Hey everybody,

I built the following lists and want your opinion of them

1. List

Tie Defender - Rexler Brath, Stealth Device, Outmaneuver, Heavy Laser Cannon

Tie Advanced - Darth Vader, Squad Commander

Tie Fighter - Dark Curse, Stealth Device

2. List

Tie Bomber - Major Rhymer, Stealth Device, Veteran Instincts, 2x Advanced Proton Torp.

Tie Bomber - Sciminar Squadron Pilot, Concussion Missile, Homing Missile

Lambda Shuttle - Colonel Jendon, ST 321, Darth Vader

Thanks for every comment.

Drop Vader in List 1. TIE Advanceds are awful ships. Put Predator on Brath instead of Outmaneuver, same cost but with the HLC being able to reroll without target locking is better than reducing an agility IF you're outside of the defenders arc.

here is my predator squad:

vader + predator + cluster missile + engine upgrade

black squadron + predator + hull upgrade (x3)

havnt tried it yet, but looking forward to it.

Concerning list one, I think Rexler Brath will attract too much fire: Dark Curse+Stealth Device (while a good combo) scream don't attack me because I'm hard to hit and only have 2 attack dice; Vader is very good with SL but needs more ship to boost than one (I'm not really counting Dark Curse because offensively speaking, he have nothing more than Vader himself, so why boost him instead of the dark Lord). So, if Brath get all the attention, I don't think he'll get more use out of outmaneuver, and once he's down, the rest of the team won't be able to do much.

My suggestions is first the obvious, to switch Outmaneuver on Brath for Predator. What this mean is that Brath will always have a mini-TL giving you more chance to trigger his ability (Focus action+Predator) and remove the need to take Squad Leader on Vader. On Vader, I would switch Squad Leader for Outmaneuver, this way, you can fly him by himself (no need to keep at range 2 of your wingmates) and if your opponent decide to concentrate on Brath, Vader will benfit from Outmaneuver to reduce the opponent defense (which will help him do more damage, the one thing Vader has trouble with). I would also give him Engine Upgrade so he have more ease to trigger Outmaneuver by doing barrel roll+boost. To free the points, I would remove the Stealth Device on both Dark Curse and Brath (It's not as useful as people think). Finally, I would switch Dark Curse for Backstabber or Mauler Mithel to gain more firepower, but Dark Curse can be a pain so it can work.

Classic Rexler Brath + Predator + HLC

Sneaky Vader + Outmaneuver + Engine Upgrade

Backstabber

I've heard that Defenders really like hull, shield, and engine upgrades.

I'd consider one of those in the first list instead of stealth device.

Probably EU, if you're running Outmaneuver.

Contrary to other posters, I don't think that Vader doesn't belong in that list; if at all possible, use him to give Rexler TL+focus, using the TL with priority to modify your dice so that you have a better chance of saving your focus to activate his ability.

PtL can do the same thing, but Defenders hate stress.

I dont think hull/shield upgrade is better than the stealth device on the defender. Sure, stealth is always a gamble, while with the upgrades you get an guaranteed extra, but with the 3 defense dice the defender is one of the better platforms for stealth and gives you a good chance of getting more out of your stealth.

In general I think you are stacking way to much upgrades on ships. The stealth device is not worth it on the bomber, the chance of being hit is considerably higher, and with the 2 adv you will probably be wanting target locks and not focus (for more evades). Sure Jendon can handoff 1 Target Lock, but only at range 1 and you have 2 ships screaming for TL's. Also having 2 not to maneuverable ships staying close to another not to maneuverable ship is making the whole setup very vulnerable for flankers and other ships dancing around you. For the price of half of the upgrades you could easily get another ship, which in most cases is what you want. The empire goes for numbers, upgrades belong more to the rebels (and even there its often not worth it). HLC on the defender however is where it belongs.

I actually am trying out a list almost exactly like Red Castle's suggestion, though I went with VI and Proton Rockets on Vader instead.

I'm hoping Proton Rockets put Vader somewhere back on the map until the Adv fix, and I think they might based on my experience so far. EU has always been important (and great) on him.

The inclusion of Backstabber plus the rockets with. Brath means three nasty threats and you opponent will need to pick his or her poison.

Vader can work.

Backstabber > DC < Night Beast = BSP + EPT

3 ships with Vader as one of them is risky.

If defenders hate stress so much just add Yorr or a BSP + wingman.

Drop Vader in List 1. TIE Advanceds are awful ships. Put Predator on Brath instead of Outmaneuver, same cost but with the HLC being able to reroll without target locking is better than reducing an agility IF you're outside of the defenders arc.

How about be constructive instead of just telling him to drop it because you hate it... your hatred of the Advanced doesn't make It a bad ship.. and contrary to your opinion... it is a good ship.. especially Vader. Note the others that are suggesting Vader options...

Personally I like both builds, but would give Vader the Outmaneuver, with that EU opion, or the predator option, and a secondary missile... just makes him more versitile and beefy....

I just put together the same list as 1 but with predator on Rex as others have suggested. I just want to run a list with Vader.

I can verify that Rexler Brath + HLC + Predator with Vader + Swarm Tactics is a lethal combination. I ran with a Scimatar Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges + Hull upgrade. I might drop the Hull upgrade and swap in a Proton Bomb. The key....keep Rexler Brath alive. If you loose him, you loose pretty much all your offense.

I can verify that Rexler Brath + HLC + Predator with Vader + Swarm Tactics is a lethal combination. I ran with a Scimatar Squadron Pilot + Seismic Charges + Hull upgrade. I might drop the Hull upgrade and swap in a Proton Bomb. The key....keep Rexler Brath alive. If you loose him, you loose pretty much all your offense.

That's why I suggested giving more offensive possibility to Vader with Outmaneuver and EU and switching Dark curse for Backstabber, this way every ship can be lethal so if you lose one earlier than expected, especially Rexler who is the prime target, the others can still pack a punch. It also makes each ship independant from each other and allow you to close in from everywhere.

I actually am trying out a list almost exactly like Red Castle's suggestion, though I went with VI and Proton Rockets on Vader instead.

I'm hoping Proton Rockets put Vader somewhere back on the map until the Adv fix, and I think they might based on my experience so far. EU has always been important (and great) on him.

The inclusion of Backstabber plus the rockets with. Brath means three nasty threats and you opponent will need to pick his or her poison.

Not convince about VI on Vader since my area hasn't been victim of the high PS bid, but I can definetly see the reason if Whisper is present in yours.

As for Proton Rockets, I can't wait to receive my Rebel Aces packs so I can try it on Vader. Definetly a good option on Vader: a 5 dice Focus+Target Lock is not something you can ignore, you can potentially one-shot a X-Wing!

I actually am trying out a list almost exactly like Red Castle's suggestion, though I went with VI and Proton Rockets on Vader instead.

I'm hoping Proton Rockets put Vader somewhere back on the map until the Adv fix, and I think they might based on my experience so far. EU has always been important (and great) on him.

The inclusion of Backstabber plus the rockets with. Brath means three nasty threats and you opponent will need to pick his or her poison.

Not convince about VI on Vader since my area hasn't been victim of the high PS bid, but I can definetly see the reason if Whisper is present in yours.

As for Proton Rockets, I can't wait to receive my Rebel Aces packs so I can try it on Vader. Definetly a good option on Vader: a 5 dice Focus+Target Lock is not something you can ignore, you can potentially one-shot a X-Wing!

I played him with Outmaneuver last night and think that will be the way I go. It's not so much that Whisper is more present but that a lot of 8's and 9's go with VI to get past Whisper. I ran Soontir at my last tourney and I think the only game where he had the highest PS was the last game of four.

I played him with Outmaneuver last night and think that will be the way I go. It's not so much that Whisper is more present but that a lot of 8's and 9's go with VI to get past Whisper. I ran Soontir at my last tourney and I think the only game where he had the highest PS was the last game of four.

Ouch man! I guess I'm lucky to be in a environment that is not so much scared of the Phantom and play more varied lists that we think can be fun instead of win at all cost. There is some time that we see VI on a PS8 ship, but on a PS9, I'm not sure I ever saw it.

2. List

Tie Bomber - Major Rhymer, Stealth Device, Veteran Instincts, 2x Advanced Proton Torp.

Tie Bomber - Sciminar Squadron Pilot, Concussion Missile, Homing Missile

Lambda Shuttle - Colonel Jendon, ST 321, Darth Vader

Thanks for every comment.

Concerning list 2, I think it suffers from too many upgrade on the same ships. From my experience, Bombers can get blow up pretty fast so if you want to take a second ordnance, I would suggest going for a cheap one, like a Flechette Torpedo or a Seismic Charge, this way if it gets destroyed before launching it, you won't lose as much. 6 Hull can be hard to chew through, but without any shields, the Bomber is vulnerable to the early crit that can screw your plan: Blinded Pilot and Munition Failure are two exemple. Also, I would give Weapon Engineer to the Shuttle: When your role is to give TL to friendly units, Weapon Engineer really help so you can keep one for you and more choice at the start of the Combat phase. Overall, I would try to bring more body to the table, something like this:

Colonel Jendon + ST-321 + Weapon Engineer

Scimitar Squadron + Flechette Torpedo + Concussion Missiles

Scimitar Squadron + Flechette Torpedo + Concussion Missiles

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

Alternatively, if you really want to use Major Rhymer, I would do something like this:

Colonel Jendon + ST-321 + Weapon Engineer

Major Rhymer + Cluster Missiles + Advanced Proton Torpedoes + Marksmanship

Captain Jonus + Flechette Torpedo + Seismic Charges + Predator

The ability of the Major allows him to fire the Cluster at range 3, combined with Marksmanship and Jonus Rerolls, You are making two 3 attack dice per round that has very good odds of hitting. The idea is to close in at range 3 and shoot your Clusters, next round once in range 1-2, you fire your advanced Torpedo. Jonus is there to boost the ordnance attacks of the Major (especially the first one, APT doesn't really need reroll unless you are very unlucky), but with Predator, he can fight on his own once you break formation. While I don't think this list is competitive (there is too many things that can go wrong), it should be fun to play.

I'm changing list 1 into

Rexler Brath (37) - outmaneuver (3) - HLC (7) - 47

Darth Vader (29) - SL (2) - Concussion Missile (4) - 35

Back Stabber (16) - Targeting Comp. (2) - 18

so i can use Vaders SL for both ships, and he has an addition missile for attacking so he can use his both actions also for himself

The problem with squad leader on Vader is that SL costs you an action to use it, it doesn't give you a free action. So you're giving up an action on Vader, a pilot who should be the focus of your list, to let someone else take an action. And are they really going to use that action better than Vader himself? And even if they do, you've just spent 30 points to support that ship, leaving only a single real threat. Kill Rexler and the rest of your list is just two mediocre-at-best ships that probably aren't going to be enough to win the game.

(This is also the problem with squad leader in general, but occasionally you can find a situation where it almost works.)

I don't get people's obsession of predator on black swuadron pilots. For 1 more measly point you could just take a squint l

The problem with squad leader on Vader is that SL costs you an action to use it, it doesn't give you a free action. So you're giving up an action on Vader, a pilot who should be the focus of your list, to let someone else take an action. And are they really going to use that action better than Vader himself? And even if they do, you've just spent 30 points to support that ship, leaving only a single real threat. Kill Rexler and the rest of your list is just two mediocre-at-best ships that probably aren't going to be enough to win the game.

(This is also the problem with squad leader in general, but occasionally you can find a situation where it almost works.)

While in the case of this team, I suggested to switch Squad Leader for outmaneuver on Vader, I think that it (Squad Leader) synergise very well with Vader.

First, he's not the focus in this list, Rexler with HLC and Outmaneuver (that he probably won't use) is. With Vader, you can allow him to do a 4 Dice Focus+Target Lock attack every round, or keep his focus for defense. So yeah, I personally think that Brath with his HLC will use that action better than Vader with his 2 dice. Second, he's not forced to use it every turn and there is also Backstabber with TC now. Which means that if the situation needs it, he can allow him to take a Target Lock at PS9 or Barrel Roll out of sight to get his attack bonus, again a potentially better choice than Vader.

I personally love Vader with Squad Leader. Unlike what you think, I think there is a lot of ship that can benefit more of the second action than him: Interceptors, Defenders, Bombers, Firesprays. And what makes it wonderful is that it happens at PS9, so most enemy ship will have moved. You will have a bigger picture of who's in trouble or who have a better shot. Like I said earlier, you are not forced to use it every round, so if your opponent is focusing on Vader this turn, you can keep your second action to focus+evade this turn, while not packing a punch, the Tie Advanced is one of the most resilient craft in the Empire. But the possibilty to allow another craft to make a second action at PS9 can be game changing: Making that barrel Roll or boost that put you out of fire, that boost that allow you to get a shot at Range 1, that focus or evade you can get even if you bumped this turn, etc...

A better action economy. A second action on a ship is always good. A second action on a ship of your choice at range 2 of Vader at the end of the maneuver phase is even better.

I don't get people's obsession of predator on black swuadron pilots. For 1 more measly point you could just take a squint l

You don't get the reroll with the squint... and you field more TIEs that way. But if you sacrifice points you can have fewer ships and all have Predator as well.. but more ships equals more targets for the enemy, and more buzzing around for you...

Also, means you dont have to get Howlrunner in there and have everyone sticking to her like glue

Hey everybody,

I built the following lists and want your opinion of them

1. List

Tie Defender - Rexler Brath, Stealth Device, Outmaneuver, Heavy Laser Cannon

Tie Advanced - Darth Vader, Squad Commander

Tie Fighter - Dark Curse, Stealth Device

One issue that I see with this list is that you've got half of your firepower tied up in Brath, which makes him a very tempting first target.

You don't get the reroll with the squint...

But you don't need it. 3 dice with no re-roll is equal to or better than 2 dice with a re-roll in all situations. The only thing the predator BSP offers is PS 4 vs. PS 1.

Meh... reroll is always nice, no matter the number of atk dice. Also, the way dice roll.. I disagree with that 3 without are better than 2 with.. dice are not to be trusted, rerolls are always somethin I like.

That said, I do fly my squints without TC or much in the way in rerolls.. I prefer PtL on the guys that can use it, mainly Fel and Turr... but this is how I fly them, and will spend a couple turns stressed if I have to, just to stay out of arcs.. but that's how i fly them..

I disagree with that 3 without are better than 2 with..

You aren't allowed to disagree about this. The math indisputably says that you are wrong.