Until we get the FAQ for wave 5 an interesting question came up during a match using Dash Rendar.

You "may" is not you must. So if dash barrel rolls off to the side in attemp to get out of arc and is overlapping an obsticle and you see the position and decide it' snot good and not use Dash's ability? When do you have to decide if the Dash's ability comes into play? Before he decides the action or movement, or when he over laps. I can see where it is sneaky to wait and see after you move, but I can also see the trigger doesn't happen until you overlap. Here is another example of a "May" in a pilots ability.

Here we all know how this works, you roll the dice and if you get a blank you reroll it. You activate the "May" on the trigger at the time of the reroll. You don't have to decide you are rerolling before your first roll of attack dice.

So does that translate to Dash for a similar effect?

It's funny, this kinda got ignored when he was announced, but it is very powerful. With the wording I would wager that WHEN you perform the action you may elect not to ignore the obstacle.

Example: Dash checks a barrel roll near an asteroid, but he cannot clear without overlapping. He MAY elect not to use his ability because completing the barrel roll on the asteroid would prevent him from attacking.

This was mentioned in the Wave 5 announcement thread by a particularly handsome fellow, but didn't seem to get much notice.

In this case the "may" could be there to allow you to forget and not have to try to rewind a game state to make it happen retroactively. That is the reason I think they made swarm tactics "may" as well.

As to the timing, it could go both ways. Until it's FAQ'd I'd say you have to declare to use/not use during the activation phase, and during action activation, not when landing on an obstacle.

In the first example, you choose your action before you measure to check locations. You've chosen Barrel Roll as your action. You then execute that action. If you can't perform the action in the direction you wanted because of an obstacle, then you get no action. In the case of Dash Rendar, you can still choose to either ignore the obstacle and move onto it, or barrel roll in a different direction. You can't change the action you've chosen after the fact.

In that case it doesn't really matter. You can decide to not activate Dash's ability after you've seen the location, but you're still locked into doing the Barrel Roll action. You just have to choose another final position.

In the first example, you choose your action before you measure to check locations. You've chosen Barrel Roll as your action. You then execute that action. If you can't perform the action in the direction you wanted because of an obstacle, then you get no action. In the case of Dash Rendar, you can still choose to either ignore the obstacle and move onto it, or barrel roll in a different direction. You can't change the action you've chosen after the fact.

In that case it doesn't really matter. You can decide to not activate Dash's ability after you've seen the location, but you're still locked into doing the Barrel Roll action. You just have to choose another final position.

If you choose not to activate Dash's ability on a barrel roll due to an obstacle you are not forced to Barrel roll in the other direction, you get to choose a different action.

In the first example, you choose your action before you measure to check locations. You've chosen Barrel Roll as your action. You then execute that action. If you can't perform the action in the direction you wanted because of an obstacle, then you get no action. In the case of Dash Rendar, you can still choose to either ignore the obstacle and move onto it, or barrel roll in a different direction. You can't change the action you've chosen after the fact.

In that case it doesn't really matter. You can decide to not activate Dash's ability after you've seen the location, but you're still locked into doing the Barrel Roll action. You just have to choose another final position.

If you choose not to activate Dash's ability on a barrel roll due to an obstacle you are not forced to Barrel roll in the other direction, you get to choose a different action.

I wouldn't say so. You chose Barrel Roll as your action. That's what you do.

In the first example, you choose your action before you measure to check locations. You've chosen Barrel Roll as your action. You then execute that action. If you can't perform the action in the direction you wanted because of an obstacle, then you get no action. In the case of Dash Rendar, you can still choose to either ignore the obstacle and move onto it, or barrel roll in a different direction. You can't change the action you've chosen after the fact.

In that case it doesn't really matter. You can decide to not activate Dash's ability after you've seen the location, but you're still locked into doing the Barrel Roll action. You just have to choose another final position.

If you choose not to activate Dash's ability on a barrel roll due to an obstacle you are not forced to Barrel roll in the other direction, you get to choose a different action.

I wouldn't say so. You chose Barrel Roll as your action. That's what you do.

No, you choose barrel roll in a direction. You choose Boost in a direction too.

In the first example, you choose your action before you measure to check locations. You've chosen Barrel Roll as your action. You then execute that action. If you can't perform the action in the direction you wanted because of an obstacle, then you get no action. In the case of Dash Rendar, you can still choose to either ignore the obstacle and move onto it, or barrel roll in a different direction. You can't change the action you've chosen after the fact.

In that case it doesn't really matter. You can decide to not activate Dash's ability after you've seen the location, but you're still locked into doing the Barrel Roll action. You just have to choose another final position.

If you choose not to activate Dash's ability on a barrel roll due to an obstacle you are not forced to Barrel roll in the other direction, you get to choose a different action.

I wouldn't say so. You chose Barrel Roll as your action. That's what you do.

No, you choose barrel roll in a direction. You choose Boost in a direction too.

The rules don't specify that, you just are allowed to premeasure (not move your model) prior to commiting to the action. If you pick up the model and move it, you're locked in. You can't then try to not use Dash's ability to make it an illegal move. If you premeasure and you can't move to that location, you can then barrel roll in the opposite direction or pick another action. If you have commited to Barrel Roll and tried moving your model, you're locked in.

Interestingly, as per the rules:

Actually I messed it up anyway looking back at what I wrote in the first reply. Not sure what I was drinking right then. The only way you'd get no action on a barrel roll would be if it was somehow the only action you could pick and had no possible locations you could move to (not sure how that'd happen).

Basically though Dash works the same as anyone else as far as barrel roll, except he can perform them onto obstacles. If he chooses not to use his ability, he has to do so prior to moving the model.

Q: When a player wishes to perform a boost action, can he measure to see if his ship can perform a boost before committing to this action (similar to a barrel roll)?

A: Yes. In competitive and premier events, the player must declare the direction before attempting the maneuver (see competitive play on Page 5).

That is from the FAQ

I agree with Skargoth on this one. Because you are not committed to the barrel action while measuring, I see no reason why you can't just measure to see whether or not you'd end up on the asteroid, then change your mind and do a completely different action.

Therefore, the decision to use Dash's ability doesn't even factor into it unless you decide that you do want to barrel roll onto an obstacle after all. (Keep in mind, though, that if you do barrel roll onto an obstacle, you do lose the ability to attack during that round.)

Since it appears to be a choice, there's a clear timing issue. When does the Dash player declare if he wants to ignore obstacles? Is it constantly on, or does he have to turn it off? For example, if you execute a maneuver that passes over an asteroid and declare that you're ignoring that asteroid, can you then choose not to ignore an obstacle for the purposes of barrel roll afterwards?

Tangentially, are there any situations where the choice of 'may' is taken out of your hands (i.e. you must do something, despite a 'may' clause being involved)?

And more from the FAQ: When performing a barrel roll, a player must first declare from which side of the ship’s base the action will be performed. Then, he measures to see if the ship is able to perform a barrel roll action from any legal area on the declared side. If the ship can perform the barrel roll action, it must do so. If the ship cannot perform the barrel roll action, the player may declare a barrel roll in the other direction, or he may declare a different action.

If you declare it and "can" barrel roll, you "must". I'd say Dash could (his ability would allow him to), and therefore must, but I wouldn't be surprised if it went either way.

And more from the FAQ: When performing a barrel roll, a player must first declare from which side of the ship’s base the action will be performed. Then, he measures to see if the ship is able to perform a barrel roll action from any legal area on the declared side. If the ship can perform the barrel roll action, it must do so. If the ship cannot perform the barrel roll action, the player may declare a barrel roll in the other direction, or he may declare a different action.

If you declare it and "can" barrel roll, you "must". I'd say Dash could (his ability would allow him to), and therefore must, but I wouldn't be surprised if it went either way.

If you declare it and "can" barrel roll, you "must". I'd say Dash could (his ability would allow him to), and therefore must, but I wouldn't be surprised if it went either way.

I'd read it that way, yes.

"If you can (which means 'via any means available to you') then you must"

So if Dash can barrel roll on to an asteroid (and the answer is yes, he always can, unless he's taken the "injured pilot" crit), then he must.

If you declare it and "can" barrel roll, you "must". I'd say Dash could (his ability would allow him to), and therefore must, but I wouldn't be surprised if it went either way.

I'd read it that way, yes.

"If you can (which means 'via any means available to you') then you must"

So if Dash can barrel roll on to an asteroid (and the answer is yes, he always can, unless he's taken the "injured pilot" crit), then he must.

Then I would say the wording on Dash is completely wrong. The word "May" should not be printed on him.

I look upon what I have wrought, and I am content.

I'm clearly in the 'may' camp being that you may attempt to barrel roll. If you would overlap and obstacle in all possible barrel roll positions, at that point you may choose whether to barrel roll or not by invoking Dash's 'may' clause. If you could place Dash without overlapping, however, you are committed to that direction.

Dash' ability says "You may ignore obstacles during the Activation phase and WHEN performing actions." It doesn't say "You may ignore obstacles during the Activation phase and may declare to ignore obsticles BEFORE performing actions." If you have measured to see if you can barrel roll BEFORE committing to the action, then you haven't performed the action yet thats allowing Dash to activate his ability to ignore the obstacle he is overlapping. His ability isn't always active, so until you commit to the action you can't ignore the obstacle.

IMO

1-Say you want to barrel roll.

2-Declare left or right.

3-Measure to see if the model overlaps an obstacle.

4-If model overlaps obstacle then barrel roll can't be performed to that position.

5-Choose to either barrel roll to other side, or declare a different action, or commit to barrel roll action to side with obstacle which allows you to activate Dash' ability to ignore obstacle.

I'm going to disagree with where the consensus is going here, but for a different reason than most.

The ability is certainly optional, the question in my mind is when you make that choice, and how many times you get to make it.

In this case, "...when performing Actions." The action is the trigger, and the duration, and you must choose whether or not to use the ability at the point when the trigger is met. So when you declare the roll, you'd have to declare whether you were using Dash's ability or not. I don't believe that you can flip an ability on and off at will throughout the activation period. The same would apply with the Activation Phase trigger - you'd have to decide to turn it on or off at the start of the Activation Phase.

I'll freely admit that there's not much source to back that up, since this is the first time we've seen something like this, but I look at it just like any other activated ability.

Then I would say the wording on Dash is completely wrong. The word "May" should not be printed on him.

Wouldn't be the first time we've seen that. But in this case I think xander's got an interesting point. If you can turn it on and off at will at any time during the duration, just how far do you have to go to try and complete the roll? You already have to pick a position you might not want, maybe you have to activate an ability you might not want?

It's not entirely unprecedented - Biggs works in much the same way, enforcing choices far beyond immediate target selection by forcing you to use a weapon that can hit him if you have one, even if you might not want to.

But it also doesn't make the "may" completely meaningless. For one, it would only apply under the Competitive Rules, and remember that it applies for maneuvers as well as actions. Scenarios may, as a thought, require you to overlap obstacles to pick things up, which Dash would need to be able to turn off his ability to accomplish. Just because a lot of us tend to play standard Competitive games only doesn't mean that every ability is worded exclusively for that.

Let's do an imagine heavy example!

You find your self here where you are well within the range 1 arc of the Firespray. It seems their is just enough room to Barrel Roll Right Forward and fit within the astroid and get out of arc of the event ship. You declare you intent to perform that action.

You now see there is no safe place to land without hitting the rock. Dash does have this may ability when dealing with Obsticles. You decide the arc is just getting you and you are on the rock, you take the ruling for Barrel rolling onto Obsticles to reclaim the action and focus. If the FFG ruling comes in that he has to take the action, then it waters down his ability and could become a liability. No other ship has to worry about landing on rocks while Barrel Rolling except the pilot who is suppose to have an advantage while dealing with them.

Just is case you were wondering, Yes he was still in arc:

If you say Dash must declare if he is going to be using his ability or not before he tries the action, why doesn't a ship firing with Howlrunner effect declare if they are going to reroll before the attack is made?

I have been thinking about this more. There are several key phrases:

"during the activation phase"

"when performing actions"

and of course "may".

So, once you decide to activate Dash's ability, or decide NOT to activate his ability, the decision must apply for the entire action phase.

One result from this, is if your maneuver ends on an obstacle, and you use Dash's ability to take an action, then if you declare a barrel roll direction you MUST barrel roll there if at all possible, using Dash's ability, even if it means you MUST land on an obstacle. You have already decided to activate Dash's ability, so for the remainder of the activation phase you must ignore obstacles. So if you are not careful, you may end up not being able to shoot that round.

If you do not end your maneuver (or template) overlapping a rock, you have not yet had to make a decision about Dash's ability. But if you measure for a barrel roll and decide not to take it because it would overlap an obstacle, you have decided NOT to use Dash's ability for that entire round. Now you are locked in for that round. So you could cancel your barrel roll as you would have to with a normal pilot, but you would not be able to barrel roll the OTHER way either, IF it would end up overlapping an obstacle.

Edit ninjaed by Buhallin!

I was worried at first about bringing this subject up. Things tend to get heated here lately. I want to thank everyone for talking civilly during this topic

I don't see how you even can declare your using his ability before taking the barrel roll action. You need to be performing the action, not the pre-measure, in order to use the ability. Before taking the action means you haven't met the abilities prerequisite. And until there is a FAQ saying otherwise, his ability is optional.

I have been thinking about this more. There are several key phrases:

"during the activation phase"

"when performing actions"

and of course "may".

So, once you decide to activate Dash's ability, or decide NOT to activate his ability, the decision must apply for the entire action phase.

One result from this, is if your maneuver ends on an obstacle, and you use Dash's ability to take an action, then if you declare a barrel roll direction you MUST barrel roll there if at all possible, using Dash's ability, even if it means you MUST land on an obstacle. You have already decided to activate Dash's ability, so for the remainder of the activation phase you must ignore obstacles. So if you are not careful, you may end up not being able to shoot that round.

If you do not end your maneuver (or template) overlapping a rock, you have not yet had to make a decision about Dash's ability. But if you measure for a barrel roll and decide not to take it because it would overlap an obstacle, you have decided NOT to use Dash's ability for that entire round. Now you are locked in for that round. So you could cancel your barrel roll as you would have to with a normal pilot, but you would not be able to barrel roll the OTHER way either, IF it would end up overlapping an obstacle.

Edit ninjaed by Buhallin!

So here Dash has moved over the astroid and activated his ability to ignor the effect. He then decides to try and make the Barrel Roll but just nips the Astroid. So since he has used his ability once to be active he has to live on that rock. That just doesn't feel like a special ability to me.