Flame weapons vs horde and a few more questions

By Aedwynn, in Deathwatch Rules Questions

Hi guys, I am somewhat new GM, so I thought to ask a few questions about rules to see your opinion.

1) As far as I know flame weapons deal 1/4x(range) + 1d5 vs hordes. But what about exceptionaly- and master-crafted flame weapons? I know they get bonuses vs regular enemies (increased difficulty for Agi test if I am not mistaken), but hordes do not test against flame weapons (rules says all effects are already included in hit formula)

2) Storm of Iron works with flame weapons and when firing on semi- or full- auto, so Frag grenades as well as frag rockets do not benefit from this rule when thrown/fired from regular launcher? ( I think only Cyclone missile launcher can fire on semi-auto)

3) When calculating Characteristic bonus, multiplier goes first, then additive. but what about cases when additive bonus isn't a multiplier of ten? For example, Space Marine Uriel has 15 Str bonus from his power armor, not 20. His natural Str is 45. If he had no Unnatural Str trait, calculation would be simple 45+15 = 60, so 6 StrB. But he has, so how end result will be?

Will it be

((45)div10 )x 2 + (15)div10 = 4x2 + 1 = 9 or

^double StrB ^ additive StrB

(45 +15)div10 + (45)div10 = 6+4 = 10

^normal StrB ^unnatural StrB

4) Can character use FP to heal during process of enemy resolving attack vs character?

F.e. player (10/22 wounds ) decides to use FP to heal himself when he sees that a hit that enemy stroke against him can not be parried/dodged and will result in 16 damage after TB/armor reduction, resulting in 0 wounds and some crit damage?

Edited by Aedwynn

1) You're thinking of Cleanse and Purify in terms of the penalty to the Agi test, which specifically calls out the effect it has on hordes (+1d5 hits). Master Crafted weapons have the same bonus on flame weapons they have on all weapons- +2 damage (Exceptional being +1). Remember, each hit needs to actually deal at minimum 1 damage to cause magnitude damage to the horde. Master crafted makes it more likely to do so.

2) Correct, flag grenades, missiles, sniper rifles las cannons, and many other single shot or thrown weapons do not qualify for this rule. The semi auto missile launcher is the cyclone missile launcher, which being mounted, requires terminator armour to use. Using it on semi auto would indeed trigger storm of iron.

3) Just use logic- it's not hard math, you don't need to add the extra steps, and all the multipliers applying before the additive bonuses mean is that the additive bonuses are not multiplied. In your example, the result is 10. Just add all the additive bonuses together, then put the bonus from unnatural on top of it. 45 + 15 is 60, so a bonus of 6, +4 for the unnatural characteristic. Note that the characteristic bonus is *not* the characteristic divided by 10, it is the tens digit of that characteristic. That is the number which is then multiplied by the unnatural characteristic. For example, a score of 45 (x3) has a bonus of 12, not 13.

The RAW and example provided both outline a method of calculation that would support your 4 x 2 + 1 = 9, making additive bonuses of +5 completely worthless in terms of characteristic bonuses to someone with an unnatural characteristic (despite being of normal benefit to those without), but again, to some extent logic has to come into play, and as those situations are not expressly covered by the examples, what I described above is what I would do, and I do not feel at all that it would be a violation of the rules as written or a houserule. Just pointing out that it could be argued the other way.

4) "A fate point can be used at any time, either on the character's own turn, or in reaction to the actions of another character. Spending a fate point is a free action." So, essentially, fate points can be used whenever free actions or reactions would take place. A fate point could thus be used in reaction to a player being attacked, certainly. However, if damage has already been rolled, using a fate point in reaction to it or as a free action would certainly and unarguably take place *after* the already rolled damage has been applied. So in this case, the character would be at crit 3, would suffer the effects of crit 3, and then could certainly use a fate point to heal. Just like dodging and parrying, you don't get to see how much damage is dealt before deciding if you want to do it. Note that as dodge and parry are also reactions, there could be no argument that had they used the fate point before rolling to dodge or parry, it would apply before the damage from the attack. An argument could be made that even if they had decided to heal as a response to having failed to dodge, it would apply first. You just can't wait until after damage is already rolled.

Edited by Dr. Quinn

1) I remember seeing a note about this somewhere, I'll post reference when I find it

3) div here means integer division, 45 div 10 is 4 no 4.5, so I guess I was right here.

4) FP heal does not remove crit damage IIRC. But burning FP does save character from death...barely.

Additional question

5) Astartes Weapon Mastery talent, it reduces total maluses to -30, or changes test modifier bracket from (+60/-60) to (+60/-30)? If latter, I can't imagine situation where it can be useful

6) when SM face fear test, it only reduces teams cohesion on failure? It can not force normal reaction to fear (flee for example) when cohesion drops to 0?

1: DQ is correct. (mmmmm DQ)

2: DQ is also correct.

3: The bonus from a marine's armor is not multiplied by Unnatural Strength. Only the Marine's base Strength is multiplied. The Armor bonus is added on at the end. Also, only the Characteristic Bonus (tens digit) is multiplied by Unnatural Characteristics.

4: No. This brings up so much rediculousness. You cannot interrupt an attack to heal with fate points. Either heal before the attack, or after. Otherwise your players are never going to ever be worried about health. What the "does not remove critical damage" is refering to is the effects of the critical wounds. You can heal the critical wounds, but just because you aren't into critical any longer doesn't mean your arm reattaches itself. Whatever effects trigger from critical wounds still apply, even if you heal above critical.

5: A character with Astartes Weapon Mastery talent may never have a penalty to use said weapon greater than -30 for the type of weapon chosen at the time the talent was taken. If an attack would have -40, the character counts it as -30 instead. This doesn't mean the penalties are maxed at -30. If you have a total of -40 penalties and +10 bonus your to hit is still -30, not -20. Calculate all bonuses/penalties and if they total more than -30, they become -30.

6: No. Space marines do not follow the normal rules for fear. Those are there for non space marines, such as normal humans, orks, etc. Instead, as described on page 277 of the DW:Core, they follow the "and they shall know no fear" rule. If in squad mode the marines take no penalties but the leader must make a WP (not a fear) test with modifiers as shown on table 9-6. If this test is failed, the team looses 1 point of cohesion per degree the test failed by. If in solo mode marines simply suffer a -10 to WP for each degree of fear present. The leader's test is taken once for the greatest level of fear causing character in one encounter, unless a character which causes greater fear joins in, then a new test is taken. Same thing for solo mode, only the highest fear present is used to calculate WP penalties.