In case you haven't heard there was a huge surprise yesterday when FFG issued a cease and desist to netrunnerdb - one of the top deck building sites for Netrunner. The netrunner community is in shock.

I hope this doesn't foreshadow a more general policy shift at FFG to control fan-made utility sites. I rely heavily on x-wing squad building sites and losing these fan-made resources would have a major negative impact on my enjoyment of the game...

Here's the c&d discussion on board game geek:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1234809/netrunnerdb-cease-and-desist

Nevermind, that sounds awful yeah.

I hope they don't shut it down! Squad builder is like 25% of my browsing time. There is still the battlescribe option if they do though.

I think it's a poor allocation resources personally.

I mean, they could've used the manpower to fix the TIE Advanced.

-Cal

I think it's a poor allocation resources personally.

I mean, they could've used the manpower to fix the TIE Advanced.

-Cal

Right, because their legal department does game design on the side...?

I was thinking more on the money they pay their lawyers vs. their designers, but we can run with that if you like.

-Cal

More importantly, if FFG does issue a cease and desist which squad builders will pay attention to it and which will throw it in the garbage where it belongs?

Not to speak about alienating your playerbase and neglecting yourself free advertisiment from those sites for your product.

Right, because their legal department does game design on the side...?

If it did, we might have found the reason behind why the TIE Advanced is in the state it is...

As long as they replace it with a robust squad builder of their own that runs on html5 and not flash i'm ok with it.

(needs to be ipad friendly and all that stuff)

Not to speak about alienating your playerbase and neglecting yourself free advertisiment from those sites for your product.

Unsurprisingly a lot of Netrunner players feel angry and betrayed by FFG.

Hmmmm... Can you think of any other game companies that alienated their fan base?

Maybe there's a silver lining here though. If this is some indication that FFG might start producing deck/squad building apps that would be AWESOME! I'd gladly pay up for a nice iOS squad building app. I paid $70 for the warmachine app and it was worth every penny.

More importantly, if FFG does issue a cease and desist which squad builders will pay attention to it and which will throw it in the garbage where it belongs?

If you get a C&D from FFG don't do that!

Not to speak about alienating your playerbase and neglecting yourself free advertisiment from those sites for your product.

Hmmmm... Can you think of any other game companies that alienated their fan base?

Games workshop seems to enjoy doing the same.

More importantly, if FFG does issue a cease and desist which squad builders will pay attention to it and which will throw it in the garbage where it belongs?

If you get a C&D from FFG don't do that!

Don't obey it or don't throw it out?

This is a weird by for FFG. Might just be an overzealous legal team. Not much reason for them to C&D squad builders, not like the people that make them are intercepting money that FFG would have made. Unless FFG intends to release a deckbuilding app for Netrunner? Without knowing why they shut down the Netrunner builder, there's not enough information to know if we should be concerned or if the sky's just falling again.

I think a part of it is Americas copyright and licencing system is very old and outdated, companies have to protect their properties or lose them.

It could be the legal team acting on their own.

We don't have the full picture.

I think the case with X-Wing will be different than with LCGs, simply for the reason that cards and tokens are not the only material you require to play the game ...

Looking at the page in question, it looks to me that they are very close to putting everything required to play on there sans the actual artwork of the cards and the tokens. Allowing for the game to be played with print-outs rather than the original material. This might have sparked a legal team to "let's earn our keep" because lawyers have to justify their jobs, esspecially if they are not part of the company itself but a contracted law firm.

EDIT: and of course as Hobjebus points out (ninja'ed me) in the USA companies have to protect their copyrights actively, if they don't they loose their hold on it, opneing a loop-whole through which things like product piracy would become legal

EDIT2: and of course FFG is a lisence holder, not a copyright holder, as far as X-Wing is concered (Star Wars is a trademark of Lucasfilm/Disney) - so they would not C&D but Disney if such a proceedure were to be initiated

Here's the thing I'm getting from it. NetrunnerDB got hit in the crossover because their site seemed to allow another site, jinteki.net, to create it's own deckbuilder that was also going to have a way to play Netrunner. And FFG has been fairly consistent about going after sites that allowed you to play Netrunner with high rez images. OCTGN still operates because it has some severe limitations on the card images. Heck, I remember cardgameDB having some restrictions on high rez images before FFG bought them.

And considering it was only those two sites that received C&Ds, I don't expect FFG to go to war with deckbuilders or squad builders. I expect NetrunnerDB will be able to work out a compromise with FFG.

Here's the thing I'm getting from it. NetrunnerDB got hit in the crossover because their site seemed to allow another site, jinteki.net, to create it's own deckbuilder that was also going to have a way to play Netrunner. And FFG has been fairly consistent about going after sites that allowed you to play Netrunner with high rez images. OCTGN still operates because it has some severe limitations on the card images. Heck, I remember cardgameDB having some restrictions on high rez images before FFG bought them.

And considering it was only those two sites that received C&Ds, I don't expect FFG to go to war with deckbuilders or squad builders. I expect NetrunnerDB will be able to work out a compromise with FFG.

That sounds reasonable.

I think it's a poor allocation resources personally.

I mean, they could've used the manpower to fix the TIE Advanced.

-Cal

Right, because their legal department does game design on the side...?

So yes, poor allocation of resources

Squad builders use card text that is copyrighted by FFG, they're well within their legal rights to prevent them from using copyrighted material whether for profit or fun.

That said, FFG could make their own site like http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/ (the squad builder I like to use) and simply put banner ads on or something to the same effect.

Uh... the designers are on salary. By spending money on Lawyers, they don't take away resources from the designers, those guys just keep working every day. If they spent so much on Lawyers that the design team quit because they weren't getting paid you might have an argument, but otherwise, to say that they're not allocating resources properly is a little silly.

This only has to do with imagery, not text. All the squad builders have done have been to type out the words on the cards. The words are not copyrighted, unless it has gone through an expensive trademarking process.

The only things that FFG truly have control over is the actual artwork. That is to say, not the words themselves, but the words in a specific configuration using a specific font with specific background artwork. The Artwork NEEDs to be protected, and it's a smart and business savvy move to protect, otherwise they have no grounds in case they get a real specific attack from an overseas company that starts to print of illegal cards and sell them (has been known to happen in Magic).

Point being, the X-wing squad builders are safe because they don't use imagery, those builders retype the text. The wikia might be questioned though. For the most part, I believe the popular squad builders have also been in touch with FFG and have permission. That's key.

I can understand why the netrunner fans are unhappy, but at the same time, if they had a business which had intellectual property tied up in artwork they might understand more. I am understanding that really the C&D notice is about the artwork, not about the deck builder mechanic itself. So, if they take the artwork out and type out the words, they should be fine.

Jacob

It sound like NetrunnerDB got caught up in the C&D aimed at jinteki.net, which was trying to offer online play, which is probably what they really wanted to block. There's not a whole lot they can do to stop stuff like Vassal and OCTGN, I imagine, but something actually directly hosted on a website? Easy. And jinteki.net sourced all of their card art from netrunnerdb, so they got caught in the crossfire. Let's wait and see what they do next before declaring the sky is falling, eh?

...and I see Sithborg already pointed this out, so I should probably read the whole thread. Oh well.

I'm going to have to attempt to C&D attempts at humor as...

A. I'm completely unfunny/humorous.

or

B. Most everyone else is.

-Cal

**No lawyers or game designers were harmed in the posting of this reply.

Well ... there is always a chance for successful gaming companies to become greedy or mad ,,, or even both.