Sure that's plenty special, he didn't roll for damage and still had an action!

But it does mean you still have to think about clipping rocks. Which is good.

Sure that's plenty special, he didn't roll for damage and still had an action!

But it does mean you still have to think about clipping rocks. Which is good.

I must agree with Juggler here. Special abilities don't have to be 100% upside 100% of the time, especially ones as potent as this one is.

I'm glad you're providing the images Oso. I think it's also important to note that the designers intended for the Outrider donut hole and Dash's ability seems intended to offset that to a degree.

Sure that's plenty special, he didn't roll for damage and still had an action!

But it does mean you still have to think about clipping rocks. Which is good.

I know I keep picking on Howlrunner, but it's the closing thing I can find at this point ( I will look for another "may" ability after this one).

She says "When another friendly ship at range 1 is attacking with its primary weapon, it may reroll 1 attack die". Ok, we know she always has a swarm by her ability on the first of many does every ship have to reroll? if you choose not to reroll does no ship get to reroll? now I'm off to find a better example...............

My thought is that he gets to choose left or right and then he goes. If there is a rock there he may land on it meaning the roll in that direction was perfectly legal as opposed to the case where one can not ignore the rocks and thus having the BR be voided because it was illegal.

I suspect the whole "take back" mechanic in the tournament rule is simply to allow a player to avoid illegal maneuvers without penalty for wanting to do them but then figuring out they can't because of strict measuring rules. With Dash that BR is now a legal maneuver so once you decide to do it you're going to go.

Howlrunner's ability triggers on a per-friendly-ship basis though. Not even "every ship this round may reroll 1 die", its per each friendly ship.

That said I still think you will out fly me again when we have a rematch, even if I don't bring shuttles. :-D

My thought is that he gets to choose left or right and then he goes. If there is a rock there he may land on it meaning the roll in that direction was perfectly legal as opposed to the case where one can not ignore the rocks and thus having the BR be voided because it was illegal.

I suspect the whole "take back" mechanic in the tournament rule is simply to allow a player to avoid illegal maneuvers without penalty for wanting to do them but then figuring out they can't because of strict measuring rules. With Dash that BR is now a legal maneuver so once you decide to do it you're going to go.

Honestly, I feel if a player makes a mistake and declares a Barrel Roll and it happen to hit a rock, so be it lose your attack and roll for damage. It makes more sense thematically, it also clears all the rules up and misunderstandings.

Here is another example of a "May" that could have multiple triggers. Captain Yorr, says "When another friendly ship at Range 1-2 would receive a stress token, if you have 2 or fewer stress tokens, you may receive that token instead."

Howlrunner's ability triggers on a per-friendly-ship basis though. Not even "every ship this round may reroll 1 die", its per each friendly ship.

That said I still think you will out fly me again when we have a rematch, even if I don't bring shuttles. :-D

I look forward when we can do that again some time.

Here is another example of a "May" that could have multiple triggers. Captain Yorr, says "When another friendly ship at Range 1-2 would receive a stress token, if you have 2 or fewer stress tokens, you may receive that token instead."

Not really. The only trigger is "When another friendly ship at Range 1-2 would receive a stress token". Everything else is either a condition to be met after the ability activates (having less than 2 stress tokens) and the payoff (receiving the stress token).

Not really. The only trigger is "When another friendly ship at Range 1-2 would receive a stress token". Everything else is either a condition to be met after the ability activates (having less than 2 stress tokens) and the payoff (receiving the stress token).

yeah I agree, it's just another that could have multiple May effects in a turn. More or Less i just want FFG to cover this during their FAQ. Sometimes they miss things, if they are not pointed out.

I look upon what I have wrought, and I am content.

I'm clearly in the 'may' camp being that you may attempt to barrel roll. If you would overlap and obstacle in all possible barrel roll positions, at that point you may choose whether to barrel roll or not by invoking Dash's 'may' clause. If you could place Dash without overlapping, however, you are committed to that direction.

Yeah that is how it goes. Exactly how.

You are performing the action, so you get to choose at that moment. So yeah, you can choose when to activate his ability or cancel the barrel roll with rocks.

I know I keep picking on Howlrunner, but it's the closing thing I can find at this point ( I will look for another "may" ability after this one).

She says "When another friendly ship at range 1 is attacking with its primary weapon, it may reroll 1 attack die". Ok, we know she always has a swarm by her ability on the first of many does every ship have to reroll? if you choose not to reroll does no ship get to reroll? now I'm off to find a better example...............

The trigger for Howlrunner is another friendly ship attacking. Each new ship attacking triggers her ability again.

The difference between Howlrunner and Dash is that Howlrunner isn't really providing an ongoing effect. It gives you the option to do something, but when you do that is strictly defined by the rules. You can't reroll the die in Step 2 (Roll Attack Dice) or Step 5 (Modify Defense Dice). Rerolls obviously still have to have dice to affect, so you can't declare it right when the ability triggers at the start of the attack. Dash is different because it's an ongoing effect which takes effect the instant you meet the trigger condition, because there is no other restriction.

Basically, you have to make the choice at the point the effect would actually do something. For Howlrunner, that means when you have the option to reroll the die. For Dash, it's immediate (he doesn't have to be touching an obstacle to ignore it).

Now I'll freely grant that this is fuzzy. We simply don't have timing rules to this level of detail, and FFG will call it as they like. But I think it's consistent with multiple other effects and rulings.

And more from the FAQ: ...If the ship can perform the barrel roll action, it must do so.

This is the important point to me, because it doesn't leave any wiggle room as far as I can see. In competitive play, if you declare a barrel roll and it is possible, you MUST perform it. The only way I can see that Dash would be allowed to choose not to use his ability is if they rewrite the FAQ (which is of course possible).

In the first example, you choose your action before you measure to check locations. You've chosen Barrel Roll as your action. You then execute that action. If you can't perform the action in the direction you wanted because of an obstacle, then you get no action. In the case of Dash Rendar, you can still choose to either ignore the obstacle and move onto it, or barrel roll in a different direction. You can't change the action you've chosen after the fact.

In that case it doesn't really matter. You can decide to not activate Dash's ability after you've seen the location, but you're still locked into doing the Barrel Roll action. You just have to choose another final position.

If you choose not to activate Dash's ability on a barrel roll due to an obstacle you are not forced to Barrel roll in the other direction, you get to choose a different action.

I wouldn't say so. You chose Barrel Roll as your action. That's what you do.

But you also declare a direction. If there's no valid barrel in that direction you can take it back rather than having to barrel the the other way.

Remember this would only work if every barrel location on that side was asteroid blocked. Huge bases have a fair bit of mobility.

So is the sky falling or not I can't tell, why isn't anyone yelling?

I think the faq is pretty clear it says you must if able and with dash you are always able, we will need an official ruling.

Main rule book page 19 states that unless a card ability uses the word "may" or has "Action" or "Attack", headers, then the ability is mandatory. In the Rules Clarifications section of the FAQ on page 8 reads that Abilities resolve once per opportunity. So Oshoroshi scenario sounds legit and his conclusions are sound.

Now let me complicate it more. Lets say at first Dash maneuver template overlaps a debris cloud. He can use his ability to ignore it and not take the stress. Now for his action he does a barrel roll to the right but no matter where the movement template is placed he will overlap an asteroid. This is a separate opportunity so in resolving the ability he uses the "may" which states it is not mandatory and declare that Dash cannot perform the action in which dash may choose a different direction or a different action, even if he already used that ability in the same phase.

So order of precedent within turn are effects which leads to opportunities in which abilities are triggered. They can occur in different or same parts of a phase. So in there could be multiple opportunities in a single phase, where as the separate phases in order comprise a turn.

Dash's card reads fairly simple to me.

He may ignore obstacles when performing an action.

If Dash lands on an asteroid after measuring a declared barrel roll action, he can rewind and choose another action.

Instead, if he wants to stay parked on the rock, good luck to him during the combat phase.

Remember, Page 20 of the Rule Book: "Some abilities on cards conflict with the general rules. In case of a conflict, card text overrides the general rules."

To be safe, you could just always say "im gonna attempt to barrel roll left and not use Dash's ability" to your opponent. If it works, then you roll, no pain off your back. If it doesn't, then you can choose to barrel roll again stating, "im gonna barrel roll left using Dash's ability as well".

On second thought, I don't agree fully with that. You should be able to decide this any time you want. For example, you attempt a roll, see that you can either choose to be on a rock, or choose to be odd of it. If you go on the rock, itll ket you boost out of an arc, so you choose to land on the rock and boost, using Dash's ability, of course.

The "may" will very likely make this the case, I believe.

I told my daughter tonight she must eat her dinner then she may have some ice cream. If she eats her dinner must she have ice cream?

I read Dash's ability as. During the activation phase and when performing actions, any time I overlap an obstacle, I may choose to ignore that obstacle.

I don't have to ignore it since the ability is an optional one because of the use of may. Thus I may declare that I cannot complete the roll and perform a different action.

I don't have to use the ability on or off for the whole phase. Just imagine Dash receives a free action from Airen Cracken in combat phase. He can barrel roll then, must you respect any decision made in the activation phase about his ability? Surely not.

As to the question of tournament rules. Yes it you declare a barrel roll/boost and can complete it in any way you must. But if you overlap you cannot complete. For Dash he can only complete if he decides to activate his ability. If he doesn't then the roll fails.

edit: delete trailing text fragment

FFG really needs to hire some new game designers. The only thing consistent about their cards at this point is the consistently terrible wording. To completely remove any ambiguity, this is how it should have been worded:

During the Activation phase, whenever Dash Rendar or his movement template would overlap one or more obstacles, he may choose to ignore those obstacles until the end of the phase.

Whenever Dash Rendar performs an action, he may choose to ignore obstacles for the duration of that action.

I told my daughter tonight she must eat her dinner then she may have some ice cream. If she eats her dinner must she have ice cream?

Yes and it must have at least two flavours and sprinkles, it may also have a sparkler.

I told my daughter tonight she must eat her dinner then she may have some ice cream. If she eats her dinner must she have ice cream?

I told my daughter tonight she must eat her dinner then she may have some ice cream. If she eats her dinner must she have ice cream?

FFG really needs to hire some new game designers. The only thing consistent about their cards at this point is the consistently terrible wording. To completely remove any ambiguity, this is how it should have been worded:

During the Activation phase, whenever Dash Rendar or his movement template would overlap one or more obstacles, he may choose to ignore those obstacles until the end of the phase.

Whenever Dash Rendar performs an action, he may choose to ignore obstacles for the duration of that action.