So, let's talk about this on its own thread. Why doesn't The Rebellion make more use of Clone Wars era tech? Well the obvious reason is because they didn't have that stuff in the 1970s to draw from. But from a lore standpoint, what do you think? It's not any worse than what they have now, that much is for sure.

For the same reason the Saxons didn't use Roman-era technology. In many places it was a period of technological and economic decline.

Also, most of it was probably destroyed or hoarded by the Empire. Plus I doubt people who had seen battle droids maul their homes wanted to keep them around.

But honestly, I'd rather just assume the whole clone-wars era is still shrouded in mystery to the folks of the OT era, and the prequels are highly fictionalised accounts from a single persons fevered imagination. You know like if today our only record of WW2 was episodes of Dad's Army and Hogan's Heroes.

Well at first the Rebellion had Headhunters and Y-wings which were technically clone era technology. However remember that the Rebel Alliance is a break-away faction (hence the name Rebels) so they couldn't necessarily steal say Victory class Star Destroyers as Star Destroyers were crewed by 100 of crew (most of them) still loyal to the Empire. After all the Galactic Empire is the Old Republic just under a different name and the senate still existed until the Death Star was completed in which Moff Tarken was informed of the dissolution of the Imperial Senate which used to be called the Galactic Senate of the Republic.

Still they were able to steal smaller ships such as Nebulon-B Frigates and the Mon-Calmari Star cruisers were not warships but colony ships re-purposed for military operations. Sure the Empire did sell off some Victory class Star Destroyers but those were to CSA in which the Empire was certain of strong diplomatic ties and common goals.

Another thing about new technology is that it tends to be more temperamental than old technology not because everything was better back in the day but because older technology has been sifted from the technology that was not as reliable from that era. So that is why some of the Starfighters such as X-wings and Y-wings tend to be more sturdy than the Tie Fighters.

War droids were outlawed and destroyed and using them would not have helped their popular image I'm sure they didn't want to be associated with the separatists.

And any republic ships went to the empire for the most part and got junked as they built star destroyers and developed tie fighters.

Plus if a ship's not being produced anymore spare parts become harder to find.

They used old junkers because anything was better than nothing but they replaced the z with the x-wing as soon as incom offered them and replaced the y with the b-wing for the same reason.

I think there is also the angle that the Empire takes over a *massive* area of space with total control rather than the previous system where a governor rules an area with autonomy under the republic.

So for example whereas Naboo would have made its own starfighters and defended itself its now ruled by the Empire, has imperial troops garrisoned on it and a TIE squadron or two there.

TIE fighters might be not as good as a Naboo fighter *but* the Empire needs *thousands* of them from Seinar, hence they are cheap, mass poduced and standardised.

In some of the west end games back story the Empire is slowly incorporating independant ship builders and employing them to build for them... the Incom designers do a runner with the plans for the Xwing and join the rebellion... otherwise you might have seen them in small numbers with the Empire.

In 'real world' terms, clearly you need to give each side a recognisable look. Using the old WWII metaphor (as lucas used wwii dogfight and dambusters footage when mocking up 'a new hope') the allies and the axis had very different paint schemes and to a degree recognisable iconic aircraft (stuka, spitfire.. even a layman can tell the difference) so the viewer can go 'oh look thats a bad guy' instantly. clearly the desgin differences in the real world were due to limited production facilities in seperate countries working on different design goals... when you up the scale to 'galactic' its trickier to have a reason why the rebels/allies are not using stuff that is the same as the axis/empire... especially when in our world 'rebels' quite often use captured stuff of the occupying power.

I suppose the only other example is cold war conflicts where quite often 'rebel' forces were supplied russian kit by either the CiA or the Russians themselves (afghanistan/vietnam).

It's like terrorists and the use of the ak-47, they don't use it because it's the best AR on the market they use it because it's cheap easy to get a hold of a and requires no expert maintenance.

Heck even I could get my hands on one if I wanted, the rifles cheap enough it's getting your hands on the bullets that costs you.

Ever read 'guns of the south', the premise in that sci fi story is that you can make a functioning AK and maintain it using American Civil War era technology....

Ever read 'guns of the south', the premise in that sci fi story is that you can make a functioning AK and maintain it using American Civil War era technology....

You know...I get a little uncomfortable around "South Wins" fiction. It's a bit like "Nazi's win" fiction, except without the underlying suggestion that this turn of events is a really bad thing...

Not getting at you personally Gadge, just saying. As for your comment, it seems like it could be plausible.

Ever read 'guns of the south', the premise in that sci fi story is that you can make a functioning AK and maintain it using American Civil War era technology....

You know...I get a little uncomfortable around "South Wins" fiction. It's a bit like "Nazi's win" fiction, except without the underlying suggestion that this turn of events is a really bad thing...

Not getting at you personally Gadge, just saying. As for your comment, it seems like it could be plausible.

But the rednecks I buy moonshine from assured me the south will rise again, I presume it'll take viagra or something.

Ever read 'guns of the south', the premise in that sci fi story is that you can make a functioning AK and maintain it using American Civil War era technology....

You know...I get a little uncomfortable around "South Wins" fiction. It's a bit like "Nazi's win" fiction, except without the underlying suggestion that this turn of events is a really bad thing...

Not getting at you personally Gadge, just saying. As for your comment, it seems like it could be plausible.

If i recall correctly the Union still wins, it just has a very dark time where its massively undergunned until it can make its own copies of the rifle.

It's no neo-nazi feel good novel

I don't read stuff like that.

It's a long time since i've read it but the premise is South Afican white supremacists from the future travel back to the ACW to try and influence the war so that the South win and slavery is retained.

I've already spoilered it but suffice it to say it doesnt end up well for them

Hmm having looked at the wiki page for it I'm not sure if the plot resolution was as clear cut as that.

I'm sure i remembered it being an ending where the 'real' situation remains the same. Oh well.

So, let's talk about this on its own thread. Why doesn't The Rebellion make more use of Clone Wars era tech? Well the obvious reason is because they didn't have that stuff in the 1970s to draw from. But from a lore standpoint, what do you think? It's not any worse than what they have now, that much is for sure.

They do....Y-wings and Z 95's.

Y-wings were space superiority fighters in the original back story, well until Lucas wanted to make more money off new toys from the prequel trash

So, let's talk about this on its own thread. Why doesn't The Rebellion make more use of Clone Wars era tech? Well the obvious reason is because they didn't have that stuff in the 1970s to draw from. But from a lore standpoint, what do you think? It's not any worse than what they have now, that much is for sure.

They do....Y-wings and Z 95's.

Y-wings were space superiority fighters in the original back story, well until Lucas wanted to make more money off new toys from the prequel trash

Yeah too bad we couldn't edit the starships in episode 3 to Z-95s and Victory Class Star Destroyers.

Hmm having looked at the wiki page for it I'm not sure if the plot resolution was as clear cut as that.

I'm sure i remembered it being an ending where the 'real' situation remains the same. Oh well.

Having read the novel and others by the author, I don't think that you would find a "Go South" mentality. In another series by the author the south wins by more normal means and this leads to slave rebellions, more war, and eventually a Hitler-esque character leading the south until it is ultimately conquered. Not pro-slavery or pro-nazi in my experience.

Yeah it wasnt the feeling i got from the book but i read it in the 90s so my memory of it is hazy.. i was a little worried i might have inadvetantly endorsed a 'white power' book but was sure i'd never have read that sort of thing in the first place

I do remember it being a very good story though and hence why i mentioned it when we were talking about guerilla forces using easy to maintain 'low tech' kit.

I just recalled the theory that an AK47 could be made by an ACW foundry/armoury

So, let's talk about this on its own thread. Why doesn't The Rebellion make more use of Clone Wars era tech? Well the obvious reason is because they didn't have that stuff in the 1970s to draw from. But from a lore standpoint, what do you think? It's not any worse than what they have now, that much is for sure.

But it is, at least the way I see it.

Leftover from the Clone Wars are the CIS and Republic equipment. The CIS droid equipment the now Empire has been fighting for three years, and they won such a landslide victory over the CIS at the end of the war because they developed incredibly good anti-droid army technology: that's why droid armies of a significant scale die about after 19 BBY. The early Rebels do get some old CIS tech but so much of it was fully automated that there's only so much they can convert and use. That's most the CIS stuff out apart from the wrecks the Rebels can get working again and the Separatist Holdouts the Rebels recruit.

That leaves the Republic stuff. The Empire doesn't use it for two reasons: because they've developed better military gear and the heavy Clone Wars stuff have high operational costs and while great for war is not nearly as practical for policing the galaxy as a ton of TIE fighters are. Plus, as the Empire cycles the ARC-170s, V-19 Torrents and Alpha-3s out of service they're not just dumping them on crates with "insurgents steal me" on them.

The Rebels do have some near Clone Wars stuff: the Z-95 Headhunter's been being updated and rereleased for years and the Y-wing's a solid warhorse. But the Z-95 and the Y-wing aren't hard to get because it's not the Empire using them.

The Z-95 the galaxy is full off (they're commercially available) and so's the Y-wing: the BTL-B was a Clone Wars fighter bomber but the Empire declined to buy the BTL-S3 after the Clone Wars ended and thus Koensayr sold the massive amount of Y-wings they had to planetary defence forces and the like, so the galaxy's full of them too. Pirates (and the Scum Faction) have Z-95s and Y-wings: these two ships are really not uncommon.

The X-wing was originally intended as an Imperial heavy craft for engagements with the growing Rebel threat, following the same line of thinking as the TIE advanced x1 and ultimately the TIE defender. It completely outclasses the Clone Wars stuff from a couple of decades back. The Y-wing's been heavily refitted to the point where no two are the same yet still struggles to keep up and Z-95 use has dropped massively by then. The X-wing is state of the art. For warfare it outclasses the TIE fighter which outclasses the Clone Wars stuff. It is better than the ARC-170s, much moreso.

Incom, however, defected, handing the prototypes and plans over to the Rebels. This is a galaxywide rebellion and the Rebels have manufacturing ability (hence being able to make the X-wings) and have a few shipyards (Mon Calamari for example) so they can make their own ships in small numbers, especially later on.

And they do. The A-wing and B-wing are prototype Rebel homebrews, designed and manufactured by the Alliance.

There is also the whole problem of Star Wars (in it's original form) being a morality saga set in a fantastical world (That just happened to have a space/machine theme instead of a medieval/magic theme), not a serious science-fiction setting, so if you are pedantic enough you can find holes in literally everything, because it was never meant to hold up under the scrutiny of realism.

I mean come on: The Ebonhawk can do anything the Millenium Falcon can, 3000 years earlier. That some serious technical stagnation. Unless quirky design really is the most important thing to people in the star wars universe, trumping all else.

"Look! I've found a NEW way of shaping existing light-freighter technology into a slightly different looking disc shape! GIVE ME YOUR MONEY!"

Exactly, it was flash gordon inspired space opera with a 'used' look about it.

Lucas constantly contradicts himself, claiming he always planned nine movies while at the time it was clear it was a stand alone film.

Only when it was a massive success did someone say 'hey george, do star wars 2!'

it's called 'episode IV' on the 'crawl' to be reminiscent on saturday morning sci fi serials that would run forever and usually have to recap what happened last episode as they would start off 'in media res'.... slap bang in the action.

I mean come on: The Ebonhawk can do anything the Millenium Falcon can, 3000 years earlier. That some serious technical stagnation. Unless quirky design really is the most important thing to people in the star wars universe, trumping all else.

Against KoTOR era ships. I sure wouldn't want to fly a Hammerhead against a Star Destroyer.

Also bear in mind the KotoR games have the wrong aesthetic, the comics they are based on are far far more primitive but they changed it to look more like the movies for commercial reasons, in the original comics they were hollowing out large creatures and converting them into space vessels.

So, let's talk about this on its own thread. Why doesn't The Rebellion make more use of Clone Wars era tech? Well the obvious reason is because they didn't have that stuff in the 1970s to draw from. But from a lore standpoint, what do you think? It's not any worse than what they have now, that much is for sure.

This is an easy one that was revealed in the latest X-Wing Rebel blue print book =] The Rebels did use the BTL-B, ARC-170, Clone Gunships(heavily moded), and Head Hunters. They kept the Gunships as well as the head hunters. Head Hunters were used in areas that the Rebs didnt want the Empire too know they were opperating in.

BTL-Bs were hacked up, turrets where used on Reb bases. BTL-A4 and S3 are from the looks of it close to being Rise of the Empire craft more so than Clone Wars era because of there late entry.

ARC-170 required to many crew to run it, to much time and money to maintaine, and the tools for repairing them were hard to come by. So they junked them for the most part. In the end the BTL-A4 is better at every job the ARC-170 was used for. A4 for a long time during the Dark Times was the Rebs most advanced fighter. Besides its size and targeting as well as ecm /eccm capabilities the A4 carried twin Heavy Laser cannons, and by this time they had advanced target linking capabilities, they could manipluate the path of the laser after emition without the cannons moving. While the ARC-170 only carried Medium Laser cannons and had to have the hardware designed so the ends of the barrel moved so it could computer target link fire at craft.

You rarley if ever saw the Rebs using the Jedi / republic Interceptor because its design is to specialized / has major flaws.

*Cant fire much without overheating

*Has one of the lowest ranged scanning equipment out of all SW craft of every SW era, its all packed with the astromech. If the Astromech is destroyed it has ZERO scanners.

*It has no ECM / ECCM, unless provided by astromech. I have never heard of astros having any feature like this.

*It has a low class targeting computer (this is the only attribute IM not sure of. The ones listed above came from SW CV.

The only people that could make the most out of this Interceptors were Jedi and people born with wings that have a perfect feel for this craft, Anyone else including Vets that have flown it alot have a high chance of dying more so than in a standard TIE Fighter.

*

TIE fighters might be not as good as a Naboo fighter *but* the Empire needs *thousands* of them from Seinar, hence they are cheap, mass poduced and standardised.

I can confirm that the Reg TIE Fighter is superior overall than fighters that came before it. When I say this please dont read this with an elitest tone. If you watch the EP 1 dog fights youll notice that the N-1 have terrible roll rates and turning radius compaired to TIE Fighter and or other craft that appear in later ep. It also has ZERO computer target-link fire capabilites ergo can only fire lasers forward.

Going by SW CV it is also missing ECM / ECCM capabilities unless astros provide it. JFYI I cant be sure on this last bit because I dont read about it /much ALTHOUGH I do love the look of most Naboo craft esp the Police Patrol fighter which pretty much looks like a N-1 but with blue instead of yellow.

Ever read 'guns of the south', the premise in that sci fi story is that you can make a functioning AK and maintain it using American Civil War era technology....

You know...I get a little uncomfortable around "South Wins" fiction. It's a bit like "Nazi's win" fiction, except without the underlying suggestion that this turn of events is a really bad thing...

Not getting at you personally Gadge, just saying. As for your comment, it seems like it could be plausible.

Speaking of which in the 2nd book because North America is split the Southerners team up with the British and French forces while us Northerners team up with Italy and Germany =/ And then the Southerners burn down the White House

I dont rember if this is WW1 or 2.

Wait the English team up with the slave owners?

We abolished slavery 30 years before the civil war even happened.

So, let's talk about this on its own thread. Why doesn't The Rebellion make more use of Clone Wars era tech? Well the obvious reason is because they didn't have that stuff in the 1970s to draw from. But from a lore standpoint, what do you think? It's not any worse than what they have now, that much is for sure.

That leaves the Republic stuff. The Empire doesn't use it for two reasons: because they've developed better military gear and the heavy Clone Wars stuff have high operational costs and while great for war is not nearly as practical for policing the galaxy as a ton of TIE fighters are. Plus, as the Empire cycles the ARC-170s, V-19 Torrents and Alpha-3s out of service they're not just dumping them on crates with "insurgents steal me" on them.

Well, at least since Vader started force choking the guys doing it...

So, let's talk about this on its own thread. Why doesn't The Rebellion make more use of Clone Wars era tech? Well the obvious reason is because they didn't have that stuff in the 1970s to draw from. But from a lore standpoint, what do you think? It's not any worse than what they have now, that much is for sure.

This is an easy one that was revealed in the latest X-Wing Rebel blue print book =] The Rebels did use the BTL-B, ARC-170, Clone Gunships(heavily moded), and Head Hunters. They kept the Gunships as well as the head hunters. Head Hunters were used in areas that the Rebs didnt want the Empire too know they were opperating in.

BTL-Bs were hacked up, turrets where used on Reb bases. BTL-A4 and S3 are from the looks of it close to being Rise of the Empire craft more so than Clone Wars era because of there late entry.

ARC-170 required to many crew to run it, to much time and money to maintaine, and the tools for repairing them were hard to come by. So they junked them for the most part. In the end the BTL-A4 is better at every job the ARC-170 was used for. A4 for a long time during the Dark Times was the Rebs most advanced fighter. Besides its size and targeting as well as ecm /eccm capabilities the A4 carried twin Heavy Laser cannons, and by this time they had advanced target linking capabilities, they could manipluate the path of the laser after emition without the cannons moving. While the ARC-170 only carried Medium Laser cannons and had to have the hardware designed so the ends of the barrel moved so it could computer target link fire at craft.

You rarley if ever saw the Rebs using the Jedi / republic Interceptor because its design is to specialized / has major flaws.

*Cant fire much without overheating

*Has one of the lowest ranged scanning equipment out of all SW craft of every SW era, its all packed with the astromech. If the Astromech is destroyed it has ZERO scanners.

*It has no ECM / ECCM, unless provided by astromech. I have never heard of astros having any feature like this.

*It has a low class targeting computer (this is the only attribute IM not sure of. The ones listed above came from SW CV.

The only people that could make the most out of this Interceptors were Jedi and people born with wings that have a perfect feel for this craft, Anyone else including Vets that have flown it alot have a high chance of dying more so than in a standard TIE Fighter.

*

TIE fighters might be not as good as a Naboo fighter *but* the Empire needs *thousands* of them from Seinar, hence they are cheap, mass poduced and standardised.

I can confirm that the Reg TIE Fighter is superior overall than fighters that came before it. When I say this please dont read this with an elitest tone. If you watch the EP 1 dog fights youll notice that the N-1 have terrible roll rates and turning radius compaired to TIE Fighter and or other craft that appear in later ep. It also has ZERO computer target-link fire capabilites ergo can only fire lasers forward.

Going by SW CV it is also missing ECM / ECCM capabilities unless astros provide it. JFYI I cant be sure on this last bit because I dont read about it /much ALTHOUGH I do love the look of most Naboo craft esp the Police Patrol fighter which pretty much looks like a N-1 but with blue instead of yellow.

But... its not all about the perormance. I'm claiming TIE fighters are 'cheap' as they have no hyperdrives, astromech ports and lack even basic life support meaning the pilot needs a space suit (source: west end games RPG)

Compared to a Y wing let alone an X wing its quite limited.