On page 124 of the Force and Destiny Beta book it says "Although there are many different types of lightsabers, for rules purposes, any weapon that uses the Lightsaber skill is considered a lightsaber, even if the weapon has a different name." And in the Beta Update it says "Lightsabers (page 124): Add the following sentence as a separate paragraph to the Lightsabers section, before the individual weapon entries. “Lightsabers cannot be sundered.”" So does this mean that Ancient Swords are considered lightsabers and cannot be sundered?

As per the rules I would say yes. But I would also say that each GM should feel free to adjust as needed.

You know... if I was going to to let ancient swords do things that light sabers do, I'd insist on Cortosis.

Ancient swords might have been made with Sith alchemy or some lost technology that makes them impervious to Lightsaber blades and blaster bolts.

So yeah...immune to Sunder, but can be destroyed with two Triumphs.

However, note the distinct lack of Breach, meaning that an ancient sword isn't going to seen be cutting through blast doors or armored plating

Hmm... it's an interesting question. I don't think being immune to sunder was an intention of that rule, but... huh.

I think it makes sense since they still were used to duel against Jedi after lightsabers were carried.

Good catch.

So, can they be used for Reflect as well?

An Ancient Sword is a reskinned lightsaber. Why is this such a hard concept for everyone?

The point of the rule quoted above is so they can be used for talents like reflect. As for the sunder thing, that never crossed my mind.

Reflect even kind of rubs me the wrong way.

Why's that?

In the great wide Galaxy, there are surely compounds and methods of melding that can deflect blaster bolts. Lightsabers and magnetic sealing don't have to be the only things that can accomplish this.

While I am unsure of Jedi katanas (it is not stated clearly if they do and I have not read any of the literature), Sith swords could reflect and deflect blasters due to their alchemical construction and being Force-imbued.

I'm thinking the "can't be sundered" trait only applies to actual lightsabers, not any weapon that uses the Lightsaber skill.

In the Beta Updates, it says to add that "can't be sundered" line in the section of the Gear chapter that is strictly about lightsabers, while the Ancient Sword is in the melee weapon category. So in that case, I'd say an Ancient Sword can quite easily be sundered.

Personally, I probably wouldn't permit an Ancient Sword to be usable with Reflect, at least not without the Cortosis quality being present, but that's a GM ruling rather than anything in the book.

IIn the Beta Updates, it says to add that "can't be sundered" line in the section of the Gear chapter that is strictly about lightsabers, while the Ancient Sword is in the melee weapon category.

The line in the book is "for rules purposes", not for "skills" purposes or "talents" purposes or any other thing they could have put in there. While their intention may have been different (and they should definitely update if it was), the interpretation is rather unequivocal. If it is a rule that applies to lightsabers, then it applies to anything that uses the Lightsaber skill as well. While I can understand how you might want to make other interpretations on a narrative basis, as written I don't see how it allows for any other interpretation of the RAW.

Actually, looking at it again, it is exclusive to the lightsaber section, not weapons that use the lightsaber skill. That being said, as I said, a GM could apply it to ancient weapons as they were rather resilient due to being imbued with the Force.

Lightsabers (page 124): Add the following sentence as a seperate paragraph to the Lightsabers section, before the individual weapon entries. "Lightsabers can not be sundered."

Not "weapons that use the lightsaber skill can not be sundered".

Thanks everyone for answering my question. I really appreciate it.

Lightsabers (page 124): Add the following sentence as a seperate paragraph to the Lightsabers section, before the individual weapon entries. "Lightsabers can not be sundered."

Not "weapons that use the lightsaber skill can not be sundered".

The line in the book is "for rules purposes", not for "skills" purposes[....]

Again, the line may have been intended to refer to the the Shoto and the inclusion of the Ancient Sword may have been accidental, but per the RAW the Ancient Sword is a Lightsaber for rules purposes. And "cannot be sundered" is a rule that applies to Lightsabers. Again, I understand why people don't like the RAW and you're free to do what you want with your campaign, but the RAW is unambiguous.

Ancient Sword counts as a Lightsaber for rules purposes.

Lightsabers cannot be sundered (which is a rule).

Therefore, Ancient Swords cannot be sundered.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I would say that if lets you use Reflect, then, use Lightsaber skill, if not and without caring "how old is the weapons and what magik power has" melee.

Hope this helps

The talent I have the most trouble rationalizing with an ancient sword is actually saber throw.

There's a world of difference, to my mind, behind throwing a lightsaber and a sword. The sword has 1, maybe 2 cutting edges. The lightsaber can cut from practically any direction and angle. The lightsaber would encounter little to no resistance from anything it cuts, the sword would require much more force to sink into anything rather than bludgeon it.

Yeah, I know its a nice simple thing from a gameplay perspective, but the more I think about the concept of an ancient sword, the more I hate it. A lightsaber would never be wielded similarly to a physical blade, the blade of a lightsaber is just too different from a sharpened metal edge.

I'm sure I'm in the minority, and its really not a big deal, even from the perspective of the game as a whole, but it annoys me.

The talent I have the most trouble rationalizing with an ancient sword is actually saber throw.

I don't even like "Saber Throw" as a thing. Vader makes a desperate gimmick play in RotJ and suddenly it's a POWAAAH! Ugh.

Not every saber throw has to be in a boomerang-like arc, lightsaber spinning and such. Yoda throws a lightsaber and impales a trooper. Why can't the saber throw be used to throw the Ancient Sword in a way that utilizes the sword's properties?

Or...you know, telekinetically stabilize the sword while it arcs through the air. There's a reason there's a talent for it

Yoda throws a lightsaber

Speaking of things that should not be things. Oh look, he IS a great warrior after all! Ha ha! I guess we can disregard the most poignant moments of Ep V as Lucas takes a whiz on Irvin Kershner's grave.

Okay, done ranting, I promise...

Kershner's tears... I can feel them building... they give me focus... Make me STRONG!!!

Not every saber throw has to be in a boomerang-like arc, lightsaber spinning and such. Yoda throws a lightsaber and impales a trooper. Why can't the saber throw be used to throw the Ancient Sword in a way that utilizes the sword's properties?

Or...you know, telekinetically stabilize the sword while it arcs through the air. There's a reason there's a talent for it

I'm not saying its impossible, just the simulationist in me thinks it should at least be more difficult. (The simulationist is rarely right though, I prefer simplicity )