To be honest I don't understand the animosity most players seem to have for Theoden. His threat of 12 is rather high but his ability either in solo or multiplayer play is invaluable. Maybe its just the way I play, but if I'm running a mono-tactics deck solo he is the only option I have for a 3 willpower hero and that is the department tactics sadly lacks. He also boosts my other hero's up to 2 or 3 which can be critical. In multiplayer he is even more effective giving a global bonus to all players with tactics hero'. Even if there role isn't primarily for questing in tight spots or for the final push you might need all hero's to commit.

So I guess I want to hear some valid critics of Theoden and why I shouldn't use him. Thanks

Theoden is fine in his niche.

He's just for mono tactics.

In solo & multiplayer a like; you just have to build around him.

I think people were just a bit disapointed when they finally got such a big character from the books at the time.

And expected a more ... generally useful card.

In multiplayer, Tactics doesn't have to quest. It is not is job.

Since he has 3 willpower, you might want to quest with him, but then you lose the 3 atk and 2 def.

He has sentinel, but having only 2 def, 4 hit point and being rohan doesn't help him.

He has 3 atk and being in tactics sphere might help...

You can gain more with other tactics hero that quest but again, if you're questing with tactics hero, either you're doing it wrong, or your teamates are doing something wrong (usually). Most of the tactics hero have ability that are use when attacking / defending, so you are wasting them if you quest with them.

Legolas can "quest" with 2, and has 3 less threat with ranged. The choice is easy.

You only use him when the other teamates don't use enough willpower, or your playing around rohan (still not very powerfull) or you have a very specific idea.

He is like Caldara. You don't chose him as your second or third wheel, but as the main idea you are building your deck around. But Caldara has a unique ability, not him...

Trained for war is not what I have first in mind when playing with him...

The reason is lack of readying abilities. So imagine you're playing with Theoden, Merry and Hama and you need a big quest push. You quest with all you can for 8, maybe 10 if you got Bofur of EotMM. But then all your heroes are exhausted and can't do anything with them. The only way I can see him working as a solo general deck is in Mono Tactics with songs of travel to play Spirit cards to compensate for questing and readying effects, but that sounds too complicated to be effective. I'd rather just run Tactics and Spirit in my heroes.

Quest with him and you don't benefit from his other stats. High starting threat for meh questing power. All but 2 tactic characters are made for combat not questing (Thalin/Merry), ps why would you quest with Legolas for 2 when you can attack multiple times for 2 progress tokens. He doesn't mesh even with other Rohan characters since, Rohan favors attacking the staging area but his threat is too high. His team benefit is minimal, even a joke when compaired to Dain or Leadership Boromir.

A viable deck with Theoden that can take on the harder non-nightmare quests doesn't exist yet sadly. His passive is just too weak, maybe if he also didn't have to commit to the quest he would be useful but righ now he is not. There is nothing that he does well that others dont do better. He is not Spirit Pippin bad but he is just as redudant.

The only good reason to play him is to admire his amazing Magali artwork. Hopefully we will get a better hero version in Treason of Saruman.

He's not bad, but he's definitely not optimal. There are really 2 arguments against him:

1) He doesn't synergize well because in order to make the most use of his stats, you need to get some readying, but that takes away from his ability.

2) There's generally something better out there.

This does not mean that you can't build good decks with him though. He's just a lot better used in multiplayer. You use him to Make Thalin worth questing with and use his Tactics resources to help out paying for awesome Tactics stuff. Then you either make this deck Mono-Tactics or splash in some Spirit and make this the true questing deck. Then you can splash some Tactics in other decks, especially a Hobbit deck with Merry, to make more use of Theoden's ability.

I totally agree that his use is limited, but that doesn't mean he's bad. He's just not as versatile as his numbers make him out to be. If you really try, I'm sure you can find some great uses for him, like MightyRauros did: http://theendmaybedark.blogspot.com/2014/09/quest-2-conflict-at-carrock-re-do.html

I disagree to most comments allready given.

Theoden is my nr 3 tactics hero with 3.81% after merry and thalin. I really like him because I think he does very wel in most orc quests mixed with thalin. I do like to run him in the next combo (eowyn, thalin, theoden). It is pretty high with 30 start cost, but i think that my 9 base willpower and the 2 tactic resources run pretty well.

All orc based quests can be won with this combo. Because most orcs only have 2/3 hitpoints. It isnt that hard to just quest through and let the majority of the combat be won by spearmans/spears. I do like him in solo and in multiplayer and if you like to play with Merry, Thalin and maby even Boromir I think there are many decks that would do the job. In multiplayer you are even able to boost other players while that's not even your concern. You have a nice questing deck with killing options to 2/3 hp enemies seems pretty solid. Next to that if there are objectives that keep heroes ready. Theoden is a nice choice.

I like him!

Grtz Jban

Yeah I understand you definitely need to build around him but that is true for most every hero you play. His starting threat is a little high and probably the most valid criticism of him. For a mono tactics solo deck though it is very hard to leave him out. I think that if the Rohan trait gets a little more developed in the defensive department he will definitely become more valuable.

MAYBE I could see him with say, Gimli (or Thalin for lower threat) and Oin. That lineup has good questing from the start and is technically a Spirit Tactics deck, you can include spirit stuff naturally, though you'd need resource acceleration. For that you can have zigil miner and stargazer, hidden cache, and then a bunch of dwarf allies. Make gimli strong, Baruk Khazad! and all that good stuff. But even then Theoden has a minor role and there's no reason to add him, unless the extra willpower and a 3 WP tactics hero proves essential. Could be, maybe I'll try it.

I used to run an Eomer/Eowyn/Theoden Rohan deck that did pretty well. You do need to think about readying effects to make best use of Thoeden's stats. Steed of the Mark is a good way to do it. The basic idea was that Eowyn/Theoden quest, Thedoen readies, some chump blocker dies and Eomer kills everything. I also was running Arwen Undomiel in case I needed to give Theoden a defense boost.

I'm considering building a Eomer/Hama/Theoden tactics Rohan deck with Trained for War. The idea being that you can still quest okay if you are not playing TfW in that turn, and if you do you can quest really hard. Naturally you'll have all the best that Tactics has to offer as well, so you should do pretty well in combat. It seems good, in theory. Probably the next deck I build after I'm done toying around with Silvan.

I have used Theoden in many deck for multiplayer games.

It's a good hero.

Like said awp832, Theoden works fine with steed of the mark.

If you add Theodred :

1) Theoden and Theodred quest

2) Theoden receive the ressource from Theodred

3) Theoden readies by using this ressource for Steed of the mark

In a mono tactic deck like Theoden/Hama/Merry (or another hero with 2 willpower) :

you can go to quest with Merry and Theoden. Play Thicket of spear in order to avoid any attack from ennemies. Then attack one ennemie with Hama in order to return thicket of spear in your hand. Next turn same sequence

It works fine in multiplayer games.

And if a partner could give two ressources to this deck, you can play Hammer stroke in the same turn.

Then all ennemis are engaged by this deck, all attack are avoided and you have quest at 6 + the willpower of the other player.

We have defeat stone of Erech and Massing at osgiliath in four player game with this deck

Give a good reason to take Theoden over Merry in a non-thematic deck.

I could just as easily say "give a good reason to take Caldara over Glorfindel in a non-Caldara deck." So what? She has her place. So does Theoden. He certainly doesn't fit into "just any" deck, but everyone in this thread is agreeing on that. He is not the only hero to be built that way.

Give a good reason to take Theoden over Merry in a non-thematic deck.

1. Theoden is more sturdy with his 4 hit-points

2. Readying Theoden gives many more options than Merry

3. Theoden quests for 4 (with 2 tactic questers for example Thalin, Boromir), for 5 with 3 tactics questers.

4. Theoden is a team-player hero in regard of questing, defense. Merry is only useful as a team-player hero in regard of attack. So if you want to help your crew with mainly questing and defense, Theoden is the better pick.

Seems like enough motivations to take Theoden above Merry is a certain amount of decks.

Grtz, Jban

When a solo player want to try mono-tac, Theoden is the only choice, the second hero should be Merry, and the third hero may be Legolas, Bard or Gimli.

When a solo player want to try mono-tac, Theoden is the only choice, the second hero should be Merry, and the third hero may be Legolas, Bard or Gimli.

But even with that Boost I dont think there will be enough will power to be successful deck. Maybe again certain quest yes but not majority. Did you really try it solo?

I did. Medicore quests are doable unless you get swarmed with locations. If you draw decent amount of enemies, then it's all good - you always can immediately engage them and deal with them.

When a solo player want to try mono-tac, Theoden is the only choice, the second hero should be Merry, and the third hero may be Legolas, Bard or Gimli.

But even with that Boost I dont think there will be enough will power to be successful deck. Maybe again certain quest yes but not majority. Did you really try it solo?

I only try some of the quests, most of them are easy ones, when there are 3 or more location, it almost means the end come.

And mono-tac decks are too slow compared with Dwarves, outlands or Caldara decks.