So the Andrasta title almost certainly appears to say "Your upgrade bar gains an additional _________________."

Here's a thought, what if it's a second Illicit Icon? You could load Dead Man's Switch and Feedback Array at the same time. Use Feedback array once or twice when it is useful, but then when you've got 1HP left and are likely to die this turn, use Feedback Array, triggering Dead Man Switch, deal two damage to your target of choice and 1 more to everyone within Range.

Bad idea? Probably? Fun? Absolutely.

Unless its works for imps. Simply becuase a bounty hunter using illegal weapons while working for the government that banned them is funny.

It does look to be Firespray only. It doesn't look to have enough text for Scum only. I think adding Illicit would give some very interesting options for the Imperial Firesprays.

So the Andrasta title almost certainly appears to say "Your upgrade bar gains an additional _________________."

Here's a thought, what if it's a second Illicit Icon? You could load Dead Man's Switch and Feedback Array at the same time. Use Feedback array once or twice when it is useful, but then when you've got 1HP left and are likely to die this turn, use Feedback Array, triggering Dead Man Switch, deal two damage to your target of choice and 1 more to everyone within Range.

Bad idea? Probably? Fun? Absolutely.

Disappointing to hear its probably an extra upgrade. Firesprays already have so many options, it seems like adding more rather than somethig unique is a missed opportunity.

Unless its works for imps. Simply becuase a bounty hunter using illegal weapons while working for the government that banned them is funny.

It does look to be Firespray only. It doesn't look to have enough text for Scum only. I think adding Illicit would give some very interesting options for the Imperial Firesprays.

I could be wrong. In fact, I bet I am. Just a thought, but, it would be fun!

I'm really hesitant to get into this again, but...

Most places will, in the end, stick to requiring all the right components. Why? Because it's a very hard argument to make that you'll allow the wrong dials to save people money, but not allow them to use copied cards or other components. In the end, it'll be far easier to simply maintain the standard requirement than it will be to go around in circles with people on which components it's OK to break the rules for and which it's not.

It does look to be Firespray only. It doesn't look to have enough text for Scum only. I think adding Illicit would give some very interesting options for the Imperial Firesprays.

That would be interesting, but since it seems to say "additional" I think it's probably something the Imperial version already has. My guess is a crew or cannon slot.

I'd bet on a Crew slot for a couple of points. Would be a lot of oomph to get a second crew.

I'm really hesitant to get into this again, but...

Most places will, in the end, stick to requiring all the right components. Why? Because it's a very hard argument to make that you'll allow the wrong dials to save people money, but not allow them to use copied cards or other components. In the end, it'll be far easier to simply maintain the standard requirement than it will be to go around in circles with people on which components it's OK to break the rules for and which it's not.

I think it can only be a good thing to keep your standardsstandards high. As you say it gets stupid if you say x is ok but y isn't.

If it's crew, that would be great. If it were, say, a cannon that fired from the rear arc, even better.

Most places will, in the end, stick to requiring all the right components.

If we're talking about events like tournaments, league nights, and the like I agree completely. Easier to play by the rules then trying to allow only a few things to be exceptions.

I wouldn't take very long for someone to say "if he can use the wrong dial, I can use this post-it-note for 3-CPO.

At which point the owner or TO has to argue with a customer about what is or isn't allowed and why, and the moment you start to do that, you've already lost as the store owner. Because odds are pretty good you just lost a customer, and no one ever wants to lose a customer if at all possible.

I wouldn't take very long for someone to say "if he can use the wrong dial, I can use this post-it-note for 3-CPO.

And then you say "no, you need a copy of the card so everyone can see the rules text if there are any questions about it". There's a difference between asking to pretend that your scrap of paper is a card and using a dial that has all the same information on it with only minor aesthetic differences.

Now, this does raise the question of printed cards vs. real cards, but a smart store owner or TO should understand that nitpicking the occasional proxy card is not a good way to keep their customers happy, especially in a game with FFG's stock issues.

First I'd heard that you can't use the dials. What a bunch of hooey. So I have to buy a whole host of new dials, which come with ships, which means having existing ships is pretty useless if you want to play scum. I think I'm seriously agitated by this.

Just noticed the double-letter target locks. Do they really think someone is going to need 33 target locks in a single game?

This actually makes sense. If someone isn't buying everything but just buying a few different packs, you want them to have a lock for every ship that needs it and for them all to be different. Only way to do that is a new letter combo with each new release.

First I'd heard that you can't use the dials. What a bunch of hooey. So I have to buy a whole host of new dials, which come with ships, which means having existing ships is pretty useless if you want to play scum. I think I'm seriously agitated by this.

I don't get why this bothers some people. If you consider it a different ship from a different faction, then you'd be buying it anyway. You still need the base tokens and pilot cards from the S&V ship to use them anyway. Your existing ships/dials aren't useless, they're rebel ships/dials.

I do think it's odd that Most Wanted comes with an extra y-wing dial but not extra z95 dials, but maybe that will change.

First I'd heard that you can't use the dials. What a bunch of hooey. So I have to buy a whole host of new dials, which come with ships, which means having existing ships is pretty useless if you want to play scum. I think I'm seriously agitated by this.

Let's say you want to play an eight-ship z-95 swarm. You buy four rebel z-95s, and then you buy four scum z-95s. Since the PS 1/2 and PS 3/4 z-95s (scum/rebel, respectively) are on different pieces of cardboard you now have eight z-95 models, eight z-95 dials, four PS 1/2 cards, four PS 3/4 cards, four PS 1/2 bases, and four PS 3/4 bases. IOW, all of the components required to use your eight-ship z-95 swarm. But wait, FFG says you can't mix dials, even though the only difference is aesthetic! Now you can't use your desired list after all, and you have to buy another four scum z-95s just to get dials with the right picture on them.

And then you say "no, you need a copy of the card so everyone can see the rules text if there are any questions about it". There's a difference between asking to pretend that your scrap of paper is a card and using a dial that has all the same information on it with only minor aesthetic differences.

Now, this does raise the question of printed cards vs. real cards, but a smart store owner or TO should understand that nitpicking the occasional proxy card is not a good way to keep their customers happy, especially in a game with FFG's stock issues.

And if it's not the occasional card? What's the difference between "the occasional proxy card" and an entire squadron of printouts? Why should I need cards at all? Most of the squad builders will print stats and text as part of the squad lists, why not just use the list for everything?

And why does it have to be exact? The TIE Fighter dial is identical to the TIE Phantom, except the Phantom lacks the 5 ahead. That's prime proxy material right there. It's really not that hard to remember the 5 ahead doesn't exist, so I'll just use a Fighter dial for my second Phantom. Did I mention I'm not using a model as an intentional statement on it being cloaked? Models aren't actually important for the game, right?

This is the problem with allowing proxies. There's pretty much no reasonable line between "Use official and correct products" and "I'll just use this printout from Voidstate for everything" and "It's close enough, so you have to let me proxy it.". It's going to be entirely arbitrary.

A smart store owner recognizes cheapskate players who bring nothing but heartache to the store and community, and recognizes that keeping those customers happy comes at the expense of the rest of the game.

I don't understand (well, ok I do - better to say I disagree with) the whole proxy business. If you don't own a component, you don't play a component. I won't even borrow a TIE fighter from a buddy for game night, even if he is just playing Rebel lists that time. It just feels wrong. If I want to fly a Phantom and I don't own one, well....I better find a way to acquire one of my own or adjust to compete with the inventory I have. That's kind of the economics / strategy of war anyway.

Let's say you want to play an eight-ship z-95 swarm. You buy four rebel z-95s, and then you buy four scum z-95s. Since the PS 1/2 and PS 3/4 z-95s (scum/rebel, respectively) are on different pieces of cardboard you now have eight z-95 models, eight z-95 dials, four PS 1/2 cards, four PS 3/4 cards, four PS 1/2 bases, and four PS 3/4 bases. IOW, all of the components required to use your eight-ship z-95 swarm. But wait, FFG says you can't mix dials, even though the only difference is aesthetic! Now you can't use your desired list after all, and you have to buy another four scum z-95s just to get dials with the right picture on them.

I get that, but my point is if it were any other ship, you'd have to make the purchase. If Most Wanted had two Cloakshape fighters instead of Zs you wouldn't be complaining, but you'd still be paying just as much to get you 8 ship swarm. No one says " I already have an 8 TIE swarm, why do I have to pay more to get 8 Z95s", obviously it's a slightly different situation, but not by much.

I don't have a problem with buying additional ships because of the new faction. I figure since I really enjoy the game, I will gladly support it. With epic play, all the extra ships won't go to waste anyways.

Let's say you want to play an eight-ship z-95 swarm. You buy four rebel z-95s, and then you buy four scum z-95s. Since the PS 1/2 and PS 3/4 z-95s (scum/rebel, respectively) are on different pieces of cardboard you now have eight z-95 models, eight z-95 dials, four PS 1/2 cards, four PS 3/4 cards, four PS 1/2 bases, and four PS 3/4 bases. IOW, all of the components required to use your eight-ship z-95 swarm. But wait, FFG says you can't mix dials, even though the only difference is aesthetic! Now you can't use your desired list after all, and you have to buy another four scum z-95s just to get dials with the right picture on them.

I get that, but my point is if it were any other ship, you'd have to make the purchase. If Most Wanted had two Cloakshape fighters instead of Zs you wouldn't be complaining, but you'd still be paying just as much to get you 8 ship swarm. No one says " I already have an 8 TIE swarm, why do I have to pay more to get 8 Z95s", obviously it's a slightly different situation, but not by much.

And if that extra dial needed another cardboard sheet? Something the Most Wanted already has a lot more of than any other release outside the Core. If the dials are the same, I doubt many will have too many objections, so this really seems like a non-issue.

Most places will, in the end, stick to requiring all the right components.

If we're talking about events like tournaments, league nights, and the like I agree completely. Easier to play by the rules then trying to allow only a few things to be exceptions.

I wouldn't take very long for someone to say "if he can use the wrong dial, I can use this post-it-note for 3-CPO.

The comparison is really absurd. It is the same dial. A more valid analogy would be that scum got a huge ship with C3PO too, it did exactly the same as the rebel one, but it said Scum only. It did the same as C3PO, but you couldn't use it with the rebels because just a totally arbitrary nonsensical restriction to boost sales.

I get that, but my point is if it were any other ship, you'd have to make the purchase. If Most Wanted had two Cloakshape fighters instead of Zs you wouldn't be complaining, but you'd still be paying just as much to get you 8 ship swarm. No one says " I already have an 8 TIE swarm, why do I have to pay more to get 8 Z95s", obviously it's a slightly different situation, but not by much.

But the point here is that it isn't a new ship. It's exactly the same dial as the existing z-95, just with a slightly different background picture on the front. There is absolutely no reason to care about using a rebel z-95 dial vs. a scum z-95 dial, except to force you to give FFG more money.

I have four Z95's and am willing to buy another 4 of the scum variant.

And if anyone woudl tell me that I could not use all of them in a scum swarm of 8 I'd not play him (her) ever again.

Scum is all well and fine in-game but it shoudl stay in-game please.

Poster used slippery slope. Its not very effective!

*pokemon theme song*

Not actually a slippery slope argument. I didn't argue that if we allow mixed dials now we'll soon be allowing photocopies or hand-written cards, which would be the normal form of the slippery slope.

The point I was making is that any line you draw and say "It's OK to use this incorrect component, but not that incorrect component" is going to be entirely arbitrary. All of Peregrine's uselessly insulting distractions aside, there's really no reason why it's out of bounds to expect people to buy correctly-marked dials - even ones that are identical on the inside - but acceptable to require people to buy a Firespray just to get a Stealth Device. Any argument offered for one applies just as well to the other.

So not a slippery slope argument, merely pointing out self-centered hypocrisy.

I do not mind being a hypocrite according to you.

I do mind buying more than 4 scum Z95's when I already have 4.

If you have a problem with that? Fine by me. let's never play.