This "peach" acronym is new to me, I had trouble typing it seriously

EDIT: this is the current iteration of the application of Move. I've left the original OP below.

As either an adjunct to the current first Control upgrade in the Move power, or as a separate, parallel Control upgrade (for 10XP):

The Force user can push targets by making an opposed Discipline check against Athletics, Coordination, or Discipline combined with a Move power check. Damage is treated like an improvised weapon:

Damage: 4; Critical: 5; Range: Short; Disorient 1, Knockdown.

Spend (Force point) to activate Qualities even if attack fails.

Spend (Force point) to increase base damage by 2. The Force user may activate this multiple times.

Anyway, this is a house rule to handle Force Push/Slam, etc. Force Push is a concussive wave attack using the Move power. Its damage should not be dependent upon the Silhouette of the receiving object, so the Control description does not apply. All objects/beings will be affected, though larger creatures may be less affected by weapon qualities. IMHO it's a weapon with a fairly consistent damage output, and like the other weapons in the game it needs just a little more definition.

Most of the time, Push is a one-round combat attack, so it has a finite duration. On rare occasions (e.g.: TCW, Season 3, episodes Citadel or Counter Attack), the Push can extend multiple rounds, freezing opponents in place and/or denying them maneuvers, causing Strain = Pips used on the original roll.

Doing a Push requires a minimum of the first Control upgrade. Note it also has the Prepare quality, which means it requires a maneuver to enact. This maneuver is typically accompanied by a gesture.

Push is a Discipline check contested by non-Force Sensitives by their Athletics or Coordination. A Force Sensitive can add Discipline to these choices.

Damage: 5 + successes. Add the number of Strength upgrades if a Strength pip is spent. This use of the Strength upgrade may be activated multiple times.
Critical: 5
Range: Short, it is not effective at greater ranges.
Qualities: Prepare, Knockdown, Disorient 1. If the 4th Strength upgrade is learned and a Strength pip is spent, replace Disorient 1 with Concussive 1.

Other effects:
- Targets may be affected by Qualities even if the attack fails.
- Targets that are Pushed that were Engaged are driven to Short range.
- If the check has a net zero failures and successes, no damage is done but the target is still Pushed back and may be affected by Qualities.

Optional: Targets are generally assumed to be in front of the character, roughly within a 90 degree arc. If placement matters in the situation, if the character has purchased a second Control upgrade, they may expand the arc of effect to 180 degrees by reducing Range by 1, or to 360 degrees by reducing Range by 2.

Optional: if the 3rd Strength upgrade is learned and a Strength pip is spent, minions only count as 1/2 a target for purposes of using the Magnitude upgrade, so long as no target is larger than Silhouette 1.

Triumph:
- free Magnitude or Strength upgrade
- ???

Despair:
- accidentally include allies
- ???

------------------------------------
In practice notes:

- a beginning character will need at least 1 pip to do a Force push at 5 + successes damage. If they have taken all four Strength upgrades they can spend 2 pips to do 9 + successes damage.

- a Jedi master with 4 Strength upgrades and 4 Magnitude upgrades will be able to spend 5 pips to: enact the power, add 2 for Strength upgrades, and 2 for Magnitude, doing 13 + successes damage to 9 targets.*

- if surrounded by enemies, a character wanting to Push away enemies engaged with him in all directions will need at least one Range upgrade (default Short, +1 for Range upgrade, -2 for 360 degree arc).

- Edit: using Force Push against sentients may cause Conflict, unless the situation is dire or necessary or the sentient is particularly dangerous.

* since I don't have F&D, I have no idea how balanced this is compared to the Bind or Unleash powers.

Removed as my critique/feedback is obviously not welcomed by the OP.

So is this a brand new power or simply an application of the "hurl objects" Control Upgrade for Move?

It's an aspect of Move, I'll clarify that.

If this is an aspect of Move, I honestly think you're making far more work for yourself than is really needed. Simply adopt the Crit Rating 5 that all improvised weapons have, and the damage is based upon Silhouette plus successes from the Discipline check. The only tweak really needed is that instead of hurling the target into another object, you're doing the damage directly to them, and for most adversaries that's going to be 10 damage (Silhouette 1) plus successes. If you want to affect a minion group, the GM can either require the Force user to activate the Magnitude Upgrade or treat them as a Silhouette 2 object.

I don't think any of this really accounts for how the power is consistently used, especially in TCW. it doesn't account for knockdown or any other effects.

But the main thing is I have no idea what Silhouette has to do with anything here. I can see using Silhouette * 10 when the object is being thrown at a target, but it makes no sense when the recipient is simply the receiver of a concussive blast. Using the same logic, grenades would do blast damage based on Silhouette...

Also, I wanted the Strength upgrade to mean something different in this context than Silhouette manipulation.

I do wonder what you mean by "far more work". Whether you decide it's an improvised weapon or something new, it's the same amount of work deciding how to treat it. You already came up with your own tweak for minion groups...

Personally, I'll be treating "Push" as an uncontrolled Move power attack Action made against all Silhouette 1 and smaller objects/targets in one direction at Short Range of the Force User. The user picks the direction and makes an Average Discipline check, base damage is Stun equal 1/2 Upgrades purchased. The attack has Knockdown. Engaged targets are moved to Short Range, targets at Short Range are moved to Medium, this movement may be resisted by Resilience or Discipline (if the target has either Move or Enhance) Difficulty equal to the user's Discipline.

Force Points may be spent to upgrade the Silhouette as normal. (Yes this means a sufficiently trained Move user could push a Sil 5 starship away from themselves... if they were at Short Range to start with)

I'm toying with the notion of allowing Force Points to be spent to upgrade Range, turn the Stun into Wound Damage, and add Qualities like Disorient, Concussive, etc. Though I'm leaning on leaving that to Triumph spending territory right now.

I'm also toying with allowing them to spend FP to inversely effect the Magnitude, thus reducing the targets... but I'm not sure I like that.

Removed as my critique/feedback is obviously not welcomed by the OP.

I see a lot of the damage is them being slammed bodily into the ground. Not just knocked over with the force.

Yeah... your ideas aren't bad, just a lot more work than is needed.

using move your push is just hurling them into the ground (or in the case of a minion group, each other). which is 10 damage, plus successes, plus extra force points spent to deal damage plus (if your GM is nice) a crit if you get enough advantage (since battle droids as improvised weapons are probably not great crit items, and technically it's not in the power description).

So a group of three droids is pretty likely to be well neutralized with a single FR3 move check. Add in magnitude and splat, a couple squads could go down.

It's not that what you have is bad... just that it's a lot more work than just using the power. As others have said too.

Given that the majority of targets we see subjected to a Force push are battle droids aka minions , having some kind of Knockdown quality is a moot point, since the damage output is going to take them out, at which point the player can describe what shape the target's in after it's been pushed.

Edit: I have to say I'm baffled by the "too much work" comments. Nobody has accounted for:

- Range: this use of the Move power is never used past Short range in the movies or TCW

- Opposed roll: opponents can clearly dodge or roll with the blast, while Force Sensitives can push back and avoid damage even while being moved

- Damage: there is no reason to assume base damage is 10, or that Silhouette of the target is a factor, simply because those are the only numbers mentioned for a completely different effect. I think a base of 10 is too high...who needs a lightsaber if you can Push?

- Qualities: as noted above, sometimes no damage is done, but the target is still pushed or disoriented.

Until those things are codified up front, you have to wing them at the table every time...and it seems to me that would be a lot more work, and more arbitrary.

Edit 2: I did change the crit rating, the improvised weapon level makes sense to me.

Hmmm, I realize what I wrote in the OP looks like a wall of text, maybe it's the presentation. So, as an adjunct to the current first Control upgrade in the Move power, or as a separate, parallel Control upgrade (for 10XP):

The Force user can push targets by making an opposed Discipline check against Athletics, Coordination, or Discipline combined with a Move power check. Damage is treated like an improvised weapon:

Damage: 4; Critical: 5; Range: Short; Disorient 1, Knockdown.

Spend (Force point) to activate Qualities even if attack fails.

Spend (Force point) to increase base damage by 2. The Force user may activate this multiple times.

Simpler?

Edit: reduced damage, updated OP to lead with this

Simple enough. I don't think you're going to find it's over powered. Though might I suggest that this steps on the toes of unleash, creating an effect very similar, and at a much lower bar to entry for a character.

I would say, if force pips can be used to increase the damage, only a 1:1 rate should be used.

- Range: this use of the Move power is never used past Short range in the movies or TCW

But don't let that sway you, I dislike most of what I've heard and seen about the EU.

- Range: this use of the Move power is never used past Short range in the movies or TCW

It is in the EU though.

But don't let that sway you, I dislike most of what I've heard and seen about the EU.

I never consider the EU

I would say, if force pips can be used to increase the damage, only a 1:1 rate should be used.

You may be right, I'll have to wait until I get my copy of F&D to see what Unleash has to offer. As it is, at least the base damage is reduced from 10. I can see a Padawan being able to consistently take out a single B1 with a push, but not something more potent.

Well, generally the base damage of unleash is going to be less than 5, and is basically what you've presented, but with a higher activation cost, a much higher FR pre requisite, and... stuff.

Of course, as a counter to that with unleash you gain access to protect, and there are some similar and fun things unleash can do. But this application of move is a touch stepping on unleashes toes, and reducing that pips to damage would help that a lot (it would also bring it inline with the actual move power).

But this is your sandbox, not mine.

Certainly worth looking at when I get F&D. It's odd though that nobody complained when people said to just use the base damage of 10 * Silhouette...which to me is way overkill.

Edit: in the meantime, I'll take your word for it, reduced the damage slightly.

I never consider the EU

Then he dies.

Wow, whoever wrote that needs to have their head removed from whatever dark place it's nestled in...

Wow, whoever wrote that needs to have their head removed from whatever dark place it's nestled in...

Apparently it was supposed to be "really dramatic and cool and stuff".

Yeah, even my friend who is the Star Wars Fanatic disliked it (who told me about it). He equated it to the "Power Creep" in the EU.

Yeah, even my friend who is the Star Wars Fanatic disliked it (who told me about it). He equated it to the "Power Creep" in the EU.

Heh, "to creep" is to move slowly...this was more a Power Nuclear Meltdown

Heh, "to creep" is to move slowly...this was more a Power Nuclear Meltdown

And then after "Not in my sky" someone threw an entire Moon at Chewie because they couldn't handle a Soaky the Bear Marauder in their game...

That was way way way before the force unleashed.

Much as the force unleashed stuff was crazy, it wasn't anywhere like some of the EU.

The timothy zahn days were some of the biggest offenders of over powered force use. Some how rag tag jedi wanna be's with little training could pull off force actions bigger and larger in scope than palpatine or Luke were capable of (basically the two most powerful force users ever).

And that all happened within the late 80's early 90's. the force unleashed was tame by comparison (and aside from the star destroyer, not anything worse than what we see in the FFG system. So besides moving slowing down the fall of large objects, the only thing that Starkiller had up on any of our PC's is a ludicrous amount of FR.

To be honest, I would've just gone with "seeking input". I've only ever seen one poster using "PEACH" and I had to look it up as a result.

A lot of the blame for over-powered Force usage can be laid at the feet of Kevin J. Anderson, who was the guy pretty much in charge of the Star Wars books during the 90's, and frankly a lot of the crappier elements of the EU from that time can be blamed on him as well, such as the incident of shoving multiple Star Destroyers away (Jedi Academy Trilogy). Timothy Zahn was actually one of the more sensible writers when it came to Force users, keeping its usage more line with what we saw in the movies than the over-blown Force Unleashed style of nonsense that other writers resorted to.

Removed as my critique/feedback is obviously not welcomed by the OP.

Fair enough regarding the zahn v Anderson. I believe all were to blame for not creating new things and sticking to a dynamic of more of the same only bigger (force) or more of the same only less big (super weapons).

but the point is well made, the late 80's and early 90's saw force using characters that made starkiller look like scout (cookies to the person that get's that reference without wookiepedia).