New player, ridiculous difficulty

By Agent.0.Fortune, in General Discussion

As a new purchaser of this game I expected a learning curve, in fact I enjoy a game that has a negative win factor. However after playing 8 solo sessions of this game (to learn the rules), I cannot imagine inflicting this on my fellow gamers.

For the record I have played a solo game with 2 characters against the default enemy azeroth. I have lost every game, very few close.

Many of the games I thought would be close were destroyed by the dice rolling mechanic. Random luck has on numerous occasion turned a potential victory to an absolute route.

I have GM'd several game plays, and spotted the critical failures as:

Failing to roll a 5-6 on 12 dice (including reroll attempts)

Failing to roll 4-6 on one die with 1 reroll attempt across 4 encounters.

Hero being "devoured" on one round due to encounter + mythos event.

I have looked at the "stats" for this game and "45%+" win rate does sound challenging, however it does not reconcile with my 0% results.

My results were more infuriating than challenging. I enjoy the Cthulu mythos and would love to see any recommendations to enhance player enjoyment of the game before I introduce it to my local gamers.

I initially had the same experience from Arkham Horror, but it really does take time to "learn the board", make smart moves, and efficiently beat the Ancient one.

This is not casual game… play and forget… this game take part of your life… even when you are experienced players you still can lose 50 50. so that what make this game cool and always fresh! The choice is yours…

The game really isn't for everyone. Part of the fun is understanding that Lovecraft mythos is about standing up to nearly insurmountable odds because...well... what else can you do when the world is ending?

But as Wrath231 pointed out, there are strategies that can be used. For instance:

Closing gates is much easier with an investigator with high Lore & Will.

City encounters usually require higher influence.

Wilderness & sea encounters usually require higher strength and observation.

Expeditions usually require strength, observation, and will.

Research encounter vary depending on the ancient one.

Using Charlie Kane to buy assets for all of your investigators helps immensely.

The sweet spot to actions vs mythos is found in a 4-player game. Some of the mysteries will be harder, but you will have more wiggle room between turns to make up for it. BUT at the same time, the amount of gates/monsters during surge will not increase.

The game is actually HARDEST with an uneven # of players. Two or 4 is ideal for a less challenging game. But imo, 4 is much easier.

NOTE: I'm not sure how or what you were using 12 dice in a single roll for. It's unfortunate you didn't get a success, but you might have some of the rules wrong. I'm not sure what combo of stats and assets would let you roll 12 dice. Any asset that adds to a roll does not stack with assets that add to the same type of roll. If they have additional bonuses (like re-rolling a die, or 6's count as 2 successes) you can use all of these bonuses, but the number of dice themselves to not stack.

Edited by Soakman

In case you want to give a transversal look at encounters and stats, you can check my Math of Eldritch Horror on BGG. At least it should give you hints on who to send where to do what. Plus, Azathoth is not so easy as it could seem, due to one of the core set mysteries. You could consider playing Yog, and ask the guys here what investigators are best with him.

Another point: play more characters. Go with 4. Should be somehow easier, especially since 4 can cover better the world map

Thank you, this the kind of advice I was looking for. I did not realize that differnt encounter types (portal, down, sea, etc) had differnt key attributes. I have been using random characters, so I don't always have the skill sets I need but this will help immensly in prioritizing targets.

The 12 dice was actually split between two characters each of which had a chance to win the game, the first with a 6 dice + reroll, and the second with 4 dice + reroll, so in total I threw 12 dice and if either would have rolled a single 5 or 6 I would have won the game, instead it allowed the Doom counter to tick too low to succeed the next turn.

I think after a good nights sleep, to shake-off that momentary frustration, I am ready to hit the board again, there really is a lot of fun in this game even when losing. It is all about expectations, I remember it was difficult to adjust to idea that my starting two adventurers are unlikely to be the two that finished, and occassionally it is necessary to burn a character out for the greater good, rather than spend precious turns recouperating.

Even the Devoured death I complained about eariler was pretty funny, Jim the musician had aquired the necronomicon, and had learned nearly every spell in the deck, and was orchestrating (pun intended) the salvation of mankind almost single handedly, when i aquired a "dark pact", and then drew the "tied to a dark purpose" mythos card,

The game really isn't for everyone. Part of the fun is understanding that Lovecraft mythos is about standing up to nearly insurmountable odds because...well... what else can you do when the world is ending?

But as Wrath231 pointed out, there are strategies that can be used. For instance:

Closing gates is much easier with an investigator with high Lore & Will.

City encounters usually require higher influence.

Wilderness & sea encounters usually require higher strength and observation.

Expeditions usually require strength, observation, and will.

Research encounter vary depending on the ancient one.

Using Charlie Kane to buy assets for all of your investigators helps immensely.

The sweet spot to actions vs mythos is found in a 4-player game. Some of the mysteries will be harder, but you will have more wiggle room between turns to make up for it. BUT at the same time, the amount of gates/monsters during surge will not increase.

The game is actually HARDEST with an uneven # of players. Two or 4 is ideal for a less challenging game. But imo, 4 is much easier.

NOTE: I'm not sure how or what you were using 12 dice in a single roll for. It's unfortunate you didn't get a success, but you might have some of the rules wrong. I'm not sure what combo of stats and assets would let you roll 12 dice. Any asset that adds to a roll does not stack with assets that add to the same type of roll. If they have additional bonuses (like re-rolling a die, or 6's count as 2 successes) you can use all of these bonuses, but the number of dice themselves to not stack.

In case you want to give a transversal look at encounters and stats, you can check my Math of Eldritch Horror on BGG. At least it should give you hints on who to send where to do what. Plus, Azathoth is not so easy as it could seem, due to one of the core set mysteries. You could consider playing Yog, and ask the guys here what investigators are best with him.

Another point: play more characters. Go with 4. Should be somehow easier, especially since 4 can cover better the world map

Edited by Agent.0.Fortune

Good luck with that :) And let us know.

In case you need specific advice against certain AOs, I suggest this article . The guy is really a strong EH player (had a chance to debate with him for several hours about strategy and I was impressed), and his strategies are effective

Another resource (to complement the in depth analysis that Julia did) is my write up on the most likely tests, outcomes etc for the various locations. It calls out how likely your are to get a clue from a research encounter, what the 2nd most likely type of tests are for various locations, etc.

Very true. Sorry, Richard, I didn't have at hand the link to your file, but actually it's also a seminal work that could help knowing risks and rewards of the game :)

Julia, no problem regarding the link.

Perhaps someday there will be a references sub-forum for EH like AH has and we can arrange to post materials/links there.

Yes, a subforum for this would be good. Easier to dig out the material you need, lighter the main forum for those who are not interested in this kind of stuff

Agent o Fortune, try the game with your friends. I find the shared experience of being pummelled by ancient horrors to be as much fun as a shared victory. You may find it similarly refreshing with the added social dimension. Definitely try an even number of players if possible, however!