I'm going to a tournament at the end of the month and thinking about fielding this list right here:

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/122874/soonwhisyorr

It's pretty self explanatory, i flank with both Whisper and Soontir and crush and block the middle with Yorr who takes the stress from the others. With gunner and fire control system, Whisper is just a beast. I can almost always take evade and then have evade, focus AND cloak on him when he needs to defend. Soontir with PTL doesn't need an introduction.

What do you think despite Han with Veteran Instincts counters it? What are the weaknesses? Would you change anything?

Thanks for the advice and cheers from Germany!

I think you need to read and meditate upon this...

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/98438-flight-school-lambda-101/

...before you try using your Ivory Space Cow as a bulldozer. It's a better flanker than you think...

If Yorr is to have a chance of keeping up with the other two then he really needs engine upgrade and advanced sensors.

Why Yorr, though? Fel wants his stress, and Whisper isn't that likely to get any. Wouldn't an Omicron with Vader/Captive/Ion Cannon be more useful?

Hmm you put the buzzsaw on the phantom instead of the shuttle and have the shuttle as a stress sink.

The only problem I see which is why I don't see too many buzzsaw phantoms is that phantoms cannot take the punishment that they can give. Sure they are the best in agility tanks with the 2 bonus agility from cloak (4 agility) plus evade. But all it takes is 4 lucky hits and phantom goes away. I don't see Hans with VI as much as a threat as I see Unique YT-1300 Pilot with Luke/Gunner a threat.

Why Yorr, though? Fel wants his stress, and Whisper isn't that likely to get any. Wouldn't an Omicron with Vader/Captive/Ion Cannon be more useful?

K- turn Soontir , remove stress, get 2 actions. Or just get two actions and remove stress (Ion canons)

K-turn Whisper withouth stress.

Take stress from rebel captive, or flechettes, or R3A2.

It is pretty good.

Marinealver, a phantom with dodge + focus (since you have gunner and FCS you are going to hit) with 4 agility is hell to hit, even for turretted gunners, and take into account that this can be done even with a barrel roll action (which means, full arc dodge). Only Luke as crew member puts the phantom at risk, and even then, it takes a lot of turns to take him down.

Why Yorr, though? Fel wants his stress, and Whisper isn't that likely to get any. Wouldn't an Omicron with Vader/Captive/Ion Cannon be more useful?

Fell will get his focus from his stress but then he can immediately give the stress to Yorr and keep the focus. It is a win-win. Boost PTL for Evade, stress and get Focus hand off the stress but keep the focus.

Also as I said when going against Phantoms I like to have stress dealers such as R3-A2 and Flechet Torpedoes. I have seen Bounty Hunter with Rebel Captive used to shut down Phantom cloaking so the stress sink is viable for Phantoms, as stress stops free actions to include Advanced Cloaking Device as stated in the FAQ.

Yup, as I said the Luke crew is more of a threat than a PS 11 Han Solo.

Why Yorr, though? Fel wants his stress, and Whisper isn't that likely to get any. Wouldn't an Omicron with Vader/Captive/Ion Cannon be more useful?

Fell will get his focus from his stress but then he can immediately give the stress to Yorr and keep the focus. It is a win-win. Boost PTL for Evade, stress and get Focus hand off the stress but keep the focus.

No he doesn't get the focus if you take it from Yorr. Read the text carefully.

Isn't this the squad the US national winner was flying?

Why Yorr, though? Fel wants his stress, and Whisper isn't that likely to get any. Wouldn't an Omicron with Vader/Captive/Ion Cannon be more useful?

Fell will get his focus from his stress but then he can immediately give the stress to Yorr and keep the focus. It is a win-win. Boost PTL for Evade, stress and get Focus hand off the stress but keep the focus.

No he doesn't get the focus if you take it from Yorr. Read the text carefully.

My bad, I was looking at the second paragraph of the FAQ for Push the limits. Good thing Yorr is optional not automatic. Definitely a FAQ rule if it wasn't for that it would never been questioned.

Well, FAQ does stand for 'frequently asked questions,' so clearly someone was questioning it.

Isn't this the squad the US national winner was flying?

Yup.

Net-listing?

Well, generally, a Falcon List would have a pretty good chance against this list...

I think anything can wreck this build if it's not flown properly. None of the pilots is in any way forgiving in mistakes.

Bad maneuver with Soontir? Didn't take the proper actions, suitable for that specific round? He's as good as dead.

Bad maneuver/decloak with Echo? She's dead.

Bad maneuver with the shuttle? Have fun spending the next 4 rounds turning around. Go back to cow-flying school 101.

Let me be clear, I'm not saying it's a bad list, quite the contrary, I think it's a fantastic list. It just won US nationals. It's just that I also consider it a very difficult list to fly properly and there are a lot of things that can go wrong because of unprovoked mistakes.

I am debating on running a Shuttle/Defender/Interceptor list to a tournament and I am scared that it's a list that may punish my mistakes too much.

Not really related, but the bad luck of getting a Damaged Engine on Soontir renders him absolutely useless (and yes, that's happened to me).

Isn't this the squad the US national winner was flying?

Yes.

This is probably the single most talked-about list at the moment. There has been tons of detailed discussion about it from both its creator and its opponents.

The best discussion I've heard is a podcast interview with the list's creator Rick Sidebotham HERE.

There's a really great post by Sidebotham (aka D4rkt3pl4r) where he talks about strategy HERE (scroll down to post #15).

There's a discussion from the opponent's perspective by the 2nd place player Jeff HERE - he was playing an amazing two-falcon build at the final table against this list.

We're all waiting for Team Covenant to post a video of the game and a video interview with Sidebotham.

My rendition of the Lambda, Squint, and Phantom is as follows:

====
KCCO (Kanos' Crowd Control Offensive)
====

98 points

Pilots
------

Kir Kanos (24)

"Whisper" (41)
TIE Phantom (32), Tactician (2), Fire-Control System (2), Veteran Instincts (1), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Captain Yorr (33)
Lambda-Class Shuttle (24), Ion Cannon (3), Darth Vader (3), Rebel Captive (3)

I had been running it for about a month before GenCon and when my buddies and I were there that weekend, we heard that there was someone doing really well with a Lambda, Squint, Phantom list so we went to watch. When he ended up winning, my friends looked at me and were like, "And you've been telling us that it isn't that great of a list, and that we could probably figure out a way to beat it. That ship list just won US Nationals."

The 98 Pts usually ensures my Phantom shoots first with ps 9 and re-cloaks. Yorr soaking up any stress put out by an opposing tactician or rebel captive. Kir gets an evade every time for the added hit except when he is at range 1 (then it is a focus). I use Yorr's ion canon to focus fire small ships with high ps with Whisper's tactician'd gun so that the opponent gets a stress and an ion then vader'd. Then when it is time for all of us to turn around, stress-free k-turns while the Lambda (turn 4 usually at this point) starts his long bank turns to get back into the fight.

It works really well against other Phantom lists, dual Decimator lists, dual YT lists. I have never flown it against a Tie Fighter swarm but I believe it'll turn out ok against that too.

I love soontir Fel but I wanted Vader and Captive on my Yorr-Lambda so he was just too expensive.

PS 11 Gunner Han Solo eats this list alive. Rick is a great pilot, but his losses at Nationals were to lists that out PSed Whisper. He discussed this on our Episode 5.

That is absolutely correct, EvilEd209.

Anything with a PS 10 or Higher wrecks the Phantom in the list and then the rest just crumbles without their heaviest hitter.

Isn't this the squad the US national winner was flying?

Yes.

This is probably the single most talked-about list at the moment. There has been tons of detailed discussion about it from both its creator and its opponents.

The best discussion I've heard is a podcast interview with the list's creator Rick Sidebotham HERE.

There's a really great post by Sidebotham (aka D4rkt3pl4r) where he talks about strategy HERE (scroll down to post #15).

There's a discussion from the opponent's perspective by the 2nd place player Jeff HERE - he was playing an amazing two-falcon build at the final table against this list.

We're all waiting for Team Covenant to post a video of the game and a video interview with Sidebotham.

And that's what I don't get.

Why does everyone automatically assume that if a squad wins a big tournament it must be a semibroken superlist that instantly should become the "new meta"? Is it an ingrained mentality from playing unbalanced games?

If this hadn't won GenCon it would have been completely dismissed as an average list. This assumption that there must be something giving it an edge that anyone picking it up can use is nuts. It's a normal list in a balanced game that was played by a very good player who through a combination of good luck and great skill won GenCon with it. It does something unusual (K-turning phantoms and PTL interceptors with their full dial) and that's its strength: it's not a netdeck and has the advantage of surprise. Why can't people accept the GenCon winner is simply a good player and the game is balanced?

Hell, if someone flew four TIE advanceds and won Gencon I bet TIE Advanced Swarm would suddenly be everywhere.

Thanks for the shout out Lagomorphia! Rick was a great interview!

Why Yorr, though? Fel wants his stress, and Whisper isn't that likely to get any. Wouldn't an Omicron with Vader/Captive/Ion Cannon be more useful?

It is almost solely for Rebel Captive and R3A2, or other stress abilities that could be used by high PS pilots to prevent Whisper from cloaking with ACD. When you play the phantom, that is usually one of thr biggest threats (besides Han + VI).

I was watching Heroes of the Storm on Twitch the other day, when I suddenly realized that there are no items in the game. At first I was put off, because how are players going to distinguish their builds from one another? And then I realized that Blizzard had done something special; they created a game where skill was the ultimate deciding factor, not the super special equipment that players get to toy around with. And then I was really put off, because I realized that I'd come to expect those toys to do all the work for me, and when those are no longer around to obscure my shortcomings I feel absolutely naked. It's kind of a scary thought when there's nothing else to blame but yourself, and I think we've lost sight of that. The ships, those are just a means to an end.

Fly casual or don't, but fly well. Look inward for a means to win, not outward.

Very good point, WW!

As well as this, "Why can't people accept the GenCon winner is simply a good player and the game is balanced?"

Yup, I currently don't think there is any list build out there that is "OP" or "Broke" but in the right hands, most any list could very well be quite formidable.

Props to all the Tournament Victors out there.

Thanks for all the interesting opinions and tips. I don't think it's the best list or broken or anything, i just played a few times on Vassal and the wins felt amazingly well and fun.

I also like that you have to fly it well in order to win, easy-mode lists just aren't fun to me.

My rendition of the Lambda, Squint, and Phantom is as follows:

====
KCCO (Kanos' Crowd Control Offensive)
====

98 points

Pilots
------

Kir Kanos (24)

"Whisper" (41)
TIE Phantom (32), Tactician (2), Fire-Control System (2), Veteran Instincts (1), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Captain Yorr (33)
Lambda-Class Shuttle (24), Ion Cannon (3), Darth Vader (3), Rebel Captive (3)

I had been running it for about a month before GenCon and when my buddies and I were there that weekend, we heard that there was someone doing really well with a Lambda, Squint, Phantom list so we went to watch. When he ended up winning, my friends looked at me and were like, "And you've been telling us that it isn't that great of a list, and that we could probably figure out a way to beat it. That ship list just won US Nationals."

The 98 Pts usually ensures my Phantom shoots first with ps 9 and re-cloaks. Yorr soaking up any stress put out by an opposing tactician or rebel captive. Kir gets an evade every time for the added hit except when he is at range 1 (then it is a focus). I use Yorr's ion canon to focus fire small ships with high ps with Whisper's tactician'd gun so that the opponent gets a stress and an ion then vader'd. Then when it is time for all of us to turn around, stress-free k-turns while the Lambda (turn 4 usually at this point) starts his long bank turns to get back into the fight.

It works really well against other Phantom lists, dual Decimator lists, dual YT lists. I have never flown it against a Tie Fighter swarm but I believe it'll turn out ok against that too.

I love soontir Fel but I wanted Vader and Captive on my Yorr-Lambda so he was just too expensive.

This actually looks really intruiging, i'm going to try it and check which version i like better. One thing that might favor the original list is that i often times don't get to shoot with Yorr due to him being outmanouvered. Then all his offensive upgrades are wasted this turn. But maybe when he gets to shoot it makes up for it... I'll have to test this.

Thanks a lot and keep the good advice coming!