It's obviously not fine if there's this much confusion about how to resolve it. The game doesn't need more FAQ entries, it needs a more detailed rulebook - one that covers triggers and timing windows in better detail, preferably. Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

Theres no confusion here! :-)

Meet the prerequisite for the ability and you "may" opt to use that ability. If you haven't met that prerequisite, then why wouldn't Dash treat landing on an obstacle like everyone else? Seems pretty straight forward to me.

The prerequisite here being that your opting to take the roll action landing on the obstacle, not just taking the pre-measure.

I told my daughter tonight she must eat her dinner then she may have some ice cream. If she eats her dinner must she have ice cream?

Yes and it must have at least two flavours and sprinkles, it may also have a sparkler.

Flavours are bubblegum, banana candy & musk yes to the sprinkles but all out of sparklers

I told my daughter tonight she must eat her dinner then she may have some ice cream. If she eats her dinner must she have ice cream?

Only if she eats her dinner on an asteroid.

Hard enough to make her sit on a chair

I told my daughter tonight she must eat her dinner then she may have some ice cream. If she eats her dinner must she have ice cream?

I mean it's Ice cream, of course it's a must.

Tonight it wasn't she didn't eat her dinner now she's in bed and I'm eating ice cream

It's obviously not fine if there's this much confusion about how to resolve it. The game doesn't need more FAQ entries, it needs a more detailed rulebook - one that covers triggers and timing windows in better detail, preferably. Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

I agree. Taking it one step further ... I also play other FFG games (such as Descent), and one thing my players have always asked for is for FFG to create an appendix called "Definition of Terms". If they did this, and defined all major terms, their FAQs would probably be 1/10th their current size.

Meet the prerequisite for the ability and you "may" opt to use that ability. If you haven't met that prerequisite, then why wouldn't Dash treat landing on an obstacle like everyone else? Seems pretty straight forward to me.

The prerequisite here being that your opting to take the roll action landing on the obstacle, not just taking the pre-measure.

A better word for prerequisite in this circumstance would be trigger, or triggering event. The first half of Dash's ability is very vague - it doesn't specify how or when the ability triggers, only that it does so during the Activation phase. The second half is actually less vague. Taking an action becomes the trigger, so if there's a choice involved, it would have to be at the outset. There's some talk floating around about how measuring isn't part of the barrel roll, and that's not entirely correct. Once you declare a barrel roll, you've committed to that specific action, and measuring is part of it. The problem is that X-Wing has some bizarre timing windows, and the game permits you to retroactively cancel your declared action if it turns out to be illegal.

Meet the prerequisite for the ability and you "may" opt to use that ability. If you haven't met that prerequisite, then why wouldn't Dash treat landing on an obstacle like everyone else? Seems pretty straight forward to me.

The prerequisite here being that your opting to take the roll action landing on the obstacle, not just taking the pre-measure.

A better word for prerequisite in this circumstance would be trigger, or triggering event. The first half of Dash's ability is very vague - it doesn't specify how or when the ability triggers, only that it does so during the Activation phase. The second half is actually less vague. Taking an action becomes the trigger, so if there's a choice involved, it would have to be at the outset. There's some talk floating around about how measuring isn't part of the barrel roll, and that's complete bologna. Once you declare a barrel roll, you've committed to that specific action, and measuring is part of it. The problem is that X-Wing has some bizarre timing windows, and the game permits you to retroactively cancel your declared action if it turns out to be illegal.

However, if that barrel roll lands you on an obstacle then you are not held to that action, effectively negating the trigger for Dash' ability.

No where in the rules defining how to barrel roll does it say that declaring the barrel roll means your initiating the action. The point of the pre-measure is to find out if you can take the barrel roll action. If you cant because of an obstacle, then you may not declare said barrel roll. However with Dash' ability you "may" opt to choose that as your action effectively triggering his ability.

Dash's ability would trigger at the point that you declare your action, which would be before any measuring takes place. Once you declare it, you're committed.

The text in the FAQ seems pretty clear to me. "When performing a barrel roll..." indicates that you are already in the process of performing said action, and the text then describes in what order you resolve it, beginning with the measurement.

I think Dash's wording is clear if the ruling goes as I think it should. If it doesn't, we better get a new rulebook, errata, FAQ, and they better send me a new card with the proper text!

But measuring doesn't mean you can take the action and the measurement is not part of the action unless it is a valid action.

Can you just measure without taking the action? Try throwing down the 1-straight template at a tournament and see where that gets you.

"What are you doing?"

"Seeing if I can make this barrel roll."

"Are you taking a barrel roll action?"

"I don't know, I'm thinking about it."

"Then I repeat, what the hell are you doing?"

I know my long post was TLDR, I just didn't want to chain post. You can premeasure a barrel roll to a degree by placing templates to gauge to positioning of the roll. If you want to lift your base and complete the roll you must declare the action and direction. If your base gets obstructed then you get the take back.

I understand how some think that the measurement is part of the action because it kind of is IF it is a legal action. But the measure is ultimately to see if the action is valid. If not that its like getting a pass and allowing you to opt out of said action. I think Dash' ability would have said something like "you must ignore obstacles when taking actions" if it meant to keep you from being able to take that pass.

Dash's ability would trigger at the point that you declare your action, which would be before any measuring takes place. Once you declare it, you're committed.

The text in the FAQ seems pretty clear to me. "When performing a barrel roll..." indicates that you are already in the process of performing said action, and the text then describes in what order you resolve it, beginning with the measurement.

I actually disagree with you there - why should he declare the use of his ability at the start of the action? Han doesn't have to declare he is going to re-roll all his dice when he declares an attack. That is a similar "when" trigger.

I understand how some think that the measurement is part of the action because it kind of is IF it is a legal action. But the measure is ultimately to see if the action is valid. If not that its like getting a pass and allowing you to opt out of said action. I think Dash' ability would have said something like "you must ignore obstacles when taking actions" if it meant to keep you from being able to take that pass.

And there's the problem. Actual wording and intent do not always match.

Dash's ability would trigger at the point that you declare your action, which would be before any measuring takes place. Once you declare it, you're committed.

The text in the FAQ seems pretty clear to me. "When performing a barrel roll..." indicates that you are already in the process of performing said action, and the text then describes in what order you resolve it, beginning with the measurement.

I actually disagree with you there - why should he declare the use of his ability at the start of the action? Han doesn't have to declare he is going to re-roll all his dice when he declares an attack. That is a similar "when" trigger.

There's a clearly delineated portion of the rules that tell us when we can modify dice. The problem here is that there is no set of universal steps for resolving an action. So, the only way to read the "when" trigger is "as soon as," not "during."

Can you just measure without taking the action? Try throwing down the 1-straight template at a tournament and see where that gets you.

"What are you doing?"

"Seeing if I can make this barrel roll."

"Are you taking a barrel roll action?"

"I don't know, I'm thinking about it."

"Then I repeat, what the hell are you doing?"

I know my long post was TLDR, I just didn't want to chain post. You can premeasure a barrel roll to a degree by placing templates to gauge to positioning of the roll. If you want to lift your base and complete the roll you must declare the action and direction. If your base gets obstructed then you get the take back.

Sorry, this was suppose to be a response to a different post.

Can you just measure without taking the action? Try throwing down the 1-straight template at a tournament and see where that gets you.

"What are you doing?"

"Seeing if I can make this barrel roll."

"Are you taking a barrel roll action?"

"I don't know, I'm thinking about it."

"Then I repeat, what the hell are you doing?"

According to the rules, you CAN throw down the 1 template to measure, you just cant move your model.

After you commit to your action you can. Throwing down your template at any other time is cheating.

I know my long post was TLDR, I just didn't want to chain post. You can premeasure a barrel roll to a degree by placing templates to gauge to positioning of the roll. If you want to lift your base and complete the roll you must declare the action and direction. If your base gets obstructed then you get the take back.

Thats not what the rules say. Look at the rules for Barrel roll. Your allowed to mlve the model to see if it overlaps. If it does then you can't perform the action. That right there says that even though you have declared a barrel roll, you have not actually taken the action.

Can you just measure without taking the action? Try throwing down the 1-straight template at a tournament and see where that gets you.

"What are you doing?"

"Seeing if I can make this barrel roll."

"Are you taking a barrel roll action?"

"I don't know, I'm thinking about it."

"Then I repeat, what the hell are you doing?"

According to the rules, you CAN throw down the 1 template to measure, you just cant move your model.

After you commit to your action you can. Throwing down your template at any other time is cheating.

The rulebook says a lot of things that don't pertain to competitive play. Unless we're talking kitchen table scenarios, you need to read the FAQ. It's on page 9.

I never liked that you could cancel a Barrel roll if it caused you to land on an Asteroid. I mean, just watch where you're flying, if you crash, too bad for you. If you do a turn and slam into a rock, you don't get to switch to a straight to avoid overlapping either.

The rulebook says a lot of things that don't pertain to competitive play. Unless we're talking kitchen table scenarios, you need to read the FAQ. It's on page 9.

I already pasted the barrel roll related paragraph from the FAQ in this thread. How I read it is you may do the template premeasure before committing as stated in the rulebook, then if you decide to follow through an take the BR action you do so in the way described on the competitive play FAQ.

I understand how some think that the measurement is part of the action because it kind of is IF it is a legal action. But the measure is ultimately to see if the action is valid. If not that its like getting a pass and allowing you to opt out of said action. I think Dash' ability would have said something like "you must ignore obstacles when taking actions" if it meant to keep you from being able to take that pass.

And there's the problem. Actual wording and intent do not always match.

Dash's ability would trigger at the point that you declare your action, which would be before any measuring takes place. Once you declare it, you're committed.

The text in the FAQ seems pretty clear to me. "When performing a barrel roll..." indicates that you are already in the process of performing said action, and the text then describes in what order you resolve it, beginning with the measurement.

I actually disagree with you there - why should he declare the use of his ability at the start of the action? Han doesn't have to declare he is going to re-roll all his dice when he declares an attack. That is a similar "when" trigger.

There's a clearly delineated portion of the rules that tell us when we can modify dice. The problem here is that there is no set of universal steps for resolving an action. So, the only way to read the "when" trigger is "as soon as," not "during."

Why should it be as soon as? We have a time when you must consider overlapping obstacles, it comes when you measure and you overlap them. Till then you don't have to declare anything about what you are doing. So no declaration about his ability till the trigger which is "Here is an obstacle I am overlapping". In most situations that would mean cancelling the action at that point. For Dash, at that point, he can choose to ignore the obstacle. He is not required to.

I don't see this as at all complicated.