Just interested to know how Toxic people this this rifle should be,

The toxic rules in deathwatch are somewhat mismatched and .. if using the updated rules for toxic (where the creature trait and the weapon trait are the same as per black crusade onwards)

the fluff would suggest a toxic rating of 5 wouldn't be unreasonable

Just wondering if it's a common decision made by others as well or they maintain the (frankly grim) weapon trait rules for toxic in deathwatch

Ultra Rifle: Range 250m Damage d10+4 Pen 2 Clip 5 Reload Full Qualities: Accurate, Felling (1), Toxic

The rules for all toxic weapons in Deathwatch are found on page 144 of the core rulebook. Any weapon with said Quality in Deathwatch follows those rules. The Toxic Trait is different than the Toxic Weapon Quality, a creature with the Toxic trait is litteraly so toxic merely being around it can poison you. This is not the same for weapons with the Toxic Quality.

Note: Felling would not affect the damage from Toxic, as the extra damage ignores toughness bonuses. Any creature who would lose some TB mitigation from felling would conversly gain a +10, or more, to its toughness test to resist Toxic thanks to the Unnatural Characteristic rules. If a Space Marine is hit with the weapon, not only does he gain +10 from UT, but he gets a free re-roll on said test thanks to his Oolitic Kidney.

Tyranids are immune to it, because they are immune to all poisons and toxins. All orks have Unnatural Toughness and too little Int to care. Tau battlesuits have UT. Daemonic creatures aren't immune, though their bonus TB from Daemonic is not reduced by Felling, and the big daemons also have UT.

There are a lot of ways that rifle is not so useful as you may think.

thanks for the reply, although I would just say that, I think you've misunderstood my question, I'm aware of the pro's and cons of the rile and the toxic trait , what I'm asking is .. if the rifle was to be converted to a system compatable with the toxic trait from black crusade what rateing would people give it ?

Actually Herichimo there is something you may have missed, the weapon has the "Accurate" special rule so as well as a bonus to the aiming it adds extra damage to a basic weapon while aiming equal to an extra d10 per DoS on the To Hit roll up to a maximum of 2D10 meaning the actual damage could be a lot more to the eventual tune of:

3D10+4, Pen 2. (assuming you had a good to-hit roll)

This is actually quite a lot more. The usual rule seems to be that no final test modifier can exceed the +60/-60 thresholds but thats not to say they cannot start better or worse than this before being adjusted as long as they end within that range. So if say the target suffered 15 damage after reduction (you rolled well), this means the penalty starts at -75 before you apply all the usual bonuses. Even with UT and all the marine organs this still means you're looking at -55 toughness test. Not that useless actually as theres a good chance of a decent damage roll and a sufficient penalty.

Also while Nids are immune to weapons with the toxic quality this is not always bomb proof and Apothecary "Create Toxin" specifically allows them to counter the nid anti-poison quality as written in its own description or there are gear items which can allow toxic weapons to work such as a specific genophage sample customised to the strain or target. Additionally since the spirit of the trait says it makes them immune to poisons and disease such as from the toxic quality, I would therefore argue that it does not negate Toxic weapons where the resulting damage is caused by something other than disease and poison such as Rad weapons which is essentially radiation damage. It's not technically a toxin. That would be handled by an extra quality such as "Stuff of Nightmares" which adds environmental hazards and that would ignore the toxin. So depending on what the toxin is doing from your rifle, you may still be able to get one over on nids.

Also while orks have good toughness bonuses, their armour can be a little bit patchy meaning they can suffer the same effects of the poison.

The effectiveness of this weapon then means it can work against most things that are not highest tier Tyranid (Hive Tyrant/Carnifex), High level daemons (Daemon Princes, Greater Daemons) or vehicles. But against elites of most enemies, this thing should work fairly well and serve its purpose.

agreed, add into the mix things such as masterworking, wargear, eye of vengence, master of arms etc you've quite a formidable weapon

thanks for the reply, although I would just say that, I think you've misunderstood my question, I'm aware of the pro's and cons of the rile and the toxic trait , what I'm asking is .. if the rifle was to be converted to a system compatable with the toxic trait from black crusade what rateing would people give it ?

So to look at toxicity then, I would not say it's overly high. It is a sniper rifle but isn't a dedicated poisoning like a Needle Rifle. Perhaps something like Toxic (1) as some of the most virulent items in the Tome of Decay barely reach Toxic (2) and even fewer get to 3 and 4 which are usually reserved for unique or relic items so yes Toxic (1) is probably your best bet as well as the remaining qualities.

thanks for the reply, although I would just say that, I think you've misunderstood my question, I'm aware of the pro's and cons of the rile and the toxic trait , what I'm asking is .. if the rifle was to be converted to a system compatable with the toxic trait from black crusade what rateing would people give it ?

If this is your question, you should have asked it in the house rules section.

agreed, add into the mix things such as masterworking, wargear, eye of vengence, master of arms etc you've quite a formidable weapon

As is any other weapon in this situation.

if I were asking for a compleate redesign of the weapon stats/features then yes maybe I'd have asked in the house rules section but.. as as this a conversion from edition to edition I'd have classed it as an erratta.

Moderators are of course free to move my post if they feel I have overstepted the bounds.