Does anyone get the impression that they created Salvaged Astromechs just because the good guy droids like R2-D2 don't have the "Rebel Only" text?

If R2 and other Rebel specific beep boopers had that text I don't think the Scum would have a separate upgrade for droids.

They obviously don't want the Scum faction using R2-D2 because that doesn't make any sense thematically.

That said I want the Scum droids to have eye patches and smoking cigars and stuff.

Yes.

Potentially. I think there's at least a possibility it's a reaction, but likewise, this means that the Rebel ships can't use the new upgrade droids either. It's a way to keep at least some of the new upgrades from crossing factions ONLY into Rebs. Now, if Imperials used droids like the Rebels do, then it'd be no issue. Because droids are only a Rebel thing, it could possibly make them OP compared to Imperial, and likewise for Scum if they could all of the sudden use all the Reb droids.

Jacob

Its probably to keep the diferent ability separate from faction to faction. The scum allready ave 3 rebel and 1 empire ship if they equip normal astromec the similitude would be off the chart.Thematiclly im not happy about that. Nothing, in theory, prevent the reble to purchase "salvage astromec" and vice verca . So we juste ave to be confident in the FFG team did that to maximise the fun factor and competitivness between two diferent faction.

I'm sure it'll all work out. I don't see why it'd be so hard to reprint some of the upgrades, like R2D2, to include the Rebel Only stuff. Wouldn't be that expensive. Maybe they'll toss an FAQ note saying which ones are faction-specific.

However, I'm fairly certain that Salvaged 'mechs will be for scum only. The Y-wings will have different pilot cards on them with the Salvaged 'mech upgrade on it, so it's really not a big deal.

Yes, I suspect that additional factions were not on the designer's mind and that astromechs were always meant to be Rebel-only in a two-sided game. But salvaged astromechs are a pretty elegant solution. We know that Scum will be the only ships with a salvaged astromech slot for a while, and it opens up the possibility of limited exchanges, such as an astromech upgrade card that adds a salvaged astromech slot, or a salvaged astromech upgrade that lets you carry a non-unique astromech (or something like that).

If the problem were really just R2-D2, it would be easy enough to errata him (and a few others) to "Rebel Only".

I suspect it's a broader issue of design space. If they didn't separate the factional astromechs, anything they wanted to add for the Scum Y-wing becomes a potential card for the X-, Y-, and E-wings for the Rebels. The X-wing is obviously a stronger ship, but I think other upgrades available on the E-wing are an even bigger complication as they open a large number of potential combos.

If the problem were really just R2-D2, it would be easy enough to errata him (and a few others) to "Rebel Only".

I suspect it's a broader issue of design space. If they didn't separate the factional astromechs, anything they wanted to add for the Scum Y-wing becomes a potential card for the X-, Y-, and E-wings for the Rebels. The X-wing is obviously a stronger ship, but I think other upgrades available on the E-wing are an even bigger complication as they open a large number of potential combos.

Completely agree here. I would really have liked to see interoperability between Scum astromechs and Rebel astromechs, because thematically there's no reason at all for them to be distinct--but mechanically, there are a lot of good reasons to keep the two design spaces as separate as possible. (One of those reasons has a giant porn 'stache and dies early and often.)

I imagine one of the reasons for having s&v mechs is that the y wing is the same sculpt and moulding as the rebel one so if the model clearly has one it makes sense to allow it as an ungrade.

Otherwise they would have to make two versions of Y wing, much eaiser to print card than remodel the steel moulds

I think it is a way to keep scum and rebels apart. They fly some of the same ships but they have different astromechs to differentiate them.

I'm fine with this, because if I wanted my Y-Wings to fly the same as Gold and Grey Squadron I'd just stick to the Rebellion anyway. I'm GLAD there will be a difference between the two faction's astromech units, it will make them function in their own way. What I'm curious about is will there be a possibility of having other ships that use Salvaged Droids in the future for Scum, and if there is, what ships will use them? :3

I'm fine with this, because if I wanted my Y-Wings to fly the same as Gold and Grey Squadron I'd just stick to the Rebellion anyway. I'm GLAD there will be a difference between the two faction's astromech units, it will make them function in their own way. What I'm curious about is will there be a possibility of having other ships that use Salvaged Droids in the future for Scum, and if there is, what ships will use them? :3

Several sources list versions of the Z-95 used astromechs rather than an onboard navigational computer. It could easily be a modification upgrade for the Z-95.

Other than that, not many ships used them. Several in the Clone Wars era, including the classic Naboo fighter (obviously) and ARC-170. Not sure either would be appropriate for Scum, though.

I'm 100% sure its why they have done it but not for the good guy reason. It's more that some astro combos could be over the top/op ( I hate that term ) when added to S&V ships

What I'd hope to see is a Salvaged Astromech upgrade that allows the use of any non-unique Astromech droid. That would keep the unique droids with the rebels but allow the scum to use the others. Of course then I also want to see the opposite working the other way.

I think there would probably be some OP combos with the illegal parts upgrades that scum can take and the Rebel droids, this was a good solution to separate them.

I'm 100% sure its why they have done it but not for the good guy reason. It's more that some astro combos could be over the top/op ( I hate that term ) when added to S&V ships

I suspect that faction flavour might have played a part, as well. Scum are getting a couple of cross-faction ships, but as a designer you'd want them to play very differently. Allowing Scum Y-wings to take things like R2 Astromechs would make them literally repainted Rebel ships.

Honestly...

A steel injection moulding tooling set cost about £250,000 to make the set up for a large kit in 2005.

(i worked for GW, a tank kit would cost about 250k to have the very precise steel stamping moulds made, they open up and slam shut hundreds of times an hour)

Now, i'm not sure if xwing minis are made in the same way as plastic tank kits but I imagine its a similar process of making a 3 up or 5 up master model and scaling it down with a pantograph to the size we play with today (judging by the pics in the rulebook)

I'd have thought that they would probably have a steel press cut to do several Y wings in one go (like seperate components for a kit). You could probably get 14 or so on your average size mould

That wont be a cheap process. Even removing the astromech from a Y wing would require a new steel mould if they use this process (whereas adding one would just require milling out more mould).

Cardstock on the other hand has no long development time, no costly trial and error.. you design it then print it.. colours might be a bit off first time or the cutters off cente but on the whole its less work than milling out industrial grade steel.

so they would have had a choice of 'design new Y wing' (which would cost thousands) or 'use the current one with a clearly modeled astromech and repaint it'..

Business no brainer.

THAT will be why S&V have astromechs on a purely business level. You can justify it in game lore later.

Even in the unlikely event that the ships are made by pouring resin into silicone moulds then making ONE ship is stil more cost effective than making two variants.

It's not like astromechs aren't freely available to anyone with the credits, but you don't want named droids being used by anyone but rebels.

When they started I'm sure they were not thinking about running out of ships so only planned on two sides, as they got to the design stage of wave four I imagine it hit them that they were running low on ships so we got S&V.

You can't have R2-D2 on scum ships for obvious reasons, I'm sure S&V will get some good ones though.

Far easier to work on game balance if they are seperate.

Far easier to keep the factions feeling different if they are seperate.

I would say the current astromechs were always designed as a rebel only card. Interestingly there is no reason for FFG to have made the astromechs "Rebel Only" unless they were thinking of giving an Imperial ship an astromech or they were always planning to make S&V.

I think originally S&V wasnt even on the radar then the game took off massively and it just made sense to have a third faction.

So, I had a few questions regarding Salvaged Astromechs.

1. Do we know what any of them do yet?

2. Do we know for certain they can't be used across factions? For instance, is it possible that there's a rule that says A ship with the Astromech icon can use normal or salvaged ones, but not the other way around?

3. I can't think of a third question, but numbered lists look stupid if you stop at 2.

1. No.

2. Why would this be different than any other type of upgrade? Just because they are "astromechs", they have different icons.

1. Yes - They pimp out your scum y-wings.

2. Given the icons are different - It's certain - rulebook page 19, upgrade cards have to have a matching Icon - the preview show us a different Icon. However, they could print a rebel ship with a salvaged astromech slot - or an upgrade card that grants such a slot.

3. I agree.

It's possible that FFG releases Salvaged Astromech versions for most, if not all, of the non-unique Astromechs. It would be interesting, though, if they're somewhat cheaper and less effective.