Wow, whoever wrote that needs to have their head removed from whatever dark place it's nestled in...

That would be Kevin J Anderson. And yes, the line of people waiting to help remove his head is long indeed.

(Side note - what the hell does PEACH stand for?)

Please Examine And Critique Honestly

Though I question the last part in relation to this thread, since a certain degree of "honesty" apparently is not appreciated given responses to critiques made.

Edit: In light of this, I've removed my remarks from this thread giving my honest thoughts about the proposed house rule as they quite obviously weren't welcomed or wanted.

.

Please Examine And Critique Honestly

Though I question the last part in relation to this thread, since a certain degree of "honesty" apparently is not appreciated given responses to critiques made.

Wow, whoever wrote that needs to have their head removed from whatever dark place it's nestled in...

That would be Kevin J Anderson. And yes, the line of people waiting to help remove his head is long indeed.

(Side note - what the hell does PEACH stand for?)

Please Examine And Critique Honestly

Though I question the last part in relation to this thread, since a certain degree of "honesty" apparently is not appreciated given responses to critiques made.

Apparently DM is still stewing over a simple argument, to the point of childishly sniping in a fairly dead thread.

Apparently he is also jealous that other people's feedback was of great interest and changes were made in response; whereas his hostile, arbitrary, and illogical feedback wasn't accepted.

DM needs to get over himself.

Removed as my critique/feedback is obviously not welcomed by the OP.

DM, you're the one who began all the hostility. When I didn't accept your argument, you took it personally and called me "obsessive". Rather than accepting that you'd made your point and move on, you decided to stick around and berate. You do that a lot when people don't agree with you.

And now you're lying...simply lying. I took other people's input, but not yours, and that clearly rankles you, otherwise you wouldn't keep lying about it. You do realize, don't you, that even if I ask for a critique I'm under no obligation to accept everyone's? That some people's critique is more valuable than others and I get to be the judge of that? I was already aware of, and have discounted (for now) your opinion on this matter before I wrote the OP. Repeating your point belligerently, and now lying about not taking any critique, is just trolling on your part.

Edit: lost in all this is that not once did you address any of the points that were leading me down what you consider to be an incorrect path. If you were really interested in a discussion, as opposed to a serial-pontification, all you'd have to do is address those points. Instead all you've done is stamp your foot and shout NO!

As noted earlier, since my honest critique/thoughts are not welcomed by the OP, I've edited/removed my posts about such. So by all means, carry on as you've done.

Many people, myself included, commented that we didn't think it was necessary, but that didn't stop us from providing ideas on how the power could be brought in line with the existing mechanics.

There is a difference between critiques and dismisal.

Whafrog: You have the beta now correct? Do you see what I mean about not wanting to outstrip Unleash? Since the push suggestion only requires force rating 1+.

Also, Have you thought about perhaps making this a special GM awarded talent? Something that is less bound by the move power, and something more akin to a specialization-less talent that could be awarded by the GM as training? Just an alternative idea.

As noted earlier, since my honest critique/thoughts are not welcomed by the OP, I've edited/removed my posts about such. So by all means, carry on as you've done.

You keep one-upping yourself in childishness. Your opinion is/was valued, here and on other threads, and certainly other people had a right to see it and make up their own minds. You just decided that disagreement wasn't tolerable. It's your lack of tolerance of disagreement that is the issue here, not your actual opinion.

And now, of course, this ruse allows you to avoid having to address the points that are driving my opinion.

Whafrog: You have the beta now correct? Do you see what I mean about not wanting to outstrip Unleash? Since the push suggestion only requires force rating 1+.

Also, Have you thought about perhaps making this a special GM awarded talent? Something that is less bound by the move power, and something more akin to a specialization-less talent that could be awarded by the GM as training? Just an alternative idea.

Yes, I have F&D now, and I do see what you mean in relation to Unleash. That said, the basic Move power would appear to *already* surpass Unleash...for two force pips you can throw one B1 into another (only an Easy Discipline check required), and presumably do 10 points of damage to both automatically. If anything I feel like my alternate pulled it back somewhat.

Here's the crux of it for me and the point of this whole thread (and maybe we can get back on track): if somebody says they'd like to use Move in a Force Push manner, I would like to be able to adjudicate it in a consistent way. By consistent I mean across multiple sessions so I don't have to reinvent it every time; but also consistent with the way it's presented in the media, as a short concussive wave.

The latter presents side issues not addressed by the current Move mechanics:

- range is Short

- the Silhouette of the target should be irrelevant to how much damage is caused

- minions are almost always knocked down (and killed)

- rivals are almost always knocked down (though not necessarily killed or damaged)

- nemeses/PC-types are almost always pushed back, even if they take no damage

- nemeses/PC-types can sometimes counter a Push

So, how to adjudicate that in a consistent way, and keep the PT/TCW flavour?

It's not an easy question, complicated by the ambiguity of the interaction of a power like move and minion groups (do you need magnitude, strength, if you do use magnitude on 2 out of four minions, can you use a move power check to deal damage to two of them with the other two, thus dealing the equivalent of 4 hits?)

I think for my games when this has come up, I have (and I could be miss remembering) treated this as a move check that just deals the damage. I assume that throwing the enemy into the ground is enough to deal the damage.

In play example:

Stan!: So how far away are those battle droids?

Phil: They are at short range, about 5 meters down the hall way.

Stan!: Ok. I reach my hand out and force thrust them (makes check, obtains 3 force points and 2 successes, and 3 advantage). I use the extra force point to deal an additional damage. So that's 13 damage. Can I knock them down with the three advantage?

Phil: Ok. You outstretch your hand and a ripple of the force thrusts them to the ground. Two of them are crushed under the force and the third is thrown to the ground, with sparks flying.

Now that is just using the move power RAW (with again those grey areas of strength and magnitude. For the purposes of this, I made it only require the strength point, and no three stoodging it by knocking their heads together. I think that you just need to codify what works for your game, stick with it, and then if a situation comes up that shows the decision doesn't fly, make an adjustment then.

There's nothing wrong fundamentally with making a uniquely stat'd push option, just that it kinda avoids the larger issue with move and where you as GM want to draw the line. There was some other thread where the question was posed, and at least three different opinions were there, so I don't think there is a right or wrong way. just do it your way.

Doesn't that seem more powerful than Unleash?

initially, but that's the breaks with unleash.

Unleash is a power that requires some serious investment to gain in power, but once it does, it's actually quite strong.

IMO the most powerful aspect of unleash is that it deals damage just for acheiving advatage on the roll, not actually by spending it, so you can crit/strain blast minions to death pretty easily.

Though I actually think unleash IS WEAK for a FR 3+ power. I don't think damage is the answer, but it does need something.

But that's besides the point. Playing the power as written can't be stepping on another power's toes any more than what the game's designers might have intended. And if you feel that way, then use your push application. Like I said, what you have drafted after the changes looks very reasonable to me. Is it perfect? probably not. but reasonable indeed.

I'll settle for reasonable Thanks for the input.

Stupid doubt. Far away from Mario's princess and a fruit... what means PEACH? XD

See Post #52

Stupid doubt. Far away from Mario's princess and a fruit... what means PEACH? XD