Let's worry about it when there is a reason why you would want to suffer the effects of overlapping an obstacle. Until then, it is a pointless exercise, as there is no reason why Dash would want to give up his action, take a stress, or potentially take a damage.

Let's worry about it when there is a reason why you would want to suffer the effects of overlapping an obstacle. Until then, it is a pointless exercise, as there is no reason why Dash would want to give up his action, take a stress, or potentially take a damage.

This- I would say that you choose whether or not you use his ability EVERY time you move, but it's irrelevant outside of boost/barrel roll unless you want to hurt yourself.

I'd say the default is his ability is "on", but you can choose not to use it (simply to stop "you didn't declare using Dash's ability so you have to take damage from that rock" silliness).

From the FAQ:

"Dash Rendar

When declaring a barrel roll or boost, Dash Rendar must choose whether or not to use his ability before measuring if he would overlap an obstacle."

Ok, kinda disappointed in this rule. However the rules are the rules, but let's have fun. So Dash says he may ignores Obsticles during movment, so what is the default on or off. The FAQ only says I have decide befor measuring for an action. What about befor the movment? Is this a separate trigger for Movment. So I revel my dial for Dash and it has a 4 Straight and goes over a rock. Now I move and say yeah I use his ability and the I decide not to use his ability while I attempt to boost over another?

Did they really even fix anything with the FAQ update to dash. So I say I'm not using his ability and move my ship to see that I overlapped. I then regain my action and declare I'm now going to use his ability and take the same action landing on the rock!

I think it fixes it by stopping the player who is against Dash arguing on what Dash can or cannot do. Heck in the whole Farlander debate you had players who would not let the game advance if the other player who controlled Farlander used the pilot ability to discard stress even if there were no focus results on the attack dice.

So you can resolve each ability with the opportunity. On the movement you may use Dash to ignore obstacles, then choose not to use his ability for the barrel roll. If it lands on an obstacle you can take it back then choose another action or the same this time using Dash's ability.

The FAQ silenced the naysayers, which is good IMHO.

I think the faq makes sense if he'd of been able to choose after making the barrel role it would of been unfair.

I think the faq makes sense if he'd of been able to choose after making th. e barrel role it would of been unfair.

Am I understanding this correctly?

Edit: Basically, what I am taking from this FAQ, is that it keeps Dash' ability from costing him an ability afforded to all other pilots, and at the same time keeps it from being abused as a pre-measuring tool. I think it sounds like a good fix.

Maybe I'm just dense, but does Dash still take damage for moving through asteroids? Does he just ignore them for purposes of taking actions and shooting?

Did they really even fix anything with the FAQ update to dash. So I say I'm not using his ability and move my ship to see that I overlapped. I then regain my action and declare I'm now going to use his ability and take the same action landing on the rock!

Actually your proposal is not possible (from the faq):

If the ship cannot perform the barrel roll action, the player may declare a

barrel roll in the other direction, or he may declare a different action.

Let's worry about it when there is a reason why you would want to suffer the effects of overlapping an obstacle. Until then, it is a pointless exercise, as there is no reason why Dash would want to give up his action, take a stress, or potentially take a damage.

You might not want to barrel roll onto a rock as your last action, as you would not get a shot. If you don't use Dash's ability then you are not allowed to barrel roll onto a rock, and may perform another action.

A funny situation could be if you land on a rock but then decide you don't want to use his ability with roll or boost.

When it comes to movement you're always going to use his ability simply because you're always going to end up landing the same place anyway. I guess if you wanted to risk damage and actions you could ignore it when moving but that seems very pointless.

A funny situation could be if you land on a rock but then decide you don't want to use his ability with roll or boost.

When it comes to movement you're always going to use his ability simply because you're always going to end up landing the same place anyway. I guess if you wanted to risk damage and actions you could ignore it when moving but that seems very pointless.

Not necessarily. You may be deciding you want to barrel roll in one direction, but fear landing on an obstacle more then the option of barrel rolling in the opposite direction. So now, you can claim your barrel rolling, choose the direction, say your not using Dash's ability, and if you end up overlapping the obstacle you are now not allowed to make the barrel roll and must barrel roll the the opposite side.

Did they really even fix anything with the FAQ update to dash. So I say I'm not using his ability and move my ship to see that I overlapped. I then regain my action and declare I'm now going to use his ability and take the same action landing on the rock!

Actually your proposal is not possible (from the faq):

If the ship cannot perform the barrel roll action, the player may declare a

barrel roll in the other direction, or he may declare a different action.

As per the FAQ( "may" perform a diffrent action). Does this mean I can declare the same action. thus by declaring my action provides the trigger for me to use or not use Dashs' ability.

Your right the FAQ made this really clear!

A funny situation could be if you land on a rock but then decide you don't want to use his ability with roll or boost.

When it comes to movement you're always going to use his ability simply because you're always going to end up landing the same place anyway. I guess if you wanted to risk damage and actions you could ignore it when moving but that seems very pointless.

Not necessarily. You may be deciding you want to barrel roll in one direction, but fear landing on an obstacle more then the option of barrel rolling in the opposite direction. So now, you can claim your barrel rolling, choose the direction, say your not using Dash's ability, and if you end up overlapping the obstacle you are now not allowed to make the barrel roll and must barrel roll the the opposite side.

I think you may be missing my point. If you use Dash's ability to act as he lands on an obstacle then it would seem his ability is active and if you declare a roll you'll have to roll in the chosen direction. If you have chosen NOT to use his ability then you would be unable to act because you are sitting on an obstacle.

A funny situation could be if you land on a rock but then decide you don't want to use his ability with roll or boost.

When it comes to movement you're always going to use his ability simply because you're always going to end up landing the same place anyway. I guess if you wanted to risk damage and actions you could ignore it when moving but that seems very pointless.

Not necessarily. You may be deciding you want to barrel roll in one direction, but fear landing on an obstacle more then the option of barrel rolling in the opposite direction. So now, you can claim your barrel rolling, choose the direction, say your not using Dash's ability, and if you end up overlapping the obstacle you are now not allowed to make the barrel roll and must barrel roll the the opposite side.

I think you may be missing my point. If you use Dash's ability to act as he lands on an obstacle then it would seem his ability is active and if you declare a roll you'll have to roll in the chosen direction. If you have chosen NOT to use his ability then you would be unable to act because you are sitting on an obstacle.

Ah, sorry. These 11 hour work days fry my brain.

A funny situation could be if you land on a rock but then decide you don't want to use his ability with roll or boost.

When it comes to movement you're always going to use his ability simply because you're always going to end up landing the same place anyway. I guess if you wanted to risk damage and actions you could ignore it when moving but that seems very pointless.

If I was playing Dash I think at the start or the game I would declare for all actions I Will NOT be using Dash's pilot ability unless I state it otherwise when declaring actions, just to be on the clear side. When taking actions that have risks it is always better to choose the mistake that can always be undone.

A funny situation could be if you land on a rock but then decide you don't want to use his ability with roll or boost.

When it comes to movement you're always going to use his ability simply because you're always going to end up landing the same place anyway. I guess if you wanted to risk damage and actions you could ignore it when moving but that seems very pointless.

When it comes to that I think an experienced Dash player will always say "Not using ability for action" when declaring an action. It prevents landing on a rock and you could end up declaring the action using the ability after you attempted to complete the action without the ability.

If I was playing Dash I think at the start or the game I would declare for all actions I Will NOT be using Dash's pilot ability unless I state it otherwise when declaring actions, just to be on the clear side. When taking actions that have risks it is always better to choose the mistake that can always be undone.

This is how I generallylay any game.

Declare intent so both sides understand what you are trying to do so there is no fuzziness happens.

But ideally, this ruling is explicitly stated somewhere officially so such declarations don't have to be made.

I'm on the side that it will probably be ruled as a "may" be triggered, so you can opt to declare afterward, but I wouldn't be surprised either way.

As per the FAQ( "may" perform a diffrent action). Does this mean I can declare the same action. thus by declaring my action provides the trigger for me to use or not use Dashs' ability.

Your right the FAQ made this really clear!

I guess having the most stupidly broken ship to hit the game yet isn't quite enough for some people.

It's not strictly laid out either way, but my general feeling is that if you shut off Dash's ability, try and action, and find you can't make it, you can't turn it on and try the same action again. Two reasons: First, doing so completely negates the point of deciding beforehand (which was the ruling). I'm not usually one for the "spirit" or "intent" of a ruling, but it seems pretty obvious the ruling aims to stop exactly what you're trying to do. Second, if you could repick at will, any player so inclined could instantly stop the game with an impossible boost. "I boost ahead, oh, I don't fit. Okay, new action. I boost ahead. Still don't fit. Well, guess I'll boost ahead. Hm, amazing, still doesn't fit. How much time is left?" That probably runs afoul of the stalling rules, and possibly (although not really) runs afoul of the infinite combo rule, but strictly speaking it would work just fine.

Dash has to decide before he takes the action if he's going to have his ability or not, and he has to live with guessing wrong with that. Suck it up.

But ideally, this ruling is explicitly stated somewhere officially so such declarations don't have to be made.

I'm on the side that it will probably be ruled as a "may" be triggered, so you can opt to declare afterward, but I wouldn't be surprised either way.

Might want to catch up on the FAQ...

As per the FAQ( "may" perform a diffrent action). Does this mean I can declare the same action. thus by declaring my action provides the trigger for me to use or not use Dashs' ability.

Your right the FAQ made this really clear!

I guess having the most stupidly broken ship to hit the game yet isn't quite enough for some people.

It's not strictly laid out either way, but my general feeling is that if you shut off Dash's ability, try and action, and find you can't make it, you can't turn it on and try the same action again. Two reasons: First, doing so completely negates the point of deciding beforehand (which was the ruling). I'm not usually one for the "spirit" or "intent" of a ruling, but it seems pretty obvious the ruling aims to stop exactly what you're trying to do. Second, if you could repick at will, any player so inclined could instantly stop the game with an impossible boost. "I boost ahead, oh, I don't fit. Okay, new action. I boost ahead. Still don't fit. Well, guess I'll boost ahead. Hm, amazing, still doesn't fit. How much time is left?" That probably runs afoul of the stalling rules, and possibly (although not really) runs afoul of the infinite combo rule, but strictly speaking it would work just fine.

Dash has to decide before he takes the action if he's going to have his ability or not, and he has to live with guessing wrong with that. Suck it up.

Also have you played with or against that ship yet (and if so how many games)? Declaring the most ridiculous (OP) ship that has less firepower, less hull & shielding than Han Solo seems a little premature. Okay let's say in a match you used a random table generator to determine the # of obstacles. Now let's say that the results were open space or only 2 obstacles. Now how stupidly broken Dash's pilot ability? It only works if there are obstacles.

Now it is agreed that delaying ploys are not playing the game. Also if you find out you can't make that specific action taking it again without something to change the results is likely illegal. However there are worse ploys then just running through all impossible actions just to run the clock down (arguing over rules does a great job at this). If it is a casual game then leave. As for competitive it will only work if they were ahead from the start. Still just because you don't like the way some of the game mechanism play out because you are against some concepts (such as pre-measuring) then maybe you should look into other games, or be a good sport and just play on it.

If you take a barrel roll action and cannot make the barrel roll because you are blocked, it doesn't prevent you from declaring a barrel roll because you failed an attempt earlier. You can make the same action and using the same action with the ability is almost the same as declaring different direction.

I don't believe this would be legal in competitive play. When declaring you are not using Dash' ability, Dash would be treated as per normal rules when boosting/rolling.

As per competitive play wording regarding boosting/rolling onto an object:

Barrel Roll - "...the player may declare a barrel in the other direction, or he may declare a different action."

Boost - "...the player may declare a different maneuver template or direction to use, or he may declare a different action."

A boost or barrel roll action is still that action, whether Dash' ability is in effect or not, so if you cannot boost/roll in the direction you first declared, as per competitive play rules regarding declaring direction, then you must either go to a different, legal area, or choose a different action altogether.

As far as casual play rules are concerned, I have found no rules saying that a different action must be declared if your boost/roll action cannot land your ship in a legal area. So I see no nothing specifically denying Dash from being able to choose performing the same action, this time with his ability, if the first attempt could not land you in a legal area. However, I may have missed something? But I would assume that the point of the FAQ was also to keep players from being able to perform the same action twice as you have suggested, even in casual play. That just seems... wrong, IMHO. It doesn't really mesh up with how it works with competitive play. But unless there is something I am missing for casual play regarding this, I believe another FAQ ruling is required stating whether it is wrong or not.

If there are any rules that I am overlooking that contradict my interpretation of how this works, then please enlighten my ignorance.

Might play a game tomorrow with Dash.

Have I understood it correctly that the official answer is (for competitive play) :

1. Declare barrel roll to one side.

2. Before measuring declare if you are using ability.

3. If you are NOT using ability and it DOESN'T work you cannot declare same side again.

Question: What's the logical consequence if someone plops down their barrel roll template but doesn't declare in advance if they are using Dash's ability? Is the default that it is on or off?

Question: What's the logical consequence if someone plops down their barrel roll template but doesn't declare in advance if they are using Dash's ability? Is the default that it is on or off?

I'd say the default would be to say its on.

If you take a barrel roll action and cannot make the barrel roll because you are blocked, it doesn't prevent you from declaring a barrel roll because you failed an attempt earlier. You can make the same action and using the same action with the ability is almost the same as declaring different direction.

I don't believe this would be legal in competitive play. When declaring you are not using Dash' ability, Dash would be treated as per normal rules when boosting/rolling.

As per competitive play wording regarding boosting/rolling onto an object:

Barrel Roll - "...the player may declare a barrel in the other direction, or he may declare a different action."

Boost - "...the player may declare a different maneuver template or direction to use, or he may declare a different action."

A boost or barrel roll action is still that action, whether Dash' ability is in effect or not, so if you cannot boost/roll in the direction you first declared, as per competitive play rules regarding declaring direction, then you must either go to a different, legal area, or choose a different action altogether.

As far as casual play rules are concerned, I have found no rules saying that a different action must be declared if your boost/roll action cannot land your ship in a legal area. So I see no nothing specifically denying Dash from being able to choose performing the same action, this time with his ability, if the first attempt could not land you in a legal area. However, I may have missed something? But I would assume that the point of the FAQ was also to keep players from being able to perform the same action twice as you have suggested, even in casual play. That just seems... wrong, IMHO. It doesn't really mesh up with how it works with competitive play. But unless there is something I am missing for casual play regarding this, I believe another FAQ ruling is required stating whether it is wrong or not.

If there are any rules that I am overlooking that contradict my interpretation of how this works, then please enlighten my ignorance.

that's like saying farlander cannot spend stress if there are no focus results because it is not "defined" on the card.

Might play a game tomorrow with Dash.

Have I understood it correctly that the official answer is (for competitive play) :

1. Declare barrel roll to one side.

2. Before measuring declare if you are using ability.

3. If you are NOT using ability and it DOESN'T work you cannot declare same side again.

If you take a barrel roll action and cannot make the barrel roll because you are blocked, it doesn't prevent you from declaring a barrel roll because you failed an attempt earlier. You can make the same action and using the same action with the ability is almost the same as declaring different direction.

I don't believe this would be legal in competitive play. When declaring you are not using Dash' ability, Dash would be treated as per normal rules when boosting/rolling.

As per competitive play wording regarding boosting/rolling onto an object:

Barrel Roll - "...the player may declare a barrel in the other direction, or he may declare a different action."

Boost - "...the player may declare a different maneuver template or direction to use, or he may declare a different action."

A boost or barrel roll action is still that action, whether Dash' ability is in effect or not, so if you cannot boost/roll in the direction you first declared, as per competitive play rules regarding declaring direction, then you must either go to a different, legal area, or choose a different action altogether.

As far as casual play rules are concerned, I have found no rules saying that a different action must be declared if your boost/roll action cannot land your ship in a legal area. So I see no nothing specifically denying Dash from being able to choose performing the same action, this time with his ability, if the first attempt could not land you in a legal area. However, I may have missed something? But I would assume that the point of the FAQ was also to keep players from being able to perform the same action twice as you have suggested, even in casual play. That just seems... wrong, IMHO. It doesn't really mesh up with how it works with competitive play. But unless there is something I am missing for casual play regarding this, I believe another FAQ ruling is required stating whether it is wrong or not.

If there are any rules that I am overlooking that contradict my interpretation of how this works, then please enlighten my ignorance.

that's like saying farlander cannot spend stress if there are no focus results because it is not "defined" on the card.

Might play a game tomorrow with Dash.

Have I understood it correctly that the official answer is (for competitive play) :

1. Declare barrel roll to one side.

2. Before measuring declare if you are using ability.

3. If you are NOT using ability and it DOESN'T work you cannot declare same side again.

Not exactly, there is still a disagreement. It has mostly to do with competitive scene but in my experience there are some "competitive" players that suck the enjoyment out of the game because they don't enjoy a game that they don't win. So to be honest I usually stay out of competitive scenes just to avoid those players.

*Edit: I meant opposite direction, not opposite action.

And the reason it feels wrong, for me, to do it in casual play, is because it just seems like a loop hole in rules. It doesn't make sense to me that it would work in an almost completely opposite way as how I interpret it's use in competitive play. But I could be wrong. The FAQ coud use more clarification.