-Wing/E2 & Kyle (crew - when you remove a stress get a focus token) but I want to put Jans (crew - when a nearby buddy gets a focus they can get an evade instead) nearby because defensive focus on a 1agility ship isn't as good as an evade. I could put her on a HWK, or a B-Wing/E2, (or a falcon), but I'd really like to put her in a Y-Wing. Dunno know, I just like the idea of a Y-Wing B-Wing combo.

Or just put Jan on Keyan altogether. A Focus token on Keyan is pretty much useless, given the odds of rolling a Focus on a single defense die. An Evade he can always get on the other hand...

I agree, that's why I wanted her to change his focus to an evade, but if you lose Kyle then he doesn't get the free token at all.

Bro', I love ya, man, but you're simply wrong about this one. The -A4 does not have a gunner, but it does have a turret.

A turret that, according to the mighty Wookiee, is locked forward.

If the BTL-A4 can rotate its turret, why doesn't Dutch Vander just shoot backwards when they come from behind?

I don't know - maybe he was too busy trying not to crash into the wall. However, locked forward or not, the -A4 is a single-seat craft, and I'm making the case that we get one that's a two-seater, the -S3. Given that the -A4 already allows for the turret upgrade, implies that the single-seater could operate a turret without a gunner.

Now, maybe the ion cannon turret implies that it's the S3 with a gunner...?

Use Roark.

I don't know - maybe he was too busy trying not to crash into the wall. However, locked forward or not, the -A4 is a single-seat craft, and I'm making the case that we get one that's a two-seater, the -S3. Given that the -A4 already allows for the turret upgrade, implies that the single-seater could operate a turret without a gunner.

Now, maybe the ion cannon turret implies that it's the S3 with a gunner...?

I take it you missed the discussion about the actual BTL-?? title card we're getting and the context for locking forward?

BT[ ]
Y-[ ]

You can[ ]

outside [ ]

After you [ ]

[ ]

immediately [ ]

attack [ ]

[ ]

If that first bit isn't "You cannot target ships outside your firing arc" I don't know what is.

Given the amount of text it's not going to be "add a crew slot".

Oh, and the Gold Squadron Pilot card, pictured below, also specifies that it's the -A4, which is the single-seat variant.

It totally does. I've admitted elsewhere that it puts me in an uncomfortable position, but consider the following:

(1) The BTL-A4 has a fixed turret.

(2) The Y-wing in XWMG does not have a fixed turret.

It's really hard to square those with the flavor text on the Gold Squadron Pilot. My guess is that--to the extent the design team for the core set considered the issue at all--it's an S3 if you buy a turret upgrade, and an A4 if you don't.

Uh... no? The gunner isn't taken for granted in the two-person Y-wing variant; the gunner is the one operating the turret.

Bro', I love ya, man, but you're simply wrong about this one. The -A4 does not have a gunner, but it does have a turret.

The A4 does not have a turret. This is where YwingAce got tangled up in another thread: a fixed gun is not a turret, and every reference I can track down for the A4 says its dorsal weapons emplacement is fixed in a particular orientation--not something that can be changed in-flight. (As TIE Pilot says: if the A4s flown by Gold Squadron at the Battle of Yavin weren't fixed forward, why was it a problem that "...they came from... BEHIND"?)

And the reason it's fixed forward is because you can't operate a spinning turret and fly a ship at the same time. Unless we're giving the gun to the astromech a rotating turret on a one seater Y-wing is pretty useless.

It's really hard to square those with the flavor text on the Gold Squadron Pilot. My guess is that--to the extent the design team for the core set considered the issue at all--it's an S3 if you buy a turret upgrade, and an A4 if you don't.

I think the original design team considered it a BTL-A4. The design team has changed, as has the environment of the game, so they're adapting.

Oh, and the Gold Squadron Pilot card, pictured below, also specifies that it's the -A4, which is the single-seat variant.

It totally does. I've admitted elsewhere that it puts me in an uncomfortable position, but consider the following:

(1) The BTL-A4 has a fixed turret.

(2) The Y-wing in XWMG does not have a fixed turret.

It's really hard to square those with the flavor text on the Gold Squadron Pilot. My guess is that--to the extent the design team for the core set considered the issue at all--it's an S3 if you buy a turret upgrade, and an A4 if you don't.

I think that's an acceptable understanding, given the things that we have, but like you say, it's something that we have to imagine because it's not on the cards.

Uh... no? The gunner isn't taken for granted in the two-person Y-wing variant; the gunner is the one operating the turret.

Bro', I love ya, man, but you're simply wrong about this one. The -A4 does not have a gunner, but it does have a turret.

The A4 does not have a turret. This is where YwingAce got tangled up in another thread: a fixed gun is not a turret, and every reference I can track down for the A4 says its dorsal weapons emplacement is fixed in a particular orientation--not something that can be changed in-flight. (As TIE Pilot says: if the A4s flown by Gold Squadron at the Battle of Yavin weren't fixed forward, why was it a problem that "...they came from... BEHIND"?)

Now you're trying for a semantic victory. A turret that's locked down is still a turret, just like a locked door is still a door, even if it's unable to open without a key. Even then, the round tower on a castle is called a turret, even if it doesn't rotate. The A4 does have a turret. It says so on the Canon side of the Wookiee page.

Now, it's acceptable to say that in the context of our game the turret has that 360 deg. fire, the stock -A4 doesn't come with a rotating Ion cannon, but it also doesn't come with a forward-firing ion canon.

It should not be at all surprising that our game doesn't capture the full lore, and this is one of those cases.

I take it you missed the discussion about the actual BTL-?? title card we're getting and the context for locking forward?

Given the amount of text it's not going to be "add a crew slot".

I did not miss it; I just didn't want to get into the speculation game just yet.

Speculating in the dark is one thing. We're got information to work with, sufficient information to eliminate what it isn't. We know what "Add a crew slot" looks like and it's obviously not that. I can understand not wanting to stab in the dark but to cite speculation as cause for outright ignoring the very large amount of text on that card in defence of a crew slot Y-wing is, well, I don't get it. It'd be like showing Vorpal the top of the Most Wanted title card turning out to read "BTL-S[ ]" and him saying he didn't want to speculate and then continuing to argue it as an A4.

While it's got stuff that could point to an A4, what's there rules out an S3.

Speculating in the dark is one thing. We're got information to work with, sufficient information to eliminate what it isn't. We know what "Add a crew slot" looks like and it's obviously not that. I can understand not wanting to stab in the dark but to cite speculation as cause for outright ignoring the very large amount of text on that card in defence of a crew slot Y-wing is, well, I don't get it. It'd be like showing Vorpal the top of the Most Wanted title card turning out to read "BTL-S[ ]" and him saying he didn't want to speculate and then continuing to argue it as an A4.

While it's got stuff that could point to an A4, what's there rules out an S3.

Quite so, but I thought this thread was about what we might like for the Y-Wing in terms of a crew slot; not necessarily about what might be in store for us in the Most Wanted box. That was your tangent. not mine.

I think the ships will end up overlapping too much. =/

too much versatility means nothing is unique.

also: imperial ships really need some help on different upgrades and stuff. Yes, a tie bomber with a crew slot would be awesome.

I think they should do Imp Aces 2 with the Tie Advanced and Tie Bomber. Those really need help.

Let the Gozanti Huge (cough) come with 2 ties and consider more synergistic options. Imperials have very few synergistic options when compared to the Rebels. A little more incentive to formation fly even ^^. A good target for all of those SV and Ruthlessness anti-formation stuff.

They said at GenCon that synergy is Rebel.

Quite so, but I thought this thread was about what we might like for the Y-Wing in terms of a crew slot; not necessarily about what might be in store for us in the Most Wanted box. That was your tangent. not mine.

*blinks*

*blinks again*

You're harder to catch than a TIE phantom.