Hi there,

So I have a bunch of Deathwatch books that have yet to be played because my players told me they'd prefer Dark Heresy Second Edition. I'm working on reading that right now, but I wanted to get some use out of those Deathwatch books.

In those Deathwatch books I have stats for Necrons and some Chaos Space Marines that I think would both make for some harrowing encounters for my players. Any advice on porting those types of adversaries over?

My plan for the Chaos Space Marine is to have him be a lone Word Bearers Dark Apostle who's acting behind the scenes and manipulating various Chaos cults. The players wouldn't be facing him directly for several adventures. He would be a mastermind behind the scenes villain. What do you think?

And any ideas on suitable Necron adversaries to throw at a group of acolytes?

Thanks for your time,

DWR

I'd check in the other forums (BC and OW) for converting there, 2nd edition is similar enough to those lines where it should be alright. Other than that just make sure that you combine the skills that are combined and rework talents into the closest incarnation you can.

Chaos space marine idea sounds fine, but make sure they realize they can use the Influence system to get back up.

Necrons? Well one Necon alone should be enough to terrify them. You could always have a Flayed one play Slasher villain in a hive area for some reason. But they're incredibly deadly so watch out.

Thanks!

DWR

Keep in mind that there are two important differences between DH & DW

- DH has a Focus on invistigation (or should have...) while DW has a Focus on combat
- DW Features Spacemarines a Player characters that come with their full wargear, DH Features mere humans that Need to "acquire" gear over time.

That being said, you might run into a big Problem if you Focus a campaign (or Story arc) on having one CSM Boss battle at the end. If can make the "way" into something very entertaining, this will work. Thereby, think about the CULT more then about the CSM. They will deal with the cult a lot more. So, the way your CSM is might have influence on the cult. But make sure you some reason for the CSM to be were he is (where ever oyur final fight is going to happen).

Talking the "Boss battle" be sure to have a fine number of OTHER demanind opponents that the characters Need to deal with besides the CSM. No matter how many wounds he has, a complete cell of acolythes that has the weapons & talents to get past his TB and his AP will deal with him quickly. If they don´t have the weapons, he will deal with them rather quickly. Make sure to give him en Entourage.

A nice idea: include a number of "Boss battles" in your Story arc were the "Boss battle" is more of a flight attempt of the "Boss". If he makes it, add him to the "final Boss fight Entourage".

- DH has a Focus on invistigation (or should have...) while DW has a Focus on combat

- DW Features Spacemarines a Player characters that come with their full wargear, DH Features mere humans that Need to "acquire" gear over time.

Not to mention the difference in raw power level of both games. DW's Marines are notably more powerful than even the version featured in Black Crusade, with a ton of special perks and abilities designed to provide more oomph beyond the most basic traits, and all of this was (hopefully?) considered when creating enemies for them.

Remember: you are considering to pull an NPC out of a game where player characters can solo Bloodthirsters, and place it into a game where a bunch of thugs with knives and shotguns are supposed to be a challenge.

That being said: if you use said NPC as a boss enemy rather than a regular encounter, you could easily make it work, and hopefully hit that fine balance between cakewalk and partywipe where your players have to keep on their toes and feel challenged, as it makes an eventual victory all the more sweeter if it had to be earned with sweat and blood.

There is also a small risk that some players might consider the encounter "unusually tough" for a given opponent, but that is simply a matter of which interpretation of a given opponent and/or weapon they have subscribed to, and will likely be different from player to player regardless of what you do.

From personal experience, I recall my group encountering a CSM as a sort of "miniboss" once, and he quickly proceeded to onehit our Psyker into unconsciousness and almost wiped the entire party. I think we only managed to beat him because his primary weapon (some big, scary axe) got stuck in a wall due to a bad WS roll, and because I managed to roll Righteous Fury twice in a row, and because the GM allowed to / railroaded the combat into one of us shoving a grenade through a hole in his armour.

Needless to say, this didn't exactly serve to sway me from my opinion of "for the love of the Emperor, don't use anything from any of the other games without tweaking!"

Or have a SM killteam in full power armor investigate the shady dealings of a hive noble rumored to be involved in trading xenos tech.

Noble's bodyguard: "You can't come in here this is private property"

Deathwatch captain Vandorn: "Really? Are you high on fear suppresants or just BLIND?"
bodyguard: "none may pass!"

captain: " Seriously? Motherfu- I HAVE A SQUAD OF FIVE SPACE MARINES IN POWER ARMOR WITH BOTLERS AIMED AT YOUR HEAD AND YOU ARE JUST GONNA STAND THERE AND BLOCK OUR WAY?"

bodyguard: "Sorry sir but i have my orders"

Captain: "Thats it! You go squish now!"

Brother Artemis: " Sir calm down, we are suposed to keep a low profile and not antagonise the mortals."

Captain: "oh for- bloody Ultramarines - Ok, fine we shall not go trough the door into your masters' mansion."

Bodyguard (smiling): "Very good sir"

Captain: " Brother Howlwulf! Go TROUGH THE WALL ! BREAK IT DOWN!"

Bodyguard: "wha-waaaah!"

Brother Howlwulf: "FOR THE EMPEROR!!! * smashes straight trough the wall*

Captain: "Brother Ezekiel, are you ready to ask lord Helmwar some polite questions?"

Brother Ezekiel: *revving up chainsword* "I am now."

I'd take some serious issue with Space Marines considering themselves above mortals. Sounds very heretical to me.

Ok, so you are the Emperor's angel of death, with a mandate from the holy ordos, (well ordo xenos anyway) and some normal human has the balls to stand in your way? yeah no, that is a dishonor to your chapter.

I think most marines know they are (in some fields, mostly physical) superior than other humans, after all they were MADE to be meta-human, but just dont care enough about it to make a deal about it.

Not every chapter is so: "humans come first" as the Salamanders.

They still respect those with the same level of authority as them.

Not every chapter is so: "humans come first" as the Salamanders.

Depending on the source and interpretation of the writing .. their alleged friendliness towards humans is definitely contradicted by a story from Gav Thorpe, and even the codex and WD descriptions can be seen in different ways, given that Salamander Marines are not only living with the native population, but ruling over them, to the point where youngsters see this vaunted position as a major reason to become like them ("I want to rule over people too!").

I actually think the Ultras might be a better example, if only because it's less ambiguous, more consistent there.

They still respect those with the same level of authority as them.

I have to agree with Mr. Graves that this does depend a lot on the Chapter ... just think about all the trouble some Chapter Masters give the Inquisition!

They still respect those with the same level of authority as them.

Now once again depending on the chapter, or even the chapter's command ecchelon/chapter master.

The same authority: Who has the same authority to a chapter master? Is it a General in charge of a guard regiment? Is it a Navy Admiral in charge of a fleet? Is it an inquisitor who can order exterminatus?

Bear in mind guard and navy are part of the command structure of the adeptus Terra, a chapter master has complete freedom in how the chapter wages war.

And it is about more than authority: it's about experience: you have space marine leaders who have seen active combat for hundred of years- they have experience way beyond the 49 year old guard general or even the 100+(rejuvenat treatments) admiral.

While this more serious discusion how marines view non marines is very intresting, i'd like to clarify that my post of the kill team doing an acolyte group's job was intended as a bit of a parody: It's quite absurd to expect a squad of heavily armored meta-humans to conduct subtle crime investigation.

Generally they're on the same level as a planetary governor or a warmaster from what I understand, but yes I got it from Lyn that it also depends on the chapter in question. Something I didn't take into consideration.

Bear in mind guard and navy are part of the command structure of the adeptus Terra, a chapter master has complete freedom in how the chapter wages war.

I dunno, the rulebook did show a dotted line connecting the Astartes to the Administratum - and someone was very specific when s/he told the Celestial Lions to deploy all 1,000 Marines on Armageddon at an insecure location...

I think the thing is that many Chapter Masters just like to make use of the unofficial exception clause that goes a little like so: "No. Whatcha gonna do about it?"

On paper, though, the High Lords and the Inquisition speak for the Emperor himself , and since this is nothing that could be said about any Astartes, that would make the Space Marines their b*tches.

(at least in what I've read - it may very well be that things are a little different in this RPG; see its version of the Deathwatch)

On paper, though, the High Lords and the Inquisition speak for the Emperor himself , and since this is nothing that could be said about any Astartes, that would make the Space Marines their b*tches.

Ho boy, that would so have pissed off every marine of (one of) my homebrew chapter(s) the World Breakers.

They see themselves as pretty much the Emperor's grandchildren (nothing to do with the III legion!) and part of His original plans for galactic conquest. They don't like mortals claiming they represent the Emperor. They do tend to get along well with the Maleus and Xenos ordos, but they really don't get along with the ordo hereticus

.

Well they obviously have to obey certain rules, like submit geneseed for purity testing, but the chapters have way more autonomy than any other imperial armed forces.

How much control would the adeptus terra have of mechanicus troops/knight houses?

Thanks to the others who chimed in as well. This helps. I really want to scare the poo out of my players and give them some worthy adversaries but I also don't want to put them in unwinnable situations

Oh they will be fine!

Remember the one rule of RPG's: If you stat it they will kill it.

How much control would the adeptus terra have of mechanicus troops/knight houses?

As an entity by itself, probably as little as over the Space Marines or the Ecclesiarchy! I suppose they could act as a "messenger" for the High Lords, though. And since one of the High Lords is the Fabricator General him/herself, that makes it even easier.

But I suspect the Fabricator General would have their own ways of communicating with the organisation they are the boss of, so the Adeptus Terra would be sidestepped? It'd fit neatly to the organisational chart from the 6E rulebook.

Or have a SM killteam in full power armor investigate the shady dealings of a hive noble rumored to be involved in trading xenos tech.

Noble's bodyguard: "You can't come in here this is private property"

Deathwatch captain Vandorn: "Really? Are you high on fear suppresants or just BLIND?"

bodyguard: "none may pass!"

captain: " Seriously? Motherfu- I HAVE A SQUAD OF FIVE SPACE MARINES IN POWER ARMOR WITH BOTLERS AIMED AT YOUR HEAD AND YOU ARE JUST GONNA STAND THERE AND BLOCK OUR WAY?"

bodyguard: "Sorry sir but i have my orders"

Captain: "Thats it! You go squish now!"

Brother Artemis: " Sir calm down, we are suposed to keep a low profile and not antagonise the mortals."

Captain: "oh for- bloody Ultramarines - Ok, fine we shall not go trough the door into your masters' mansion."

Bodyguard (smiling): "Very good sir"

Captain: " Brother Howlwulf! Go TROUGH THE WALL ! BREAK IT DOWN!"

Bodyguard: "wha-waaaah!"

Brother Howlwulf: "FOR THE EMPEROR!!! * smashes straight trough the wall*

Captain: "Brother Ezekiel, are you ready to ask lord Helmwar some polite questions?"

Brother Ezekiel: *revving up chainsword* "I am now."

The thing is, a sufficiently influential Imperial Noble (we're talking multiplanetary dynast head, rogue trader, lord governor, etc) is likely to watch Howlwulf go through the wall, smile slightly at the attempt at humour, then order a full company of stormtrooper-armed household guard to delay them whilst the 'proper' countermeasures are readied.

Nothing should put the bejeesus up a team of human acolytes like picking over the resulting battlefield for clues and trying to ignore the fact that more than half the kill-team is dead, the two sullen survivors are badly wounded (one missing an arm), and the heretic got away.

Is it to late to create a Black shield who's secretly from the alpha legion, and allowed the rest of the kill team to storm in guns blazing as a distraction, just so he could plant listening devices and remote detonatable bombs in the Noble's throne room?