Played a game today with 3 Deltas and Ion Cannons against Biggs, Luke and Dutch. It was a weird game, with very poor attack rolls in general near the beginning, but I somehow managed to Ion Luke for farther than the distance of the entire game board, about halfway down before he managed a k-turn and then from that end of the board all the way off the board from the Rebel Side. This was mainly because each turn no matter what the rolls were, i could only score the 1 damage from the Ion which he would regenerate with R5-P9. Biggs only ever fired once and never had a shot again, he got slowly ioned to death too. Dutch flew around firing his turret but most of his hits were evaded or just rolled poorly (even with TLs), and what little damage he did land wasn't enough (and never ioned me into a position that denied me an opportunity to shoot). All in all a weird game. Planning phase went quickly, as at least 1 ship per round got denied a dial.

so: ion cannon or hull upgrade?

Uhm… I think the title of the thread gives it away? Can you maybe be more specific if you're looking to start any real discussion?

Uhm… I think the title of the thread gives it away? Can you maybe be more specific if you're looking to start any real discussion?

I think he was asking for an opinion on which you think is the better use of 3 points for TIE Defender - not the specific list in question, here.

hmm, doesn't sound too bad. Ioning the enemy in the beginning, and use primary once you get the upper hand :-)

I'm not very good with the defender yet, but I believe it to be a great ship. Will run my 2 with ions next time.

Uhm… I think the title of the thread gives it away? Can you maybe be more specific if you're looking to start any real discussion?

I think he was asking for an opinion on which you think is the better use of 3 points for TIE Defender - not the specific list in question, here.

I figured, I just wanted to hear that from him. I would think that given my choice of list, it's already pretty evident what one I find to be the better use of points. But, to objectivize it:

Hull upgrade: one more point for something firing dead last in the turn.

Ion Cannon: Deny Range 3 bonus evade, shut down some enemy tactics, force suboptimal movement options, punish formation flight, set enemy up so you know where they're moving and can arc-dodge even at PS 1, potentially force opponent off the board, generally limit incoming fire, force them to plow into asteroids, reduce hypermobility of Fat Falcons.

Oh and bonus points for owning 3 Defenders… means I own three Predators too. Hee heeeeee...

Oh and bonus points for owning 3 Defenders… means I own three Predators too. Hee heeeeee...

Yup, I got myself three Defenders for that, too. Well...that and...

• Holy crap does a flight of three TIE Defenders look awesome on the table at the same time!
• I was thinking exactly the same thing you were with the post - triple Delta with Ions sounds...amusing. Definitely want to try that at some point.
• Three 'predators'. Did I mention I have three 'predator' cards? Yeah, I've got three 'predators'. It's like the Howlrunner...you can bring with you!

**** son. Runnin' 'em canon!

I have 3 Defenders, and now I'm intrigued by the....hilarity.

I like the concept of the list a lot but I feel like while it can beat 3-4 ship rebels, it will really struggle against swarms and phantoms.

I have three defenders and I might have to give this a shot.

I've run 3 Deltas with Ions several times before and each time they have been ripped apart by my opponent not had any luck but the potential fun if it works sounds great just like the OP's game.

I noticed the problem rose when facing large ships that require two ions to have effect. Could have been bad dice luck but can't remember exactly. Need to try this again a few times some day

Oh and bonus points for owning 3 Defenders… means I own three Predators too. Hee heeeeee...

Yup, I got myself three Defenders for that, too. Well...that and...

• Holy crap does a flight of three TIE Defenders look awesome on the table at the same time!
• I was thinking exactly the same thing you were with the post - triple Delta with Ions sounds...amusing. Definitely want to try that at some point.
• Three 'predators'. Did I mention I have three 'predator' cards? Yeah, I've got three 'predators'. It's like the Howlrunner...you can bring with you!

This is the first ship I immediately bought three of, for all the same reasons. I can't wait to try it against a Fat Faclon or Phantom list in good hands.

I've run 3 Deltas with Ions several times before and each time they have been ripped apart by my opponent not had any luck but the potential fun if it works sounds great just like the OP's game.

What types of opponents ripped you apart, what was the lists big weakness as you see it?

The main issue I had was the Defenders poor-ish dial the white 4k can be blocked when the opponent is aware of this trick, could never get consecutive hits to get in behind a miniature a escort it off the board. Also poor pilot skill doesn't help low PS is good for blocking but not really how I want to fly these ships.

I've played the list against z-swarms, 3 E's and B-wing builds.

I've given up on running 3 defenders and now generally use Rexlar with HLC and other imp ships.

The lists problem is its ability to deal damage. It's packing no more dice than a 3 xwing list, but with none of the offensive buffs like wedge or defensive buffs like Biggs. It's also suffering vs a 3 xwing list in pilot skill too, which drops its jousting value down despite its white K.

The 9 points invested in ion are only handy if you can control your entire opponents list, as then picking them off one damage at a time isn't a problem. As soon as they can reliably counter your ion (high evade ships) or have enough ships to continue to function (tie swarm) the defenders are quickly outclassed. You can continue to ion and only deal 3 damage max per turn, or rely on your primary and be at an offensive disadvantage.

Against 3-4 ship rebel builds it should do well. Against arc dodging high evade imperials or swarms I think you'll see what Baggy is talking about

I can second That One Guy. 3 Delta with Ion Cannon can be a very fun list to fly. When I used that list, I was against Wedge, Biggs, 2x Blue and try to come from everywhere. I started by Ionizing Biggs, which force my opponent to either fly predictably or break formation, he chose the later. 2 things, 1- Having Wedge on the board without anyway to shoot at someone can be very frustrating for your opponent. 2- Ion cannon is a nightmare for B-Wings, their 1 evade dice have little chance to dodge your 3 attack dice.

The strategy was this one: If there was a ship that I knew I could not destroy this turn but could take out of the combat for the next round (facing outside or stopping on a asteroid), I would use the Ion Cannon. If I was shooting at range 3 and my odds of doing more damage than 1 anyway were low, I would use the Ion Cannon. Othere than that, I shotted with all the might of our main cannon.

I think a good analogy for 3 Delta with a Ion Cannon is a Wolf Pack. You fly around your enemy, spot the weak ship, one of you shoot him with a Ion Cannon to slow him down and the other 2 come in for the kill.

I believe I have won only 1 game out of 7 with my x3 Defenders with Ion Cannons List and ironically enough that was when I didn't fire the Ion Cannons even once the entire game! On the flip side, that was when the ship was first previewed so perhaps I should revisit it and give it another try.

I am surprised that anyone was able to consistently ionize X-Wings as the rebels can move 1 forward while the T/D has only a 2 forward, you shouldn't you overshoot sooner or later?

I have considered the exact same list but have not fielded it yet. I will have to correct that!

Oh and bonus points for owning 3 Defenders… means I own three Predators too. Hee heeeeee...

Yup, I got myself three Defenders for that, too. Well...that and...

• Holy crap does a flight of three TIE Defenders look awesome on the table at the same time!
• I was thinking exactly the same thing you were with the post - triple Delta with Ions sounds...amusing. Definitely want to try that at some point.
• Three 'predators'. Did I mention I have three 'predator' cards? Yeah, I've got three 'predators'. It's like the Howlrunner...you can bring with you!

The only thing that looks cooler than 3 Defenders, is 4 Defenders!

Or 10 Defenders in Epic. Now that would be funny. Sadly I only have 4.

Someone said his friend planned to have eight with HLC and i envy him.

I ran this list in the Ontario Store Wars Major at Black Knight Games. I had so much fun with it I'm thinking of running it again!!

I fly two defenders with ion cannons alongside Soontir with PTL and TC. 98 points and works like a charm.

I would be tempted to try:

Delta+ionx2

Scimitar bomber + 2x ion pulse

Academy tie

You get the same output as 3 defenders with a higher punch for large ships and a PS 1 blocker. I'm sure it's just not efficient enough but if your goal is to ion ships and then swoop in for the kill this isn't too shabby.