This was the 3rd question regarding wave 5 ships and upgrade cards found in the wave. I have not received an answer on any of them yet. We may have to wait until the FAQ gets updated.

Let's just hope they give a generic answer regarding whether you have to use "may" abilities if it would allow you to comply with a "must" ability.

Speaking of which, if Biggs was behind Nera, and she had Deadeye, a focus token, and a torpedo, I suppose she'd be compelled to shoot him with it rather than use her primary weapon to shoot forwards.

Edit: I am wrong and it does seem to work like this. Scary.

Let's just hope they give a generic answer regarding whether you have to use "may" abilities if it would allow you to comply with a "must" ability.

Speaking of which, if Biggs was behind Nera, and she had Deadeye, a focus token, and a torpedo, I suppose she'd be compelled to shoot him with it rather than use her primary weapon to shoot forwards.

She is not required to shoot Biggs if she attempts to target someone range 2 in front of her. Since Biggs will not activate as he is not at range 1 of her target.

In terms of shooting someone in arc who is range 1 of Biggs. I think she would not have to shoot Biggs with the torp. She could fail the "may" check on her ability if he is out of her arc. Since unlike turrets her ability is a "may". As a note turret upgrades specifically state "Attack: Attack 1 ship (even a ship outside your firing arc)." and turret primaries state "When attacking with a turret primary weapon, a ship may target an enemy ship inside or outside its firing arc.". So neither allow a choice to target inside or outside of firing arc. Thus she can decide to just use her APT on her original choice of target.

Note that this raises a question on Deadeye too.

Assume Nera has focus, target lock on Y-wing outside arc at range 1 who themselves is at range 1 of Biggs who is also range 1 of Nera, and an APT. You declare Target as Y-wing. Now how do you determine if you must shoot Biggs? I should target Biggs, but I only do that if I activate Deadeye which I don't have to do (since it is a "may" ability). But am I forced to use Deadeye is the question?

What if I have 2 focus and no target lock? I can still decide that I will not use Deadeye when considering Biggs as a target, but can I then decide to use it when considering the Y-wing as target?

All interesting questions - but not really related to this one!

Let's just hope they give a generic answer regarding whether you have to use "may" abilities if it would allow you to comply with a "must" ability.

Speaking of which, if Biggs was behind Nera, and she had Deadeye, a focus token, and a torpedo, I suppose she'd be compelled to shoot him with it rather than use her primary weapon to shoot forwards.

She is not required to shoot Biggs if she attempts to target someone range 2 in front of her. Since Biggs will not activate as he is not at range 1 of her target.

If she can, in any way, shape, or form, shoot at Biggs, she has to shoot at Biggs. So I think in this case she clearly would have to spend the focus token using deadeye, and shoot the torpedo at Biggs.

The whole point of Biggs is that she is not allowed to target someone at range 2 in front of her. Her ability that she "may" fire secondaries outside her primary arc in this case turns into "must" because Biggs forces it. Likewise any ship "may" perform a primary attack against any target in her main arc, but if Biggs is also in arc then you must shoot at Biggs.

I agree with MajorJuggler. The "may" becoming "must" when required is certainly an important point, I'd say from a purely linguistic perspective that "may" means you can, therefore if you're "compelled do something if you can do it", then you're compelled to do it. So she'd be compelled to use her torp and focus if she could, a turret would be compelled to use that, a Firespray would be compelled to use it's rear arc (I've always played that with Firesprays and Falcons vs Biggs). If we accept that, then I'd say we have to accept that Dash has to use his ability to overlap the obstacle too.

You know I always forget Biggs has to be at range 1 of his friends to protect them (well, I say always, I've only used him a couple of times) - it cost me a game the other day when I flew Corran off on his own

****, I bet I've also targeted Biggs when I didn't have to cos I forgot about the Range 1 thing when playing against him! Oh well, if you're gonna spend some attacks against him you might as well focus till he's dead anyway...

Let's just hope they give a generic answer regarding whether you have to use "may" abilities if it would allow you to comply with a "must" ability.

Speaking of which, if Biggs was behind Nera, and she had Deadeye, a focus token, and a torpedo, I suppose she'd be compelled to shoot him with it rather than use her primary weapon to shoot forwards.

She is not required to shoot Biggs if she attempts to target someone range 2 in front of her. Since Biggs will not activate as he is not at range 1 of her target.

If she can, in any way, shape, or form, shoot at Biggs, she has to shoot at Biggs. So I think in this case she clearly would have to spend the focus token using deadeye, and shoot the torpedo at Biggs.

The whole point of Biggs is that she is not allowed to target someone at range 2 in front of her. Her ability that she "may" fire secondaries outside her primary arc in this case turns into "must" because Biggs forces it. Likewise any ship "may" perform a primary attack against any target in her main arc, but if Biggs is also in arc then you must shoot at Biggs.

Well, Biggs only protects people that are within R1 of him. So, she would be allowed to target someone outside of R1 of Biggs if the target is in front of her. She's only forced to fire the secondary at Biggs if all other rebel ships are within Biggs and Biggs is behind her. So, in the case above, she is allowed to shoot at the target at R2 since it will likely be outside of Biggs's R1 if he's behind her.

Well, Biggs only protects people that are within R1 of him. So, she would be allowed to target someone outside of R1 of Biggs if the target is in front of her. She's only forced to fire the secondary at Biggs if all other rebel ships are within Biggs and Biggs is behind her. So, in the case above, she is allowed to shoot at the target at R2 since it will likely be outside of Biggs's R1 if he's behind her.

Behind her was just an example - he only needs to be out of her arc by a hair's breadth.

Let's just hope they give a generic answer regarding whether you have to use "may" abilities if it would allow you to comply with a "must" ability.

Speaking of which, if Biggs was behind Nera, and she had Deadeye, a focus token, and a torpedo, I suppose she'd be compelled to shoot him with it rather than use her primary weapon to shoot forwards.

She is not required to shoot Biggs if she attempts to target someone range 2 in front of her. Since Biggs will not activate as he is not at range 1 of her target.

If she can, in any way, shape, or form, shoot at Biggs, she has to shoot at Biggs. So I think in this case she clearly would have to spend the focus token using deadeye, and shoot the torpedo at Biggs.

The whole point of Biggs is that she is not allowed to target someone at range 2 in front of her. Her ability that she "may" fire secondaries outside her primary arc in this case turns into "must" because Biggs forces it. Likewise any ship "may" perform a primary attack against any target in her main arc, but if Biggs is also in arc then you must shoot at Biggs.

Well, Biggs only protects people that are within R1 of him. So, she would be allowed to target someone outside of R1 of Biggs if the target is in front of her. She's only forced to fire the secondary at Biggs if all other rebel ships are within Biggs and Biggs is behind her. So, in the case above, she is allowed to shoot at the target at R2 since it will likely be outside of Biggs's R1 if he's behind her.

Brain fart! My eyeballs / brain glossed over that. I was just assuming that Biggs was also in R1 of the target in front of her as well.

Well, Biggs only protects people that are within R1 of him. So, she would be allowed to target someone outside of R1 of Biggs if the target is in front of her. She's only forced to fire the secondary at Biggs if all other rebel ships are within Biggs and Biggs is behind her. So, in the case above, she is allowed to shoot at the target at R2 since it will likely be outside of Biggs's R1 if he's behind her.

Behind her was just an example - he only needs to be out of her arc by a hair's breadth.

Sure, but it seemed like some people were missing the R1 limitation

Sneaky I would think.

And yet you are missing the meat of my point. We don't have a ruling that you are required to activate an optional ability under a must ruling. (The closest we get is Biggs and using a turret weapon - but that is different in that the use of a turret weapon is not an optional ability - it is a method of attack - now you could argue that Nera's ability is a form of attack but then meh!)

Note also that Biggs does not protect a target if he can't be shot. So Range 3 Biggs out of arc doesn't prevent you shooting a range 2 target (who is at range 1 of Biggs) with a turret upgrade.

Sure, but it seemed like some people were missing the R1 limitation

Good, I'm glad people other than me do that!

Let's just hope they give a generic answer regarding whether you have to use "may" abilities if it would allow you to comply with a "must" ability.

Speaking of which, if Biggs was behind Nera, and she had Deadeye, a focus token, and a torpedo, I suppose she'd be compelled to shoot him with it rather than use her primary weapon to shoot forwards.

Assuming that the other potential target is within Bigg's ability range Nera would have to shoot at Biggs although she may choose to forgo any attacks. If Biggs can be a target then nothing within R1 of him can be the target.

And yet you are missing the meat of my point. We don't have a ruling that you are required to activate an optional ability under a must ruling. (The closest we get is Biggs and using a turret weapon - but that is different in that the use of a turret weapon is not an optional ability - it is a method of attack - now you could argue that Nera's ability is a form of attack but then meh!)

Note also that Biggs does not protect a target if he can't be shot. So Range 3 Biggs out of arc doesn't prevent you shooting a range 2 target (who is at range 1 of Biggs) with a turret upgrade.

We don't have a ruling, but the language is pretty clear: if you have an optional ability that makes performing action x possible, then action x is possible for you. If you're then told "perform action x if possible" it's pretty clear what language has to say on the matter.

I agree with MajorJuggler. The "may" becoming "must" when required is certainly an important point, I'd say from a purely linguistic perspective that "may" means you can, therefore if you're "compelled do something if you can do it", then you're compelled to do it. So she'd be compelled to use her torp and focus if she could, a turret would be compelled to use that, a Firespray would be compelled to use it's rear arc (I've always played that with Firesprays and Falcons vs Biggs). If we accept that, then I'd say we have to accept that Dash has to use his ability to overlap the obstacle too.

That's another valid interpretation, I had not thought of it that way. If you declare the barrel roll direction, then with Dash you HAVE to take it unless you wuld overlap a ship. In other words "may" in this case is not a conditional choice on the player's part, it is simply stating that it is possible. Under that reading, it nerfs his ability even more. And technically he can't choose to take damage from landing on a rock after completing a maneuver, although I don't know why you would ever want to do that.

now you could argue that Nera's ability is a form of attack but then meh!

But it is, at least the same way a Turret is. The text of Nera is...

You can perform Torpedo secondary weapon attacks against enemy ships outside your firing arc.

There's no May there, just the fact that you can shoot a torp outside your arc. It's not really an optional ability, it's a always on effect, the same as a turret is. So I'd say yes, if Biggs is a valid target, in R1, ect... and Nera has a torp she'd have to shoot at him, if possible.

The other question is, if she had Deadeye and a focus would she have to use it? I'd be inclined to say yes, if it's possible for her to shoot Biggs she must.

If you declare the barrel roll direction, then with Dash you HAVE to take it unless you wuld overlap a ship.

But, and I think it's important to make the distinction... That is only true if you're required to make the barrel roll in the first place.

That's another valid interpretation, I had not thought of it that way. If you declare the barrel roll direction, then with Dash you HAVE to take it unless you wuld overlap a ship. In other words "may" in this case is not a conditional choice on the player's part, it is simply stating that it is possible. Under that reading, it nerfs his ability even more. And technically he can't choose to take damage from landing on a rock after completing a maneuver, although I don't know why you would ever want to do that.

It's not really that bad a nerf is it? It's tricky with boosts sometimes, but is it that hard to predict where a big ship would be after a barrel roll? Harder than with small ships I suppose. At least it's only a 2.5 movement now instead of a 3, easier to picture maybe.

Indeed, "may" is a funny one here. The only was to choose not to ignore obstacles is by choosing to completely avoid them, which is exactly the same as choosing to ignore them but not overlap them anyway.

The other question is, if she had Deadeye and a focus would she have to use it? I'd be inclined to say yes, if it's possible for her to shoot Biggs she must.

Or not shoot at all, which she may find preferable.

Yeah, I think the range 1 formation needs to be emphasized because I forgot about it too. Also, to avoid the Dantels issue, you can Target Lock the target out of your firing arc instead of using Deadeye Focus. This requires more range preparation, but it's an option to counter Biggs.

True, if you knew you'd be facing him, but Deadeye on her's just too tempting to not take otherwise, isn't it?

True, if you knew you'd be facing him, but Deadeye on her's just too tempting to not take otherwise, isn't it?

It is, but Biggs formation can be predictable, so if you can intentionally turn your arc away from the formation Nera can TL a value target with Biggs unable to take the heat. Nera actually seems like a good counter to Biggs! Add in the 2 K and you might be able to just get cute with an early K at opening joust.

FFG really needs to hire some new game designers. The only thing consistent about their cards at this point is the consistently terrible wording.

You realize that this is the third set of game designers working on this game, currently, right?

And that most of the problems you encounter, even on newer content, actually stem back to the core rulebook, and not to the expansions. Most of the wordings on most of the cards is actually fine. There are a few confusing or ambiguous ones, but those are mostly confusing and/or ambiguous due to the core rule book being inadequate.

True, if you knew you'd be facing him, but Deadeye on her's just too tempting to not take otherwise, isn't it?

It is, but Biggs formation can be predictable, so if you can intentionally turn your arc away from the formation Nera can TL a value target with Biggs unable to take the heat. Nera actually seems like a good counter to Biggs! Add in the 2 K and you might be able to just get cute with an early K at opening joust.

Oh, I'm being dumb - I was thinking you'd have to not take Deadeye for that to work, but of course you'd only have to not have a focus token!